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The Dice Tower
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Thurn & Taxis... a good game!
Thurn & Taxis gets a lot of knocks on TDT. I'd like to argue in its favor. The two most frequent criticisms are: 1) the theme, and 2) the relative lack of opportunity for confrontation (a while back on TDT someone, maybe Tom? called it "four-player solitaire"). Regarding the theme...well, it is kind of obscure, I admit. And it's no simulation, that's for sure. Personally I find it kind of funny, when people ask about the game I'm playing, to tell them it's about the development of the Bavarian postal system. Yeah, I get some weird looks, but no worse than if I told them "We're settling an island", or "We're fighting the Battle of Akragas". Any way you cut it, an eyeroll is the most likely response by nongamers. Regarding the lack of confrontation, well, I agree that you're not banging heads over the high ground, or stealing the hot connecting routes before your buddies, or sticking someone with the Robber. Still, you're trying to accomplish certain goals before other players do, and when an opponent or two have plucked the high-point chits for gaining all Bavaria, I feel vexed...maybe more than vexed. Disgruntled even, I've gotta say. Enough so that I want to play again, and stick it to them next time. I love games with lots of theme. I got into this hobby through wargames. Although the wargames I play now are a lot lighter ( BattleLore, C&C Ancients, Clash for a Continent, for example), they're still my favorite genre. If Thurn & Taxis lacks theme, and simulation as well, it does have a beautiful map, probably the most evocative of the period to which it is themed of any euro of my aquaintance. I love the look of the cards and pieces too. So, even if there's not much simulating going on, I do find the game has great period feel. As far as conflict goes, once in a while it's fun to just sit back and solve the problems a game presents, in the company of friends and family. It's nice to eschew the need to bash my opponent against the edge of the game board while grinding him or her to a pulp with my heavy infantry. And, perhaps, someday, I'll dig out the blocks from Columbia's Napoleon, and see how that game plays out on the road-net of southern Germany.
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tsievers wrote: Thurn & Taxis gets a lot of knocks on TDT. I'd like to argue in its favor. The two most frequent criticisms are: 1) the theme, and 2) the relative lack of opportunity for confrontation (a while back on TDT someone, maybe Tom? called it "four-player solitaire").
Regarding the theme...well, it is kind of obscure, I admit. And it's no simulation, that's for sure. Personally I find it kind of funny, when people ask about the game I'm playing, to tell them it's about the development of the Bavarian postal system. Yeah, I get some weird looks, but no worse than if I told them "We're settling an island", or "We're fighting the Battle of Akragas". Any way you cut it, an eyeroll is the most likely response by nongamers.
Regarding the lack of confrontation, well, I agree that you're not banging heads over the high ground, or stealing the hot connecting routes before your buddies, or sticking someone with the Robber. Still, you're trying to accomplish certain goals before other players do, and when an opponent or two have plucked the high-point chits for gaining all Bavaria, I feel vexed...maybe more than vexed. Disgruntled even, I've gotta say. Enough so that I want to play again, and stick it to them next time. I agree with everything you have said here. I think Thurn & Taxis is a very good game. I was surprised to have gotten it from Tom. I saw the production quality, and thought I got a good deal. Then I played it, and quite frankly thought that Tom was a freak for not liking it. Turns out that Tom "likes" the game, but just doesn't think that it is a "great" game. So, right-on with everything you've said. I didn't mean to bash it too much for the theme, although I do think it's a "wierd" theme. I really enjoy Thurn & Taxis, and my whole reasoning for mentioning it on the show was to counter some of the "negative" press that Tom had given it in the past. Until Next Time...Sam.
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Sam,
Well, I sure won't argue with you on the "wierdness" factor of the theme! We visited my son for Family Weekend at college a couple weeks ago, and had a great time playing T&T with him and his roomies. I hadn't played it for a while, and had forgotten how much I've enjoyed it in the past, hence the above rant. If we make it to Origins next year, maybe we'll corral you into a session.
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I do believe that the basic game does have player interaction and confrontation. However, if you want even more interaction, play with the free Spielbox expansion. You do not even have to purchase the "official" expansion, you could just as easily play with some extra wooden cubes to represent the envelopes that come with the magazine. The game plays very different with the expansion and is a lot of fun....plus it forces you to pay attention to what your opponents are doing.
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I play T&T exclusively on BSW (haven't had a chance to play a F2F game yet), and I see defensive plays all the time. It isn't uncommon for people to be grabbing cards that obviously connects to your route whether they need it or not, just to prevent you from (or at least make it harder for you to) extending/completing your's. So while the confrontation is low, but the opportunities are definitely there if you choose to play it that way.
