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Formula D» Forums » General

Subject: Fair starting positions? rss

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Leander Leitner
Austria
Wels
Upper Austria
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Hi!

I only play with casual gamers who do not want to use a qualifying lap to determine the starting positions...rolling a die to do this is not fair as the last places have a disadvantage.

Do you have house rules to create a fair start?

One way is to use two cars per player... all players roll a die, the highest number gets the pole position, the second highest number position 2 etc...till all every player has one car on the track. Then players don't roll the die again but the player with the pole position automatically is last, too...and so on...

e.g. 4 players, 2 cars each,

Starting grid:

1, 8
2, 7
3, 6
4, 5

And after the race the points of a player's cars are added for a point total.

Another solution would be a closer grid with disabled collisions until the first curve.

Your ideas?
 
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Ryan Freels
United States
Gainesville
Florida
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I was thinking of start positions just like you mention. Pole also gets last on their team. It also works that each player has one car in the top half and one in the bottom half, at least at the start. I have not tried it yet, so cannot give feedback.

How many laps do you run?

 
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Leander Leitner
Austria
Wels
Upper Austria
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Just 1 so the starting position is even more important.
 
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Sam
Canada
Vancouver
BC
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From my limited experience, starting position was not critical as 1/3 of the cars were crashed somehow before completing the race...
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René Christensen
Denmark
Solroed Strand
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We just rolled a D20 for car, highest in front.

When we did a qualification lap, I was too fast for the others, so rolling a dice was more fair - and we saved a lot of time too.
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Kevin Conway
United States
Boonville
Indiana
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For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes... Romans 1:16
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What's exactly unfair about several people who have exactly equal chances of winning a die roll?

The rest of the game is determined through die rolls too, eh?
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Leander Leitner
Austria
Wels
Upper Austria
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The starting position die roll is random only. The rest of the game is strategy + random rolls.
 
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matty matt
United States
Illinois
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TO qualify at the IND 500, for example, there is 1 warm up lap and 3 qualifying laps. For formula D, each player rolls the black die 4 times and totals the highest 3 rolls. By removing the lowest roll of the 4, that imitates/simulates the 1 warm up lap. Each player rolls one "lap" at a time, which is written on a note pad. After the fourth roll is finished, the lowest number is scratched and totals are compared. The starting positions are then assigned. If there's a tie, the lower rolls are then compared (i.e. the player with the higher of the scratched rolls is placed in the better start position). It's still the luck of the roll, but gives you more of a chance to get the pole postion if your 1st roll is low. THIS IS MUCH MORE thematic than just having 1 roll.
After writing this, I think the next time we play, 1 player will roll 4 times and take the pole position. The next player will roll 4 times and adjust the starting postion for those 2 players. And then the 3rd player, and so on and so forth.
AHHH, but who will roll 1st?

AND FOR QUICK STARTS:
- a 20 stalls.
- a 1 moves 1 PLUS rolls 1st gear and moves that number.
- a 2 moves 2 PLUS rolls 1st gear and moves that number.
- a 3 moves 3 and stops. He can shift into 2nd gear next turn.
- a 4 moves 4 and stops. He can shift into 2nd gear next turn.
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Andrew Brown
Jordan
Madaba-Manja
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mdwmatt wrote:
TO qualify at the IND 500, for example, there is 1 warm up lap and 3 qualifying laps. For formula D, each player rolls the black die 4 times and totals the highest 3 rolls. By removing the lowest roll of the 4, that imitates/simulates the 1 warm up lap. Each player rolls one "lap" at a time, which is written on a note pad. After the fourth roll is finished, the lowest number is scratched and totals are compared. The starting positions are then assigned. If there's a tie, the lower rolls are then compared (i.e. the player with the higher of the scratched rolls is placed in the better start position). It's still the luck of the roll, but gives you more of a chance to get the pole postion if your 1st roll is low. THIS IS MUCH MORE thematic than just having 1 roll.


By all means do this if you find it to be more thematic, but it doesn't change anything. Determining the starting positions by 1 die roll is equivalent to determining the starting positions by the sum of 3 rolls, or 4 rolls, or 100 rolls of the die. Everyone still has an equal chance of starting in any position on the track.
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Niels Kjær
Denmark
Malling
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If you do not wat to run qualifying and still want to avoid a random start grid, you can let players bid for starting positions with points.
Those points are then deducted from the points they get for finishing.
Ties are solved with either a new bid or a die roll.

Example:
Steve has won the bid 5 points and stsarts from pole, while John bid 1 and starts from 5th.
Steve wins the race with John second, which gives Steve (10-5) 5 points and John (8-1) 7 points.

You can vary the points distribution to give the players a bit more to bid with instead of the standard F1 distribution, for instance multiplying the points with 1.000 (1,000 for you Americans )
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Justin X
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I've often found that starting in pole has very little advantage to this game. some tracks its far better to start a little further back because you are more likely to hit the turns in the right gear, where as pole needs to be cautious with the first bend as they race off and get too close to it, to change up a gear safely.

I've also played the 2 cars scenario and quite often a [players second car does better than the first, although perhaps its because some players take more risks with 1 or their 2 cars anyway.
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Mathieu
France
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Hello,

I read all your propositions for fair start. First, I think there is no "fair start", there is still luck.

We had an idea (when I say we, maybe it's a friend one ):
We do qualifications in 3 black-dice rolls, but there is strategy. In the reverse order of the world championship, pilots roll the black-die one time. Cars are put on the track, on a part numbered 1 to 20. Still in the same order, pilots can choose to roll again or to keep their performance, with the doubt that other pilots can do better.

- If you decide to stop your qualifications after the first roll, you're not authorized to roll again (obviously).
- If you decide to roll again, you erase the former performance. Here begin brainstorms !

If you choose to stop with a 16 at the first roll, you can stay 2nd-3rd, but sometimes, it is possible to be 8th-9th (on a 10 grid).


So there is luck but strategy and it takes 2 minutes max with 10 players.

Thank for your ideas, by the way !


See you in another game
 
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Mike Gillman
England
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If you don't like the randomness of it an all players have two cars, give everyone 10 grid points and let them bid for position.
Then if they spend all of their points getting pole, they are likely to have their other car way back on the back row.
If you fid there are too many draws, just make it 20 points instead.
If there are still ties lower down the order, then the player with their first car highest on the grid, loses the tie.

If you do more than one race (I did a season of 16 races once) roll the D20 and add where you finished the previous race. So if you finished first, your score would be D20+1 and if you came 10th, it would be D20+10.

This helps even things out.
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Mark Stevenson

TORONTO
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Formula D » Forums » General
Re: Fair starting positions?
Hey Leander Leitner, my group of friends do exactly the same as what you mentioned. We find it to be the best way to do it.

I did, however, just conjure up a way to make the positioning a little more interesting and very competitive. It's a race before the race... tell your friends that the first person to arrive to your house gets pole position, the next gets 2nd and so on. Since you're already home and out of the 'race', just write down the number of players on pieces of paper and place them into a hat. Draw one and whatever number you get, you take the position, bumping the players below you down a spot.

Or just get a deck of cards and have people pick one.

Though, dice rolling is always fun... especially when it's a tie and you have to re-roll! I had a battle with a friend for pole position. We both rolled 1's (we play lowest instead of highest). He then rolled again... 4.. I then rolled..4! Anyway, my luck ran out and he ended up taking pole position haha
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