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Douglas S
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236 messages and the thread died. What happened?

What happened with the August 4th auction?

galen Carter-Jeffrey
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I would like to know too.
Surya Van Lierde is pure Eurosnoot and proud of it!
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I guess we might get to know more next week?
galen Carter-Jeffrey
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We'll know when pirates! is released.
C Lloyd
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Hah! Good one. :p
Robert Cannon
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Duglis wrote:
236 messages and the thread died. What happened?

What happened with the August 4th auction?



We await anxiously the results of the auction.

So, is 236 messages the longest thread in BGG?
Luca Iennaco
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robcannonsoftware wrote:
So, is 236 messages the longest thread in BGG?

No. For example, the recent "microbadges" thread has 488 now.
Marshall P.
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robcannonsoftware wrote:


So, is 236 messages the longest thread in BGG?


No, occationally werewolf games run into the 2000's. This is the longest one and it ran 3499 posts.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/79907
Douglas S
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Ok. It is Monday. What happened Friday?
Jeff M
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Duglis wrote:
Ok. It is Monday. What happened Friday?

Possibly the wait is because the bank has one business day to reject even a winning bid, which may mean we'll hear something tomorrow?
Douglas S
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That's possible. You're right.
Joshua Ostrander
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Well its Tuesday now... I still haven't heard anything. The suspense is killing me! Eagle is(was) won of my favorite up-and-coming game companies, I hope whoever bought it will somehow continue to work with Glenn and Keith (although that is probably a long shot.)
Dominic Crapuchettes
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Eagle Games » Forums » News
Re: Eagle Games financial trouble rumours
That Eagle games owed at least $1 million to various parties is not speculation. They owe money to us (North Star Games), to Uberplay, to Donahoe Digital (the texas hold-em computer game), to several manufacturers, to several banks, to personal investors, to most of every website and magazine that they put ads in, and etc.

Where Eagle goes in the future is speculation. Not even Glenn knows that right now. He is trying his hardest not to lose control of the company but his options became very limited once the house of cards started to fall on all sides of him.

It looks like The Age of Empire III will come out but I am not sure who will be the publisher. The game is pretty good. I played it with Rick Thornquist and Glenn in February at Toy Fair. Pirates is still a distant dream. At least it was in February. The only game right now that might turn into Pirates was developed by the same group that developed Bootleggers. The last I heard, it still needed work.

Keith will still be running the webstore. I thought it was to try and re-coup some of the money that he is owed but I am not sure of his goals now that I read his earlier posts.

Chuckerman, one of the manufacturers that Eagle owes money to, made the first bid on the Eagle assets. I have a feeling that his company will manufacture Age of Empire III but I don't know what publishing label it will be under. Even after declaring bankruptcy, I don't think there is any law that would keep Glenn from starting a new board game company with another name. He has already been thinking about new company names.

I wish I knew more. I think we'll all just have to wait to see what Glenn decides to do. As for the money that is owed by Eagle, no reasonable person can see how everything will ever be repaid. Only in Glenn's dream world is this ever a possibility.

A lot of us have been hurt by Eagle's lack of transperancy. Glenn is a sales person. To him, the ends justifies the means. And everything would have been ok if what he expected/hoped actually happened. Unfortunately, things did not go as he expected/hoped and his untruthful way of dealing with people meant many people were not able to make their own decisions about the risks involved.

For instance, Wits & Wagers was not being shipped for over 1 month before North Star Games was informed about it by someone else. When I asked Glenn about it at Toy Fair, he adamently said that was not true and that games were being shipped. Five months later we learned for certain that games were still not getting shipped. Why? Because Eagle never paid the manufacturer for them (or the shipping/warehousing company for that matter). This was the final straw for us. We could not continue doing business if our games were not getting shipped. We finally had to send Eagle a termination notice outlining the many ways in which they had breached our contract.

Now North Star Games is teetering on bankruptcy. If Glenn had been honest with us (on this an 50 other accounts), we could have prepared better for this situation. Our survival is now 100% determined by whether we can raise money over the next few months. We have several interested parties, but our time horizon might be too short for the amount of money that we need to raise.

Anyhow, this is my version of what I've seen take place. I'm sure the official Glenn version will come out at some point in the future. I just hope it comes with many appologies for his lack of honesty (with himself and with others) to the people and other companies that he worked with. Glenn is still the same likable person that he always was. He will pick up the pieces and find a way to make things work again. But for now, things are really tough for him. His whole world came crashing down and there was nothing he could do to stop it. I imagine he will continue to hang low until he picks the pieces back up again.
Jefferson Delugachecci
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domcrap wrote:
That Eagle games owed at least $1 million to various parties is not speculation. They owe money to . . .[removed others] every website and magazine that they put ads in, and etc.


Thats probably what Aldie was referring to . . .
galen Carter-Jeffrey
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Finally we get the whole story.

I wonder why he wouldnt pay the printers for Wits & Wagers.
Gavin Wynford-Jones
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galeninjapan wrote:
Finally we get the whole story.

