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Subject: Infiltrate? rss

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Minsub Kim
South Korea
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Play on a base. Destroy an action that has been played here.
Ongoing : You may ignore this base's ability until the start of your next turn.

Is "until the start of your next turn." means, that the infiltrate card would be discarded when my next turn comes?

I'm not good at English, so I can't feel the exact meaning of the sentence.

Discard or not?
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Joseph Saucedo
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Moreno Valley
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Discard
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Minsub Kim
South Korea
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Thanks!
 
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An additional question about this card- if the base has a beneficial ability, does this allow you to stop other players from using it, or does it just allow you to avoid using it? Specifically, this came up when a player used the card on the base that gives extra points to the winner for every 5 power he has there- it was used to keep another player from getting those extra points. Does your ability to ignore a base's ability extend to forcing other players to ignore it as well?
 
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Matthew
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Keywords are "you" and "may." This means a) the ongoing power is only applicable to the player who played it and b) you don't have to use that specified power. Hope that helps
 
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J H
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Billings and Bozeman
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Infiltrate says to play on a base, and its ability is an optional ongoing effect. It does not tell you to discard Infiltrate, so you would not discard it when your next turn comes. Infiltrate stays out there until someone cancels it or the base is scored. (Unlike the wording on the "Overrun" Zombie card.)
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Mike Schmitzer
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I´m an experienced player, but after 10 minutes playtime i give up on smash up. Maybe just a bad day. The rules are still not clear enough in my opinion. For example there is "Infiltrate". The cardtext states: "Destroy 1 action played to this base" (I got the german version, maybe the english text is slightly different). How can i destroy an action when actioncards are discarded after play? Or does this mean any permanent card effects? No idea.
Another thing: Theres this Alien-Minion which gains 1 victory point. But when? After playing (my guess) or when the base is destroyed?
Is there any possibility to play a card in other players turn to stop any action? I found nothing about that in the rulebook? And if its possible, shouldn´t there be any symbol on the card as clue?

Short rules are fine but rules wich are to short to explain the fundamental game mechanism are really a pain.
 
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M. B. Downey
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Britzel wrote:
I´m an experienced player, but after 10 minutes playtime i give up on smash up. Maybe just a bad day. The rules are still not clear enough in my opinion.


I disagree, but YMMV.

Quote:
For example there is "Infiltrate". The cardtext states: "Destroy 1 action played to this base" (I got the german version, maybe the english text is slightly different). How can i destroy an action when actioncards are discarded after play? Or does this mean any permanent card effects? No idea.


Action Cards that say "ongoing" can be destroyed.

Quote:
Another thing: Theres this Alien-Minion which gains 1 victory point. But when? After playing (my guess) or when the base is destroyed?


When you play it.

Quote:
Is there any possibility to play a card in other players turn to stop any action? I found nothing about that in the rulebook? And if its possible, shouldn´t there be any symbol on the card as clue?


There is no card (as of right now) that interrupts and counters another player's action. But you can play cards out of turn if it says "Special" and you meet the requirements for it, e.g. "when this base is about to score" or "after this base scores".

Quote:
Short rules are fine but rules wich are to short to explain the fundamental game mechanism are really a pain.


The (English, anyway) rulebook for Smash Up is one of the best out there.
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Mike Schmitzer
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Thanx for the quick response and clarification. I maybe give smash up another try tomorrow. I really want to like it. ninja
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M. B. Downey
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Britzel wrote:
Thanx for the quick reponse and clarification. I maybe give smash up another try tomorrow.


You should!

The best advice for the rules is don't overthink it, the rules mean what you think they mean. That clears up 99% of any rules confusion.

Have fun!
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Jonah O.
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Smash Up » Forums » Rules
Re: Infiltrate?
I really want to like Smash Up, and I've played a few good rounds of it with the right crowd, but Infiltrate is the perfect example of what's wrong with the game. When would it be useful to ignore an effect of a base just for yourself? Almost never. Of the sixteen bases, I can only think of three instances:

1) If you're about to break and win Evans City Cemetery.

2) Tar Pits, if you're playing Ninja-Zombies and you expect one of your minions there might be destroyed soon.

3) Temple of Goju, if you're playing Ninja-Zombies and the base is about to break.

Have those ever happened to any of you guys? Me neither. Infiltrate would be almost exactly the same card with that line removed, except nobody would find it confusing and it would be easier to read for new players.

