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Subject: On-map Indrect Fire rss

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Jerry White
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Can anyone walk me through an example of on-map indirect fire?

Lets use a Soviet 76.2mm M39 ATG located in hex 3415 (center of the village Kurhva) and the spotter is CHQ T34/76 in hex 3314. The target is a PzIVG located in hex 2616 (woods) facing toward hex 2715 and is spotted for move. I want to use indirect fire from the ATG. What is the procedure (steps) I would follow.


Thanks...
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Brent Pollock
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1. assume the T-34 is able to do so (has a radio, is part of the same Company, has passed an optional Spotting roll, etc.)

2. give the T-34 an Overwatch order

3. give the ATG a Fire order (target hex must be in field of fire so take care of this in the preceeding turn's Pivot Step)

4. If the tank has yet to be knocked out by German first player indirect fire, the tank will make a spotting d10 roll with mods for smoke, Suppression, etc.

5. if you pass the d10 roll (with any checks for friendly fire or target hex drift as per Optional Rules) then attack all targets with their own GP attack DR using mods as per the GP chart
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David Ells
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WBRP wrote:
1. assume the T-34 is able to do so (has a radio, is part of the same Company, has passed an optional Spotting roll, etc.)


The explanation looks correct to me. However, strictly speaking, the T-34's (specifically the T-34/76's in 1941-43) did not typically feature a radio. Only the Tank Company commander had one; a T-34/76 Company consisted of 3 platoons of 3 tanks each, plus 1 Company Commander tank with the radio, for a total of 10 T-34/76's and 1 radio.
 
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Jason Cawley
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1943 was the transition year for radios in T-34s, actually. The 1942 models pretty much all didn't have them, but the 1943 models did.

That doesn't mean every T-34 could call for indirect fire from that point on, however. Modern people used to cell phones cannot grasp how primitive radio technology was in WW II. Many of the radios had a range of 5 miles or less under the best conditions - sufficient for talking to the other tanks in the company, surely, but not to raise divisional artillery miles away in the rear.

Also, a tank commander sergeant would not have the authority to order whole battalions of artillery to fire on this target rather than that one, especially in the Red Army.

But those are all historical quibbles, not game rule points. (The closest is the last - scenarios will specify levels of dedication of off board artillery, with "Unattached" assets unlikely to fire when asked, because they have other "customers" with higher command priority on their fires).
 
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Jerry White
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Thanks for the info...Now I will walk through it to make sure I am getting it right...Feel free to call foul where I error....

Spotting Phase: A T-34 (CHQ for a company that has a 76.2mm ATG) in hex 3415 spots a PzIVg in hex 2616 (woods) and wants to call for indirect fire against the PzIVg from the 76.2 ATG in hex 3314. The ATG has its line-of-sight to the PzIVg blocked by buildings so it can use indirect fire (6.5.1). The ATG is within command range of the T-34 (6.2.1.1.2).

Command Phase: An Overwatch command is placed on the T-34 and a Fire command is placed on the 76.2 ATG ( 6.5.1 page 34)

Initiative Phase: assume that the Soviet gets initiative and Fires first.

Combat Phase: Indirect Fired Combat Step –
Called Indirect Fire Response (6.5.1.12) The observer Grade is seasoned (IF RSP = 0 - no modification) The ATG is an Attached unit at the company level. There are no modifiers from the Called Indirect Fire Response Modifiers Table. A die roll (10 sided) equal to or greater than the number found on Called IF Response Table results in an impact in the target hex and an impact marker is placed in the target hex. Other results could be, if less than the table number equals no response. Or if an unmodified die roll of 1 then a Danger Close action may be called or the response automatically fails. Because the ATG is on-map it uses Closed SHEAF (6.5.1.5).

Indirect Fire Resolution (6.5.1.13): Determine the range to the target (6.5.4.1) - Distance to target is measured from the unit most distant from the target (observer or firing unit). Target GP defense Factor – the PzIVg has a defense factor of 2A. Collect the GP Fire Modifiers (6.5.4.3) from the GP Fired Modifiers Table – The PzIVg is an A type target so it has a -20 die modifier, the PzIVg is moving so it has a -10 die modifier, the PzIVg is in a woods hex but because this is IF there is no modification to the die roll (Target Vehicle in Medium or Heavy Cover page 45). Total die modifications is -30.

GP Fire Determination (6.5.4.4) - The ATG is firing at Short range (GP-IF) and so has a GP Factor (F) of 3. The GP Factor is crossed-referenced with the GP Defense Factor of the target (2) on the GP Combat Results Table (game chart B) – N=47 and S=74. A die is rolled (100) and the modifications (-30) are applied to the results. If the modified die roll is less than or equal to 47 then there is no effect. If the modified die roll is greater than 47 but less than or equal to 74 then the target is suppressed/on. If the modified die roll is greater than 74 then the target suffers an effective result. In this combat example the target could never take effective result (100 – 30 = 70; can never be greater than 74) The target could receive a Suppression result (any roll of 78 to 100 = suppression). All other die rolls = no effect.

Well, that is the way I see it. Let me know if I got off track anywhere....Thanks
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Brent Pollock
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Without cracking the rule book, this all seems right. Now for the question I've been waiting to ask since you started this thread - why don't you skip the indirect fire option and just have CHQ T-34 blast direct at the Pz IVG? Are you trying to trump German initiative?
 
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Jerry White
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To answer you question....we are trying to learn the Advanced Game rules and this type of fire (IF) is part of it. We could have used other spotting types of units (inf or FO) but we had been walking through Scenario 3 and we got to this position and wanted to see how the IF rule worked....I guess that you could say that this is not a 'real' game (we don't care about win/lose, just learn the rules) as we would do a bit of a move...try one of the AG rules and talk our way through it til we think we understand what is going on with that particular rule...then move on to the next rule til we understand it...actual game play comes after we get the rules down.....
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Jim Day
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Panzer (second edition) » Forums » Rules
Re: On-map Indrect Fire
JasonC wrote:

1943 was the transition year for radios in T-34s, actually. The 1942 models pretty much all didn't have them, but the 1943 models did.

That doesn't mean every T-34 could call for indirect fire from that point on, however. Modern people used to cell phones cannot grasp how primitive radio technology was in WW II. Many of the radios had a range of 5 miles or less under the best conditions - sufficient for talking to the other tanks in the company, surely, but not to raise divisional artillery miles away in the rear.

Also, a tank commander sergeant would not have the authority to order whole battalions of artillery to fire on this target rather than that one, especially in the Red Army.

But those are all historical quibbles, not game rule points. (The closest is the last - scenarios will specify levels of dedication of off board artillery, with "Unattached" assets unlikely to fire when asked, because they have other "customers" with higher command priority on their fires).


There are some very good points made here. That's why the T-34/76 M43 modeled in the game, which started appearing in mid-43, is the first model of the T-34/76 in Panzer without the radio restriction. That rule limits radios only to command vehicles.

An even more important consideration is that Soviet command units may only call indirect fire from Attached units (see section 6.5.1.1.2). Only Soviet FOs may call fire from Organic and Unattached units.
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