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I do not like Thurn & Taxis, but 1) I like the theme, acctualy I almost love the theme. My beloved grandfather (Who is know beging to suffer from, well some kind of dementia I guess. Forgetting stuff and haveing to move to a, a yes, I don't know the word in English. Home for old people or whatever.) used to work delivering mail, with trains (sorting it and so on, so the theme is a bit to early but...) and all my family have sometime or other worked in the post office (well almost all of it, on that side of the family to). So when I heard this theme I relly liked it) 2) Well I see the confrontation and experience it, although it could be more... ... But why don't I like it? Maybe it's because I generally don't like carddrawing games. Still I rather play this than Ticket to Ride, I just think that this game could have been made better some other way... maybe it's just a feeling in it... So now is there any trainpost games? edit: my grandfather died to night
Last edited on 2007-11-21 08:50:04 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
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I'm sorry to hear that, you and your family have my condolences.
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Quote: edit: my grandfather died to night My thoughts and prayers are with you also.
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tsievers wrote: Thurn & Taxis gets a lot of knocks on TDT. I'd like to argue in its favor. The two most frequent criticisms are: 1) the theme, and 2) the relative lack of opportunity for confrontation (a while back on TDT someone, maybe Tom? called it "four-player solitaire"). For me, it's not that it's a bad game, it's just that it doesn't do anything or scratch any gaming itch that TTR doesn't do much better. There didn't seem to be any real sense of tension or urgency in the decisions - "four-player solitaire" is probably quite close.
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I wouldn´t recommend Thurn and Taxis to annyone because it has these nice components, a nice graphic and foremost a very appealing theme, but the gameplay could not keep up with the expectations raised.
It is very easy to learn and could be used as a gateway game, but for non gamers this would hardly be addictive and draw them into boardgames.
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Since playing Thurn & Taxis, I thought it just played too much like Ticket to Ride, which I merely think of as an OK game. Neither of them have much of a theme, but at least Thurn & Taxis' theme is somewhat original. 
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It's a euro-game! Since when are we all that concerned about the theme?  Seriously, the theme just hasn't seemd to affect anyone I've played with although I confess that many of those players probably don't even KNOW the theme. I think T&T is an okay game and I'm always willing to play if someone else brings it up. I think there's enough player interaction in that I'm trying to score a certain region before someone else so I'll get more points. On the other hand, TTR is a game I'll rarely play. I don't think it's a bad game, but it's just not my cup of tea.
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I just don't like it. Sure there are opportunities for confrontation but its not just all that interesting. Sure you can screw people by wiping the board of cards but, in general, by doing so you're shooting yourself in the foot because you're taking time away from building your routes and upgrading your wagons. And, deep down, T&T is a race game at heart.
I agree with Tom. Its an okay game but nothing that we haven't seen done better elsewhere.
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I wanted to like T&T. Given the designer, maybe my expectation were to high.
My wife an I played a few times and the unanimous verdict was: Meh.
For the guy who designed Puerto Rico, San Juan, and Manhattan, the game felt it was lacking some essential spark.
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I agree with the majority of the sentiment here about T&T.
I bought T&T merely because I am a sucker for any game of the year winner. I heard some rumours that they was a little average, and nothing spectacular, but I didn't let it deter me. I wanted it, so I bought it. After my first game, I remember thinking, "That's it..."
I just find the game lacking. It sort of feels like it's been done, and it's been done in a more streamlined way, with a nicer map too. At the end of the game, I don't really feel like I accomplished anything. I built a really big cart... that has no effect... I connected a lot of different colors of cities, but I don't feel like I made any mail routes, just that I claimed cities. ( this most likely comes from the fact that when you put your houses on cities, you need to decide, do I put one on an entire color, or one on each color in my route. I don't feel like I made a route at all, because if I had, I would be able to claim everything in it)
Now, if T&T was 1 of only 10 or 15 games I had, I could see it leaving the shelf to get played, but as it stands, it just doesn't compare to some of its more fun brothers.
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We actually like Thurn & Taxis a lot more than Ticket To Ride (sorry Tom).
I think it feels a little more gamey than TTR.
Anne plays a lot of games of TTR on the computer and likes that but face to face we prefer T&T. Maybe we're just fooled into thinking there's more deapth but that's the way it feels.
Also I think the game is prettier than TTR with it's more muted colours.
Just my 2 cents (or öre here in Sweden)
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Posted Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:23 pm