This happens with a lot of cards. I try to avoid playing four-player games with new players, because they have basically no chance of keeping up with what the robots are doing. Interesting cards are good, but multiple abilities per card and ambiguous rules just speaks to a lack of editing.
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Rob Shaw
United States
Unspecified
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DevilDawg90 wrote:
Discard


MIB 8686 wrote:
Infiltrate says to play on a base, and its ability is an optional ongoing effect. It does not tell you to discard Infiltrate, so you would not discard it when your next turn comes. Infiltrate stays out there until someone cancels it or the base is scored. (Unlike the wording on the "Overrun" Zombie card.)


Seems like there is no consensus on whether it is discarded after one round or not. I can see it both ways.

On the one hand, it is an ongoing card and it never says to discard it.

But it's confusing to have an ongoing effect that says "until the start of your next turn". This makes it sound like the ongoing effect expires. Otherwise, they wouldn't have written "until the start of your next turn". They could just have said "you may ignore this base's ability".

So the question is which next turn is it referring to? The next turn after you play the card seems to make the most sense to me. I have heard others claim that you somehow "activate" it sometime after playing it, and then it only lasts until your next turn after that moment, but that seems to be a stretch.
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J H
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Billings and Bozeman
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Yossarian89 wrote:
But it's confusing to have an ongoing effect that says "until the start of your next turn". This makes it sound like the ongoing effect expires. Otherwise, they wouldn't have written "until the start of your next turn". They could just have said "you may ignore this base's ability".

So the question is which next turn is it referring to? The next turn after you play the card seems to make the most sense to me. I have heard others claim that you somehow "activate" it sometime after playing it, and then it only lasts until your next turn after that moment, but that seems to be a stretch.


Hopefully the publisher will release a good FAQ for issues such as this.

The players I game with interpret the card as literally as possible. Since it's an ongoing effect that doesn't tell you to discard it, it does not discard itself. The duration issue is definitely the tricky part. We've interpreted it to mean that the person who played Infiltrate may choose to ignore the base's ability at any time, but then he must continue to ignore the base's ability until the start of his next turn. (Usually the Ninja player never even bothers to use that function of the card - he only plays it to cancel another player's ongoing effect.)

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Bryan Stout
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Yossarian89 wrote:
Seems like there is no consensus on whether it is discarded after one round or not. I can see it both ways.

On the one hand, it is an ongoing card and it never says to discard it.

Bingo! That's the answer. I understand the confusion about an Ongoing card that stops having an effect, but that's the way it is.

Quote:
So the question is which next turn is it referring to? The next turn after you play the card seems to make the most sense to me. I have heard others claim that you somehow "activate" it sometime after playing it, and then it only lasts until your next turn after that moment, but that seems to be a stretch.

You are correct.
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Jesse
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ostroffj wrote:
I really want to like Smash Up, and I've played a few good rounds of it with the right crowd, but Infiltrate is the perfect example of what's wrong with the game. When would it be useful to ignore an effect of a base just for yourself? Almost never. Of the sixteen bases, I can only think of three instances:

1) If you're about to break and win Evans City Cemetery.

2) Tar Pits, if you're playing Ninja-Zombies and you expect one of your minions there might be destroyed soon.

3) Temple of Goju, if you're playing Ninja-Zombies and the base is about to break.



the ongoing effect only lets you ignore the base's ability until the start of your next turn, so in other words you can only ignore the ability when its not your turn. To use it on evens cemetery someone else would have to break it on their turn. I found it somewhat useful on the the central brain, you can ignore that +1 power if you want to postpone the breaking so you can lay an extra minion before it breaks. I do agree there are limited bases it is useful at but the destroy an action is nice and as more expansions come out it may be more useful
 
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J H
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Billings and Bozeman
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Jessiah wrote:
the ongoing effect only lets you ignore the base's ability until the start of your next turn, so in other words you can only ignore the ability when its not your turn.

Incorrect. You can certainly use the ability on your turn, and that ability lasts until the start of your next turn.
 
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Diego Picchetto
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I play it as each turn you can choose if you ignore or not the base's ability. Because it is ongoing I doesn't make sense to me that only once I can "use" it, thus I assumed It is, as I said, each of your turns as long as Infiltrate is on a base you may choose to "trigger" Infiltrate.
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J
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Alexandria
Virginia
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While I too like this interpretation there is a problem with it. The game already has a way to denote abilities that can be used each turn which is called "Talent".

The other problem with that is if you look at the Archmage he too has an ability that can be used every turn (and probably should have been a talent) but he specifies that you can do it on each of your turns whereas Infiltrate does not.

That being said no one is very clear on how Infiltrate truly works so until we get it clarified I say go ahead and play it however you want.
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Rafael Esberard

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MIB 8686 wrote:
We've interpreted it to mean that the person who played Infiltrate may choose to ignore the base's ability at any time, but then he must continue to ignore the base's ability until the start of his next turn.


