I can understand the frustration. But if we didn't pre-order, the game may not have been made. Most likely it would have but our pre-orders helped get it out quickly.

You are also comparing apples to oranges. The pre-order guaranteed that you got a copy. Using Tanga as a measuring stick is not reliable because 1) you have no idea what a price may be on a particular game and 2) you have no guarnatee of seeing the game. If the price you paid for the game on Tanga - available for what? 20 minutes and on their schedule - was the price you could pay at ThoughtHammer or FunAgain, then it would be a different story.

If you would rather wait by the computer and hope that your VG games come up on Tanga for a much cheaper price, then by no means pre-order from VG. It is a decision you have to make. And if enough people make the same decision, then maybe VG will get the hint and either not drop so many games on Tanga for so cheap, or re-consider their MSRP, and subsequently, pre-order discount pricing.

On a personal note, I don't think we will see Hannibal makes as many trips on Tanga as Die Macher. But that is just my opinion.

To those who have there preorder SHUT UP. It easy to say well its the thought that counts and so and so when you have it already. But when your waiting with NO commucitaion from these people and then you see a DISCOUNTER like tanga (not a game store) selling it, it makes your blood boil. The point of pre ordering, simple to see that a game gets made. The BENEFITS of pre ordering (cause there has to be something in it for you to) is that you get the game before everyone else. To those who can't see that, its too bad for you.

John,
your frustration is justified, not having the pre-order at this point is unacceptable.

That being said the OP was talking about not pre-ordering in order to save $10. Ten F-ing dollars? You pre-order to get the game made, the 10 extra dollars I spent vs getting the game this morning on tanga is worth every penny? why? because the game got reprinted. Before the reprint these things were selling for close to $300 on ebay. Who cares about ten bucks?

Also pre-order bonus stuff will be shipped eventually and that will more than value $10.

so for the last time. Pre-order tog et a game made, not to be the 1st to have it, not to be the guy who paid the least for it. It is a shame that the current trend of flooding the market with throw away titles has cheapened the perceived value of a game so much that saving 5 to 10 bucks on a game you will have and enjoy for the rest of your life means anything.

Get over it folks, VG messed up on getting the order out in time. They still produced a qualit product that was previously unavailable.

-M

Man, 10 dollars. You could have went to McDonald's and got me a cheeseburger or 3.

BTW, Tanga is sold out. How many copies do you suppose they had to generate interest in their site with a "hot game"? 10? 20? It caused me to click on their site today for the first time in months.

I really don't care that tanga sold this or at what price. What I can not deal with is those who already have this game telling me that it is no big deal. Bull. It is a big deal. And if you are a small business catering to a niche market it is a Very big deal. And if I ever hear anything from Valley, I will shut up. Thats my beef.

I am suffering from pre-order anxiety syndrome as well. I live in the same country as the publisher, and watch the postings on the 'Geek of all of these lovely people getting their pre-orders in, buying it at Essen and now getting it on Tanga for a reduced cost. I still sit here staring out the window waiting for the postman. Will I see it at Toys R Us before I get it at my door (note to trollers: this previous statement is intended as an obviously facetious comment and not my actual expectation)

I am a reasonable fellow. I understand that there are difficulties involved in dealing with international companies/shipping, especially for a publisher with only one previous game under their belts. In fact, it was their success with Die Macher that encouraged me to pre-order this game.

Still, I would be a fool to just jump right back in on the next pre-order (I am already committed to a couple more of their games - these commitments were made prior to the current fiasco). Yes, it is only a game and yes, it is only $50 but no, I do not believe that we should excuse all errors and lack of communications by the company.

The loss of faith I see posted online is well-deserved, and I believe that they will have to work hard to regain it.

For the sake of covering all the relevant threads, I'd like to attach my comments here. I'll separate my comments as they came from different threads, though they are both relevant here.

In regards to Tanga:
_________________________________________________________________________

Here's the Valley Games stand on this issue:

First, Tanga has done nothing wrong. I have been in contact with Tanga directly on this issue in the last hour. Tanga sourced the games from a legitimate supplier, and have every right to sell the game. Tanga actively searched out the game to sell on their website as a "prestige item"; something to create some extra excitement. Tanga has reported that the game was sold in "extremely limited quantity" in a sale which lasted approximately 20 minutes.

Valley Games is honoured that Tanga would actively seek out our products for sale on their website as a prestige item.

Now, for our part in this matter:

Valley Games, up until this morning, was unaware that this Tanga sale had occurred. I can publicly confirm that Valley Games, nor our distributor/fulfillment partner PSI authorized this action, nor have any real ability to police this activity that has clearly originated elsewhere. We are now working to determine who supplied these copies so that we can work with them to help them understand our policies on these types of sales.

We regret the unfortunate timing of this sale, and ask for your understanding on this issue.
________________________________________________________________________

In regards to the preorder system in general:

________________________________________________________________________

Thank your for your praise, comments and *genuine* criticisms. We're still going through some growing-pains with our preorder system and working to improve it.

Despite having a delivery rate of nearly 96% (as of two days ago) for our American preorder customers (and similar results for other regions where Hannibal has been sent), we're not satisfied. We're taking steps to make changes to the way our preorders ship, and we're also looking at a major overhaul of our "750 Special" program to help further benefit our customers.

Yes, we do learn from the past, and yes, we are working to make things better.
_______________________________________________________________________

I pre-ordered this game to: 1)because I wanted the game and 2)because the pre-order price was discounted.

I do not have the game yet. I could have bought the game now for at or less than the pre-order price and already be playing it. So by pre-ordering I got nothing.

