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A Touch of Evil: The Coast» Forums » General

Subject: Card backs darker than base game rss

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Patrick
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I mean hell... the publishers of 7 wonders released a fix of the 3rd age cards that were printed just slightly differently. And that is a barely noticeable difference. Not a glaring difference like this.

I expect more from a company with such high quality components like FFP.
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Rich Moore
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Yes, I think these later pics are more reflective of what it looks to the eye. And yes, it's still obvious which are the Coast cards.

In the past, there's been variation as well with ToE, but not this extreme. But it really only annoys me for the secrets...and then, it's mildly annoying for the secrets (as with the OP).

Did we ever get a suggestion on types of sleeves to use? Seems like a good suggestion, at least for the secrets.
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Chris Wood
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Yes all my cards are darker too.
 
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Patrick
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This game takes CCG sized(silver from FFG). As does all FFP games if memory serves.
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Jack
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corkysru wrote:
I mean hell... the publishers of 7 wonders released a fix of the 3rd age cards that were printed just slightly differently. And that is a barely noticeable difference. Not a glaring difference like this.


And I found the 7W difference to be glaring. Sheesh.
 
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Patrick
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senorcoo wrote:
corkysru wrote:
I mean hell... the publishers of 7 wonders released a fix of the 3rd age cards that were printed just slightly differently. And that is a barely noticeable difference. Not a glaring difference like this.


And I found the 7W difference to be glaring. Sheesh.

In all honestly if I enjoyed the game more I might notice/care more.
 
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Nate T.
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horfrost3 wrote:
I contacted FFP and this is the response I got:

QUOTE wrote:
Hello Joanna,

We understand your concern about color variation in card backs. As gamers, ourselves, this always bothered us when playing our favorite games and having cards not match. We've made it a priority with our manufacturer in China. However, we've come to realize that there are always color variations in printing that cannot be helped. The variation shown in your photos is within the range of variation that we get in the printing process. I'm sorry for the difference in tint that you're seeing. Card replacements would also have similar variations.

Thank you,
Chris Kemnow
Flying Frog Productions, LLC


I guess I'll just have to deal with the color variation or sleeve the cards. Does any one know what sleeve size fits FFP cards? If I do sleeve, I'll just do the Secret cards, since I really really really do not like sleeves. Oh well.


I received that exact response when I e-mailed them back in January about card variations in LNoE and the Growing Hunger expansion.
I like their games, but the glaring color variations are disappointing. They should really look into getting it fixed.
 
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Arthur Peterson
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I work in publishing/printing and I can tell you for 100 percent certain that no printer in the U.S. would consider that acceptable. I just printed up a run of books a couple of months ago and a few illustrations came out slightly lighter than expected. I pointed it out to the printer and offered to settle for a small discount, but the printer wouldn't hear of it and instead printed the entire run correctly and rush-shipped them. And then on top of that they allowed us to keep the initial print run, which is entirely saleable. That's how printing works. Someone at FFP needs to press their printer and get the issue sorted out.

I wonder if the real issue is that FFP signed off on proofs without checking against previous editions. If that's the case, then it's not the printer's fault at all and FFP has no recourse.
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Patrick
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zpeteman wrote:
I work in publishing/printing and I can tell you for 100 percent certain that no printer in the U.S. would consider that acceptable. I just printed up a run of books a couple of months ago and a few illustrations came out slightly lighter than expected. I pointed it out to the printer and offered to settle for a small discount, but the printer wouldn't hear of it and instead printed the entire run correctly and rush-shipped them. And then on top of that they allowed us to keep the initial print run, which is entirely saleable. That's how printing works. Someone at FFP needs to press their printer and get the issue sorted out.

I wonder if the real issue is that FFP signed off on proofs without checking against previous editions. If that's the case, then it's not the printer's fault at all and FFP has no recourse.

No recourse other than eating the cost of printing the cards. Even then... just print the cards needed. Its not like they need to remake the entire expansion(s).
 
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Jack
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This just smacks of rampant laziness. I've been on the FF bandwagon since day one (with the exception of the stupid aliens vs. carnies game), but I'm not happy with this latest revelation.
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Thanasis Patsios
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Well, no Coast expansion for me. In fact I'll think twice before purchasing any other games from FFP.