That is 100% PERFECT!

Normaly a interpretation simple as possible solves the matter, many replies here are considering that card is missing text/rules elements to clarify considering possibilities that has no reason to be considered since its not writen there... theres in fact not much to discuss. Fantasy less, read it, thats simple.

- Its not discarted.
- Its a simple card ability that has a time duration "until the start of your next turn".

Cant be so confusing...
Sorry if thats too harsh to say!

Peace.
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J
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So in other words you agree that after 1 turn has passed Infiltrate sits on whatever base it was played on doing absolutely nothing to affect the game despite still being in play?
 
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Rafael Esberard

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allstar64 wrote:
So in other words you agree that after 1 turn has passed Infiltrate sits on whatever base it was played on doing absolutely nothing to affect the game despite still being in play?


Not exacly allstar64...
Anytime this base effect triggers we have its Ongoing ability option:
"You may ignore this base's ability until the start of your next turn."

Thats why its a Ongoing.
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Simon Tan
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allstar64 wrote:
While I too like this interpretation there is a problem with it. The game already has a way to denote abilities that can be used each turn which is called "Talent".

The other problem with that is if you look at the Archmage he too has an ability that can be used every turn (and probably should have been a talent) but he specifies that you can do it on each of your turns whereas Infiltrate does not.

That being said no one is very clear on how Infiltrate truly works so until we get it clarified I say go ahead and play it however you want.


The "Talent" ability did not exist during the base game; it was only added in Awesome Level 9000. That also seems to eliminate the interpretation that the ability is a "talent."

The Archmage's ability just lets you play an extra action, so making it a talent isn't necessary. By this supposition, it also makes Infiltrate not work during each of your turns, but until the start of your next turn.
 
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William Nelson
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The card is quite simple. It means what it says:

1. Play on a Base (Pick one of the bases in play just as you would when playing a minion or any other action). This card is somewhat unique-ish in that its not played on a Minion (to destroy it) so it says "base" for a reason - to clarify (See Wildlife Preserve below).

2. Destroy an action that has been played here Does the Base HAVE AN ACTION IN PLAY? If so, destroy it. Otherwise, this much of the card's ability is wasted.

3. Ongoing: You may ignore this base's ability until the start of your next turn At the start of your next turn THIS CARD RESOLVES, STAYS IN PLAY AND THE ONGOING EFFECT BEGINS ANEW.


The confusion with this card is in its application. It seems kind of "useless". However, as is the case with any Faction in the game, it has "good" cards and "bad" cards. I.e. cards that play well in certain situations and cards that don't do squat unless paired well with/against other Factions.

This is one of those cards. The Ninja Faction (in general) has a few confusing cards and I would not play with it when introducing the game to others.

"But what good is Infiltrate if it just does what it says?"

Like I said, it has its uses...only against certain other Factions/cards. For example: it's a great card to play if an opponent has played his Zombie Faction card, Overrun.

In effect, the opposing player has locked down a base and is keeping anyone from playing minions on it until the beginning of his/her next turn. Infiltrate would eliminate this Action and allow you to play minions there.

Or, try Wildlife Preserve from the Dinosaur Faction. The opposing player has made all of his minions immune to your Actions. However, Infiltrate doesn't target any minion, it targets A BASE and can wipe Wildlife Preserve out thus making the opposing player's minions vulnerable again (Wildlife Preserve - an ACTION - is NOT immune from other player's Actions).

Or how about Pay the Piper from the Trickster's Faction? You want to play Minions on this Base but the Pipers card forces you to discard every time you do so. Why not use Infiltrate...

But what if you are playing against someone who has a Wizards/Robots Faction deck?

Useless. Infiltrate is utterly useless (unless you want to ignore a Bases' Ability for some reason).

Also, bear in mind that Ongoing Actions have TARGETS. When that Target is lost the ngoing Effect resolves and is discarded.

I.e. When the Base is scored, you discard Infiltrate. When the Target is Assassinated you discard Assassinate. etc.

 
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Bryan Stout
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I am working on the detailed Smash Up FAQ for AEG, and I will spill the beans about its answer about Inflitrate: It is supposed to be discarded at the start of your next turn. I got this directly from the designer.
 
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Jon Gameson
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Barliman wrote:
I am working on the detailed Smash Up FAQ for AEG, and I will spill the beans about its answer about Inflitrate: It is supposed to be discarded at the start of your next turn. I got this directly from the designer.


Oh wow...that caught me off guard...ninja
 
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