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Ben Foy
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Hoity Toity » Forums » Reviews
A definitive review of the most under-rated Eurogame
A winner of both the SdJ and DSP, this is a great strategy game which will also appeal to a family. Like many of the other games to win both awards, this is a good 'gateway' game to introduce people to boardgaming. Note: The other 4 games which won both awards are all currently ranked in the top 60. This game isn't in the top 300, even though it is better than most of the other SdJ/DsP dual winners, IMO.

I used the word "definitive" because it sounds good and I couldn't think of a better word. My goal isn't to replace the other reviews of this game but to build off them. For that reason, I won't describe the mechanics, there are other reviews that do a great job of that. I want to give a better description of the game itself.

In other reviews this is been called a bluffing game, a psychological game, Rock-Paper-Scissors on steriods, ect... While all these descriptions have an element of truth, they all are misleading too. This is a game where you try to take advantage of your limited opportunities. There are multiple strategies and varied rewards. This game is:

Not Random - If you understand your opponents strategies and goals, then their play becomes predictable. It isn't unusual to do the same thing over and over again. Thats where the bluffing comes into play. A good example is the player who plays the detective 5 times in a row and then suddenly plays a thief when 3 other players exhibit. But the repetition isn't boring because its part of an overall strategy. Its much like calling a bunch of running plays in a row (in American Football). Should you go for another running play or toss the long pass...

Exciting - When you start understanding the game, the pressure starts growing. This isn't a negative, stressful sort of pressure. But a pressure caused by the limited number of opportunities to accomplish your goals and the risk associated with it. Everytime you detect whithout catching a thief or Exhibit and have half your collection stolen, you feel that pressure. When you Exhibit 3 times without catching anyone, you'll have to laugh. And when something works, it feels great.

Not Diplomatic - There are some people who want to use diplomacy in every game. But deal-making will ruin this game. This is one of those rare games which has alot of interaction with no diplomacy.

Quick - This is one of the huge advantages of the game. Agonizing over decisions is pointless. Just come up with a strategy and go with it. Over-analysing decisions is severely punished by the game because you become predictable. Individual decisions are less important than the whole. You won't win by playing it safe and you can't coast to a win. You have to fight for every space.

Not Antiquated - Even though the mechanics are very simple, this is a very subtle game. The lack of mechanics makes this game even better. You can't avoid the tough decisions. And when everyone is going to the castle at the end of the game, the decision of what to play can be excruciating (even though you only have 3 choices). After playing the game hundreds of times over the last 15 years, the game is more interesting now, than it was when I first played it.

Misunderstood - See above...

To my knowlege, Adel was the first Eurogame published in America (in English) and it introduced thousands of us to Eurogames. It set the stage for Settlers. People began to import Eurogames and in 1995 hundreds of copies of Settlers (and Medici) were imported.

This is one of the great Eurogames. Everyone who hasn't played this game is missing out.
Last edited on 2009-01-06 14:23:36 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Richard Hutnik
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This game, almost single handedly killed my interest in Euros when I played the Avalon Hill version of the game, before I played any other Euros. It thought after I played it Euros sucked badly and almost missed out on Settlers and others.
Ben Foy
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docreason wrote:
This game, almost single handedly killed my interest in Euros when I played the Avalon Hill version of the game, before I played any other Euros. It thought after I played it Euros sucked badly and almost missed out on Settlers and others.


That sounds more like a problem with you instead of a problem with the game. I try to be openminded about a game until I've played it at least once.
Brian Thompson
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Quote:
That sounds more like a problem with you instead of a problem with the game. I try to be openminded about a game until I've played it at least once.



Bfoy,
You are sooo right. I see it all the time, that someone will play an solid and awesome game (like Ra for instance) and after their first play or so they still haven't been able to wrap their brains around it or they haven't learned some of the subtle decision making involved with the game and they walk away saying the game sucks as opposed to just saying "I don't know if it is a good game or not because I haven't quite caught on just yet."

In Hoity Toity, there are all sorts of clues that will indicate what a person will be choosing to do in the castle or in the Auction hall. (Anyone who goes to the castle and consistently plays the detective everytime may not be playing well, especially if they are in first or second place ... unless of course they just need that one or two extra spaces to take them to a space that will score them further on the track the next round when they go to the castle for an exhibition and win the best exhibition. Does that make sense? By that same reasoning, once I know who is going to the castle, the first thing I look for is to see what position those players are in. If a player in last position goes to the castle, there is a higher probability that they would like to play the detective card.

Its all about knowing what to look for to predict what people may do to and that will help you make your decisions about how to take advantage of their decisions. (They may bluff you but that means they may not have made the most advantageous move for themselves and ended up hurting themselves more than you.)

If players don't know what to look for and how to base their decisions, then yeah, Hoity Toity feels like playing Rock Paper Scissors. They're just making a bunch of stupid decisions for no reason. If a person walks away from Hoity Toity feeling like they just played a glorified version of Rock, Paper, Scissors, then they didn't get it and they didn't play properly. Sucks to be them.

Same goes for Ra (or alot of other Knizia games for that matter). I know that Klaus Teuber designed Hoity Toity but I always hear complaints like these about Knizia games.

Good Review, Bfoy!
Ben Foy
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kasuga3 wrote:
Quote:
That sounds more like a problem with you instead of a problem with the game. I try to be openminded about a game until I've played it at least once.


Bfoy,
You are sooo right. I see it all the time, that someone will play an solid and awesome game (like Ra for instance) and after their first play or so they still haven't been able to wrap their brains around it or they haven't learned some of the subtle decision making involved with the game and they walk away saying the game sucks as opposed to just saying "I don't know if it is a good game or not because I haven't quite caught on just yet."


Yes, I agree with you there. But what got me, was judging the whole genre of games by one bad experience. In any genre of games, there are inevitably going to be games you don't like.
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nextinline wrote:
If a person walks away from Hoity Toity feeling like they just played a glorified version of Rock, Paper, Scissors, then they didn't get it and they didn't play properly.

It's more than Rock, Paper, Scissors, but it IS annoying to have a limited value on your best thief which can never be beaten by your neighbor. It forces you to do something you may not want to do.


Yes, I understand what you are saying. But that is what makes the game interesting. The fact that you do feel the pressure "to do something you may not want to do".

The name 'Hoity Toity' is misleading. Based on the name, you expect a light-hearted family game. Not an intense, strategy game. But the intensity is what makes this game fun and challenging. It is not a nasty game however, because you don't directly target other players. You target locations, so even though you steal paintings from another player, its not personal.

nextinline wrote:
I wish there was a way to add value to your thief or something the more you used him/her. Experience points or similar.

(Does that make sense? I can try again if I'm not being clear.)


Yes I understand what you are saying but I disagree. Doing that will decrease the intensity. And that would be bad. I understand that not everyone is going to like a game this intense. And you have to be in the right mood to play this game. You don't play it to relax, lol. However, if you want to play a very intense game, this is it!

nextinline wrote:
Also, the number of players is a consideration. The more the merrier, IMO.


You are certainly right about that.
Last edited on 2007-07-12 06:47:55 CST (Total Number of Edits: 2)
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