I wonder why he wouldnt pay the printers for Wits & Wagers.


More likely, he *couldn't* pay if there were cash flow problems. It's an easy trap to fall in to, but almost impossible to get out of, without outside help.

Gavin
Dominic Crapuchettes
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galeninjapan wrote:
Finally we get the whole story.

I wonder why he wouldnt pay the printers for Wits & Wagers.


This is not the whole story. To be honest, this is just 1 person's viewpoint on what has taken place and I learn more continually (like from an email 5 minutes ago of another party that Eagle owes money to). I should also be clear that this is not an official statement from North Star Games. This is simply my personal opinion.

Eagle did not pay the printers because they were running out of cash. Glenn would have paid his debts if he had the cash to do so. Instead, he had to pick and choose at which were the most important debts to payoff in order to keep the company alive.
Last edited on 2006-08-08 14:01:19 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Tim Myers
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galeninjapan wrote:
Finally we get the whole story.

I wonder why he wouldnt pay the printers for Wits & Wagers.


My guess would be that they were cash straped. They may have owed the printer money for past products, along with others. The printer decided he could not extend them credit or maybe the printer wanted cash up front. Only the people at Eagle know what happened and what the circumstances were.

I worked for a Paintball store and field several years ago and I know that we owed a paintball manufacturer big bucks. We had to make a deal with them and prepay our order plus some of what we owed to get paintballs. I think that we ended up getting a loan from the store/field owners father to cover our order.

I hope that things work out for everybody involved but in a situtation like this there are bound to be other people and companies that get hurt. The consumers are also hurt because they are deprived of the products that the bankrupt company could have produced.

My kids and I have several Eagle games that we enjoy and hopefully we will be able to enjoy some of the games that they had planned on producing (picked up and made by another company, we hope).
Horatio BenGeddi
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Wanting to much to fast! Glenn should have stuck to what brought him and Eagle initial fame. Big Box Games with great production quality. Then moved a little bit into the computer conversions and others (euro-like). He should have skipped the fads and the great diversity. Time would have brought that. To much to fast!
Stephen Groves
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That would be too much too fast. Yeah, I'm being anal but the correct spelling adds emphasis.

Eagle games really seemed to be getting better and better after many production issues in their earlier games that should have been avoided. I have Bootleggers which I rate as a good game and theme (why haven't I played this much? Too many good games I guess) but having to email them for the card and extra money missing from the box demonstrated a lack of detail(although their reply was swift and top notch). Also the hidden value of the trucks is minorly annoying and something you'd change if you playtested a copy. But their recent releases, from reading the Geek, do not appear to have these issues.

One thing I found interesting was the price of Railroad Tycoon in New Zealand. It was retailing for $90 here while other games with similar production cost well over $100. The distribution deal they had was good for the consumer but didn't work for the bottom line it seems.
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domcrap wrote:
A lot of us have been hurt by Eagle's lack of transperancy. Glenn is a sales person. To him, the ends justifies the means. And everything would have been ok if what he expected/hoped actually happened. Unfortunately, things did not go as he expected/hoped and his untruthful way of dealing with people meant many people were not able to make their own decisions about the risks involved.


I was content to leave this thread alone until I read the lenghty post by Dominic... who seems to have a thing about blaming others for his situation... such as (from his profile):

Quote:
My introduction to the wonderful world of European games in 1998 helped me escape the wretched professional Magic curcuit world where people cheated and talked trash behind people's back.


And...

Quote:
When the commerical salmon fishing industry crashed in Alaska, I decided I would try my hand at starting a board game company.


All I know from your assault on Glenn Drover is that you accuse him of your own lack of business skills. No less than three times you call him dishonest. Even to the the point of blaming Eagle Games for your own business nearing bankruptcy...

Quote:
Now North Star Games is teetering on bankruptcy.


And I suppose we are to assume that your version is accurate because of this little bit of underhanded spin-

Quote:
Anyhow, this is my version of what I've seen take place. I'm sure the official Glenn version will come out at some point in the future. I just hope it comes with many appologies for his lack of honesty


Bottom line Dom, I don't trust you or your version. I've raised kids and owned businesses that had as many as 60 employees and one thing I know for a fact is that when someone is spreading the mud about someone else to the degree that you did here on BGG, then the only person I am positive is lying is the mudslinger.

Frankly, I don't think we needed to hear all this crap, and crap is what it is. Grow up and deal with what hundreds of thousands of other small businesspeople deal with every day. Shit happens. Some bad, some good. If you're not prepared for the bad, you'll fail. Hell, sometimes you'll fail when you are prepared for the bad stuff. That's life.

This thread is a frickin' idiotic train wreck anyway... a bunch of bloodthirsty rubberneckers standing around and surveying the ruins and counting the bodies and then you come along and declare that it's all "his" fault.

Whatever really happened to Eagle Games it's certainly none of our business to begin with and your little blame game adds nothing but more useless and misleading non-information.
galen Carter-Jeffrey
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I think Dom's story hold some amount of truth is becuase it is the only version of the story we have. I don't see Glen giving us any info.
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galeninjapan wrote:
I think Dom's story hold some amount of truth is becuase it is the only version of the story we have. I don't see Glen giving us any info.