I don't really mind the colour variation, these things happen. But for an established publisher, to refuse to produce replacements and actually suggesting that this level of QC is acceptable, well, there other products I can spend my money on.
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Michael Dillenbeck
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I like Arkham Horror a lot, but my wife doesn't have the time to commit to the game. I went with A Touch of Evil as a compromise and have enjoyed the game. I purchased the base game and the Something Wicked expansion, and at first was impressed with the quality of the components when I opened and played the base game.

Then I opened the expansion. Those cards are slightly longer than the base game, which bothers the heck out of me. I don't want to be able to tell "oh, an expansion card is next in the deck" - I want to be surprised. Also, all the cardboard is warped (not to the point of unplayability, but noticeable - guess its time to buy some clamps and wood).

Now I read about this expansion and the card color, and I must say I am disappointed in the companies response. I will have to debate whether I wish to invest more in a company that turns out such a low quality product - a shame, because my wife really wants Fortune and Glory also and I want to round out the series with the expansions/cards. I will have to talk with my wife about what to do.
 
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David J
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Verbosity wrote:
I will have to talk with my wife about what to do.


I am guessing your wife's response will be like this:

*blinks*

"I don't care either way."
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Brian Cwikla

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Verbosity wrote:
Now I read about this expansion and the card color, and I must say I am disappointed in the companies response. I will have to debate whether I wish to invest more in a company that turns out such a low quality product.


I'm in the same boat. I hope they respond to this differently and work to correct the problem otherwise it's doubtful I'll invest in expansions and that's a shame as I like their games.
 
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Jack
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It's almost as if they are so certain that we stupid lemmings will mindlessly buy their product that they can churn out absolute crap and we'll fork over the $$$.
 
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Jason
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Wulf Corbett wrote:
Here's a pic of mine. No flash, but even so, I feel the contrast has been exaggerated by the camera. Nowhere near as extreme as the OP's pic.


Maybe not "extreme" but if FFG were a painting and decorating outfit, theyd'd be in court every other day of the week. That doesn't look acceptable to me - and I'm a huge fan of their stuff. Poor response from them, frankly.
 
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Jason
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senorcoo wrote:
It's almost as if they are so certain that we stupid lemmings will mindlessly buy their product that they can churn out absolute crap and we'll fork over the $$$.


In fairness, going by many of our purchases, I'd say they know their audience...
 
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ROBERTO M
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One of the stronger cards of FFP, beside their great games, was the quality of their components. A bad lot is understandable, it happens from time to time with all the companies. What differenciate the companies is their Customer Service. If FFP is not willing to replace the defective cards that affect gameplay, that are basically the Secret ones, what can we hope if we have a major quality issue with one of their games. This is sad because two of my favorite games are LNOE and AToE, and the company that produces both doesn't want to be responsible for the quality issues with their games.
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Drew
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Does anyone know if this is constant in all of the Coast expansions? It seemed like the Coast was out for awhile (and everyone seemed really happy with it) before this issue was brought up.

I feel like I see issues like these in most of the expansions I buy, not just Flying Frog.

Unless it is some type of CCG, I almost expect anymore that expansion cards will not be the same size, which always forces me to sleeve (which I tried to stop). I have had this problem with either the Something Wicked or the web exclusive ATOE decks as well as lots of FFG expansions. I have also received cards with fronts that are oriented differently then base game.

Expansion boards are either not the same size and/or of an obvious different card stock so the boards do not look right together. This seems almost a given anymore especially when the base game is a few years old.

Then there are the miniatures that are a different size, plastic color or obviously made of cheaper plastic then the base game. Defenders of the Realm (while a great game) I think hit all of these issues.

I have games which shipped with old versions of cards -- this happened with one of the print runs of Runebound Island of Dread.

Tokens that are punched backwards from others.

Then there is Mage Knight...

I don't know if this is sloppiness on the part of the game publisher. FFG and Flying Frog both seem to spend a lot of time and money on designing attractive, visually appealing games. They don't seem to be inclined push an ugly, sloppy looking game out the door -- I know that some people don't always feel that the games are playtested enough and that the rules are unclear.

It seems that whatever contract they have with their publishers it must be that they are forced to take whatever shows up on the boat from China. Either that or they are going with someone so cheap they cannot assure any consistency between print runs. Probably both. Really wish that the industry as a whole could address these problems with the increasing number of sloppy print runs.
 
