geek
Rules | Subscriptions | Bookmarks | Search | Account | Moderators
Recommend
21
13 Posts
New Thread | Printer Friendly | Subscribe  | Bookmark
Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Eric Grutzmacher
Avatar
06
A Game of Thrones » Forums » Reviews
A Good Game, but...
Over the past five months, I’ve had the chance to immerse myself into A Game of Thrones (GoT)by Fantasy Flight a number of times. And after those five months, I figured that it was time to write out my feelings and judgments on this one.

**As a side note, I’m not planning to give a detailed run down of all the rules. The rules are posted online on the FFG web site and aren’t that long.**

Overview

Game of Thrones is loosely based off of the George RR Martin novel of the same name. I say loosely, because the theme doesn’t really drive the game. You could take this game and reapply a space or historical theme, and the overall experience wouldn’t change.

Players represent five of the major houses of Westeros, who are fighting for control of the continent. They are the houses of Lannister, Stark, Tyrell, Greyjoy, and Baratheon. Through use of diplomacy with other players and the clever placement of orders, each player tries to be the first house to control seven strongholds (which are printed on the board). If no player gets to seven, then the house with the majority of strongholds after ten rounds is the winner (with player highest on the throne track winning the tie breaker). There is no luck involved in this game.

Components

Like most FFG titles, the components for GoT are outstanding. The game comes with a full color set of rules that is easy to read and understand. The rules have examples, graphics, and it is logically put together. After one read through of the rules, I think you should be able to play.

The board is typical FFG quality. It’s a large and colorful map of Westeros, with boxes on the board to mark the round #, supply level, and standing with [power levels]. The battle cards and Westeros cards are your typical game cards, with quality artwork of the various characters from the novels printed on them. You’re also provided with LARGE cardboard pieces of the Iron Throne, Valyrian Sword, and Raven.

Your military units are represented with small, painted, wooden pieces. Their not bad playing pieces, but I would have gone with larger cardboard counters with graphics of knights, ships, and soldiers (similar to Britannia). I think it would have brought out the theme of A Song of Ice and Fire more than the wood does.

Game Play

Mechanically, GoT isn’t very difficult. There are basically three phases: The Westeros phase, Planning Phase, and Action Phase.

Westeros Phase:
During this phase of play, the players will take the top card from each of the three Westeros card decks and flip them face up. And then in order of the decks (1-3) the players carry out the actions printed on the card. These actions include mustering troops, adjusting your supply level, bidding power tokens for control Iron Throne, Valyrian Sword, and Raven, fighting the Wildings, etc. All of the details for these cards are covered in the rule book.

Planning Phase:
After the Westeros phase is completed, players will secretly allocate orders to the various military units on the board that they control. These include:

RAID: Allows the player to cancel a raid order, support order, or consolidate power order in an adjacent territory.

MARCH: Allows you to move your units, possibly into battle.

DEFENSE: Adds bonus strength to your units if you think you’re going to be attacked.

SUPPORT: Will allow those units to add their military strength to a battle in an adjacent territory.

CONSOLIDATE POWER: Gives the player more power tokens for claiming territory and for bidding on the influence tracks.

Action Phase:
During this phase, each player (in the order of where their marker is on the throne track) executes their orders one at a time. First all raids are conducted. Each player is allowed to execute one order. After everyone had a chance to execute a raid, then the first player may execute a second raid order and so forth. When all raids are conducted, then player one executes a march order (along with battles that occur). And then the second player and so forth. Then you play the consolidate orders. After there are no more consolidate power orders on the board, the round is over. The round marker moves up to the next level, new Westeros cards are drawn, and another round is played.

After round ten the game is over. The game also ends when a player controls seven strongholds.

MY JUDGEMENTS

The Positives

Before I go off on it’s shortcomings, let me highlight what I did like from the game. First, I really like the idea of the influence tracks and blind bidding for control of them. Its one of the few times in the game where a lot of suspense is built up and surprises can happen. I like the fact that turn order isn’t determined by the position of your seat around the table, or even by your House (except at the beginning). I love games where player order is changed and you have a say in when you go in relation to other players.