Actually Galen, that's not true. Drover posted earlier on this thread and gave a brief overview of the pc game woes and collapse... and he managed to do it without directly blaming anyone else or declaring that it was dishonesty on his business associates part that caused the failure.

Just because this Dominic guy gives a detailed black PR job on another person, it doesn't make his story true. But that is really my point... I don't see the value of any of this and it strikes me as something that isn't anyone's business except the people involved.

One further point, sort of off topic - in my business life I had my share of failures and successes and at no point did I feel obligated to reveal to anyone the reasons for a good or a bad outcome. Even my creditors were given only the information they required to do a risk assessment and that was it.

Actually, I'm sorry now I posted on the thread. It brought it back up to the top page.
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Benvenuto Cellini wrote:
I read your ill informed blog ‘Blood on the Gaming Highway’.

Before rushing to defend Glenn Drover, you should know that the ‘Blood on the Gaming Highway’ is not his own, but that of many other individuals who fell prey to EXACTLY what Dominic described in his post. He was being extremely civil considering the circumstances.


To be accurate Kyle, nowhere did I defend Glenn Drover. Instead I responded to an attack on him by an individual who is angry with him and, in my view, blaming him for all that's gone wrong in his own world.

In addition, I asserted my personal view that dirty laundry such as is between you, Dominic and Glenn is uglier when displayed publically than when it's dealt with quietly and out of view.

Quote:
But for some of the other people who lost their life savings and may now have to declare bankruptcy through no fault of their own, it is a tragedy.


BS. Life ain't fair and neither is business. Anytime people decide to strike out on their own and fail at it it's because they screwed up too. Boo-hooing and pointing fingers at "that bad man" on BGG just points up the fact that the accuser should have kept his day job. When you lose your money it is your fault. You're the one who put it there to begin with.

Quote:
What I find equally disturbing about the internet… is the number of people who can immediately become an ‘expert’ on events. You do not know any of the facts. You are in fact… talking out of your ass.


What I find humorous about the internet is how convenient a place it is for people who can't take responsibility for their own errors to talk out of their ass and blame their lot in life on other people.

Quote:
Your personal attack on Dominic...


Here's the deal Kyle - Dominic (who I don't know) calls Glenn (who I don't know) a liar and a dishonest person and blames him for the reason he is now going to go broke. This is a public forum... if someone is going to come on here and start doing a negative spin job on an individual who has been an important fixture in the world this website exists to talk about, then I not only have a right to call BS on his attacks, but to indicate why I suspect they're intended to distract attention away from his personal failure regarding his own business and the reasons the whole house of cards may tumble.... which brings me to:

Quote:
Just because you have had a lot of ‘business’ experience does not mean that you know all of the details. (Oh… and you raised kids… wtf does that have to do with anything ?


Simply that experience with people who work together and experience with raising children can give an obaervant individual a sense of who is and isn't lying. Of course, you have to pay attention, if you don't your kids might turn out to be criminals and your business partners could steal all your money.

Quote:
You have been trying to hide your own prurient interest in these events...


Sex hasn't been mentioned once here. Unless you're using it as an analogy for enjoying the train wreck as opposed to having a vested interest in the success or failure of publishers in the board gaming industry. Since my history in the broader business of games goes back to the early 1980's and involves publishing, manufacturing and retailing of games I do feel a real connection to the industry that goes beyond being a gamer. It's my personal view that Dominic was out of line and whether what he says is or isn't true it has no value unless viewed in full context. Since I don't expect Glenn to respond it's unlikely any of us here on BGG will see the full context.

Quote:
I am amazed at the amount of time and effort you have put into posting here and on your blog about this event.


I type fast. It takes maybe 10-20 minutes to respond in detail. In addition, I like games as much as you do so my interest in responding to what I view as a one-sided attack on a major figure in our shared realm is not really suprising.

Quote:
How terrible for Dominic to describe what happened! How magnanimous of you to intervene!


What Dominic described was how pissed off he is at Glenn and then accused him of being a liar and a dishonest person. Whether that's what really happened is, I think, the whole reason I responded... I consider it distasteful and uncivil to attack someone that way on BGG and since it's unlikely we'll all ever know - or really even want to know - the whole story he should have hired an attorney and sued instead of coming here and mewling about how horrible someone else is.

I could be off-base, it's true. Maybe Glenn Drover is a terrible liar, as Dominic claims. I was particularly struck by Dominic's rational that because Drover is a salesman, it follows that lying and deception come easily... as if the only people who are dishonest are sales people. The whole attack he made on Drover reminded me of listening to some sad sack at a bar carrying on about why his wife leaving him, his boss firing him and the police chasing him are everybody elses fault.

If you guys who are affected by Eagle's demise don't want people like me having an opinion about your personal business then my suggestion is to keep it personal and not air it out here on BGG.
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