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Brian Cwikla

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The only other game I've had issues with was in my copy of Earth Reborn, the tokens were offset when they were punched. I contacted the company and they immediately sent out corrected replacements. I also know FFG is really good at quickly sending out replacements if there are any issues.

With color issues, these should be caught well before the full print run is printed and shipped. If a mistake is caught after printing, the printer should reprint. A recent example is for the Gunship Kickstarter game. After the printer printed all the boards, the printer mentioned they weren't happy with them (game designer couldn't tell what was wrong) and they reprinted the entire run.

Drew, I thnk you're right that in this case, it implies sloppiness on the part of the publisher. I'm guessing they goofed in the proofing process and now feel stuck with what they have, not wanted to incur the costs of reprinting since they didn't call the printer out on this when it was being printed once they saw their proofs.
 
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MoonSylver
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A Touch of Evil: The Coast » Forums » General
Re: Card backs darker than base game
clip611 wrote:
Does anyone know if this is constant in all of the Coast expansions? It seemed like the Coast was out for awhile (and everyone seemed really happy with it) before this issue was brought up.


The issue was mentioned pretty much right away, & I have yet to hear from anyone who DOESN'T have darker cards, so I have to assume it is true for the whole run.

In all honesty, and this is no slight to those that feel this way, my feeling is that most who have pick up The Coast HAVE been happy with it. My impression is that now that the subject has been broached in more detail that it gives those who WEREN'T more of a open forum to voice their displeasure & discuss the situation.

As stated earlier, I personally don't find it any impediment to my enjoyment of an otherwise fine expansion.

The color difference IMO is really only noticeable in the Secrets. I scanned a copy of a Secret card, put it on top of the deck, deal from the bottom, & make sure The Elders completely cover their Secrets. Problem solved. And there's always sleeving as well. Both simple & inexpensive fixes. (Even though I agree for the most part that there shouldn't be a need for them in the first place.)

Am I happy about it? No. Do I hope they're a little more stringent in the future? Yes. Does it affect my ability to use & enjoy the expansion? No. Do I regret my purchase? Not at all.

So anyone considering The Coast I guess has to ask themselves how much the issue is likely to bother them & does the workaround bother them or not.

If so, then pass on it. But if not, I hope you enjoy. It does make me sad to see folks missing out on it for what I find to be a minor issue easily fixed. But if it would bother them that much they're probably better off not picking it up.

I agree in general that it's not right, should have been caught/fixed, etc. But I would have kind have felt like I was throwing out the baby with the bathwater to have passed on it just based on that.

But I understand those that feel differently about it than I do. I'm sorry that The Coast hasn't yield the same positive experience for you that it has for me. I hope some kind of resolution can be found that is satisfactory to all.
---MS
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Brian Cwikla

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Good points Moon. For me, the issue is more a matter of FFP's response more than the actual color issue. Had I not seen that response from FFP, I would be more apt to just grumble a bit and work around the issue. But the fact that they said this was an acceptable color variation really rubs me the wrong way and lowers my opinion of their quality standards, which saddens me because I love their games and their design ideas. I've worked in the printing Industry for a long time and know how this should be handled and that wasn't the proper way.
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How about the fact that there has been no comment on this thread by FFP?
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Dan Buman
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senorcoo wrote:
How about the fact that there has been no comment on this thread by FFP?


I agree. I wish FFP would make a response here. It appears to me that it is actually more of a public relations issue than anything else. If there was a little more communication I believe this issue could be resolved satisfactorily.
I love the Touch of Evil games in every way and it pains me to see this amount of friction over such a small matter. I hope there is some communication from FFP in the near future to resolve this issue... it is in MHO already out of hand.
 
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Nate T.
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The Mystery and Secrets cards are the biggest offenders. The other cards aren't as noticeable. It's more annoying than anything, and maybe a little embarrassing.

One thing that bothers me is it's a repeat problem. Seeing how the OP received a cut and paste of the email response I received almost a year ago, FFP knows this is a recurring problem, but doesn't seem to think it's an important enough issue to make any changes. Of course, we haven't heard anything from them, so maybe I'm off base. I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Unfortunately, this issue has caused me to hesitate when buying any of their new products to see if there are any more of these problems in the future.
 
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