Enough of this bull about I would never have seen this game reprinted if I had not pre-ordered it. Those who did not pre-order got the game, not I who pre-ordered. Valley Games has sold my copy to the game stores and discounters so they could meet the demands that they considered more important to them. Those who did not pre-order (did not make a commitment) got the game and got it at the same or better price than I. Not only that, they got it after seeing the quality etc. while I purchased it sight unseen.

Not receiving the game in a timely manner, while upsetting, I could deal with. Not getting any communication on when or if I will receive it that takes me over the brink. I've purchased over 100 games on E-Bay and from other sources and never been treated like this.

I don't know, I got my game, but my gaming buddy who pre-ordered it before I did has not received anything, not even an email/reply to his multiple emails.
Now I understand that this is a very small company, and perhaps they're doing this in their spare time,BUT, you take people's money, you own them good customer service.
Not happening as of yet.... I am going to sell my game to my friend if he continues to be left in the dark.
It really is business 101, your customers Demand Communication if there are issues w/their orders.
VG has a nice pool of goodwill, but it appears to be draining....
I hope they put out a communique and we can all move on.

Because you want the game to be released and you don't live your life in an egocentric philosophy?

If it helps, I preordered, got the game a week or two ago, and have not done jack shit with it. Which is the situation I imagine probably 90% of those whining about it are in.

Actually I'm unlike most here apparently; I think that getting jacked on the price when I am loyal enough to preorder is a more grievous sin than having to wait a week or two extra for it.

or maybe you want the game to be released and you do live your life in an egocentric philosophy?

1) It is hypocritical to pretend otherwise.
2) There any many benefits to me personally of Hannibal being released...

You obviously pre-ordered for different reasons than me. Doesn't mean I can't have an opinion on it.

I was satisifed just seeing the thing reprinted, thought VG was too ambitious on their original release plan of late June, and would have been fine if they needed some more time. As it is, I got me pre-order about a week and a half ago, set it up on my table where it has remained unplayed to this day.

Not trying to rub it in. But when someone tells me to SHUT UP, it just makes me want to talk more. The benefit to me? I helped finance the game so we could even have this conversation. If you don't want that benefit, don't pre-order from VG. Most likely someone will take your place anyway.

I was not telling you it was no big deal. I was agreeing that it is unacceptable that your pre-order is not in your hands at this point.

My point however is that the OP was complaining that they did not get the game for the lowest price and 1st, and IMHO this is not why you pre order a game from any company.

-M

Ok I get your point. And if you have read the other thread you would know by now, that I definately qualify for the Jackass of the Week award.
I was a wee bit (understatement) frustrated this morning. And I blasted a whole lot of people who didn't derserve it. And for that I do most sincerly apologize. But, in my very weak defence, the lack of communication with valley drove me off the edge. I better now. Much better.

So say your sorry and buy a VG fan microbadge. The other guy with it is getting lonely.


http://boardgamegeek.com/browse/microbadge/2399

I'm sorry

LOL. You're taking this penance thing seriously.

I don't understand. How the fact that you got the game now cancels the whole thing?
is it some cultural gap I don't get ? After all, almost the whole world got their game before you, and you have a bunch of reasons to be pissed off... I'm sorry, I was following the discussion, and I thought I got it, but now I'm completely lost

It doesn't cancel everthing out. I am truly sorry for the way that I acted towards many truly undeserving people. I went about it totally wrong and I reget what I did.

But, what i said before still stands. It was never about Tanga selling the game or what price that had the game at. Yes when I saw it this morning, I flipped. I am a loyal tanga customer and I have no ill will towards tanga. I also bear no ill will to valley because of the sale. The more games they sell, the more money they make, the greater chance they reissue great games. My gripe was about the lack of customer service. Never received any communication what so ever about the statis of the pre order. It seemed like Valley had turned up there noses and said 'you don't matter'. Am I upset, you bet. Does getting the game help? A little. But nothing has changed. I still think the lack of customer service is a bad business model.

I hope that clarifies things somewhat.

I was that lonely "other guy."

It's good to have a penitent patrel as a cohort, but what about you, ColtFan76? Are you fan enough? I'd love to see you over here on this side of the microbadge.

Smiles,
-trawlerman

*Edited b/c I forgot to quote the post I was responding to.

Soon enough, trawlerman. I have/had quite a few Microbadges on the chopping blocks so was saving GG to see which ones needed to be rescued first. Since VG-fan has been "safe," I was looking to protect some others first.

The complaint about pre-order vs discount mail order is not a really valid comparison. Not including the minis you will eventually receive, your pre-order purchase is what allowed the game to be printed in the first place and that there would be copies to buy wholesale on the internet.

It's the same paradigm as with tech early adopters. Unless someone buys the v1.0 there will never be a vastly improved v2.0. Think of that $10 you spent buying direct as an investment in the future of game reprints.

Prior to all the fuss about not receiving pre-orders I was very complimentary of Valley Games because they (Kevin Nesbitt) were very good in communicating with me about the status of my order. Then everyone including retailers received their copy while I was left in the dark about the status of mine. Finally, in a fit of disappointment I wrote a derogatory note on this forum. Now Valley Games has rubbed salt in my wound by not only having the game show up on my doorstep later in the same day by FedEx, but providing me with a game with high quality components complete and undamaged. It's one of the best in this regard I have ever purchased and certainly has caused me to look at some of their other products for purchase.

I generally play most of my games with my son so it's usually a two-some. If others of you have purchased any Valley Games in the past that you would recommend that are good for two players in particular, please let me know.

Again, my apologies to Valley and all of you who had to read my previous tripe and congratulations and thanks to Valley Games on an extraordinarily good product. Now let me go so I can go wash the egg off my face.