And secondly, I like the player negotiations that go on between the various houses. There have been a lot of comments that compare this game to Diplomacy, and I think that there is good reason to make those comparisons. It even has the lies, stabs, and alliances. Take that for what it is. To me, that adds some fun to the game. It makes me think that GoT would be a better online game, like Diplomacy.

The Negatives

I went into my plays of Game of Thrones SOOOO wanting to like this game. I was excited to play it after reading the rules. I loved the theme of A Song of Ice and Fire and thought this game was going to turn into one of my favorites. My first play was disappointing, but I wanted play again because I thought there was potential here (especially since it’s popular here on BGG). After a second play, I kept thinking there was more potential to the game. But, I don’t see it getting any better. Reasons being...

1. Battles are Boring: There is absolutely no tension during a battle with another house. Each player has perfect information. You are allowed to see each others battle cards and so there is no surprise. The strengths of each unit are added up, throw in a battle card, and highest number wins. Where’s the tension in that? People laud GoT for the fact that there is no luck, but I think that this detracts from the game. Throwing a die or dice in a wargame is not a “luckfest.” Some sort of randomness in the battle would at least add a bit of uncertainty to battles.

2. “When Will You Die!”: Another complaint I have is that it is really, really hard to force another house to lose many units in battle. You know what battle cards the other person has, so if you know that you’re going to lose you can still protect yourself from losing a unit. In the novel, there is carnage everywhere after battles. Not so with the game.

3. Steep Learning Curve: While the mechanics aren’t difficult, mastering them does take a number of plays of the game. An experienced player can absolutely crush a newbie. Experience teaches how to cleverly use raids and support orders and how to bring your army across the board in one turn through the use of your march orders. So this isn’t really an issue if you are playing this in a tournament or you have the same group of players playing over and over at the same skill level. But I think most of us will usually have one or two people who haven’t played it before and so it is an issue.

4. Unsatisfying End: I’m amazed that I’m saying this, but I actually think this game ends too quickly. Ten rounds isn’t a lot of time and I don’t think seven strongholds is a lot. Too often this game will end with one player taking advantage of a weaker player and grabbing the two strongholds that he needs to bring him up to seven. I might be alone on this, but I don’t think GoT feels rewarding after you finish it. There’s no feeling that the game I just played was “epic” or “told a story.” I don’t see myself ever saying, “Do you remember that time we played Game of Thrones, and ....” There’s more of a “that’s it?” feel to it.

5. Game Balance: There has already been enough written here on BGG about the game balance, but just to recap: If you draw House Lannister, you’re pretty much screwed.

Conclusion
So I guess in the end, I’m going to slap a 7 rating on it and I don’t expect it to go up. I don’t hate this game at all, but neither do I really love it. I’d play it again, but if I had the choice I would choose something else.
Charles Hasegawa
flag
Avatar
0506070809
Personally, I like that the battles are deterministic. You have to decide if its worth winning when attacked by playing a card that you know you will need to win a future attack.. However, I understand why you would think the battles are boring. I'd suggest trying the first expansion, which would address at least two of your complaints. The new house cards feel much more variable. The ports change up the balance for Lannister.
David Wiens
flag
Avatar
Partizan242 wrote:

1. Battles are Boring: There is absolutely no tension during a battle with another house. Each player has perfect information. You are allowed to see each others battle cards and so there is no surprise.


I thought that you only knew what your opponent has left in his hand, not what card he was going to play. Aren't all house cards kept hidden until they're played simultaneously?
An added part of the tension is that you declare a battle before you call for support. So, you don't really know what your strength is going to be going in to a battle because you don't know if your supporters will actually support you or turn on you.
Matt Epp
flag
You've made some notable observations, some of which my group would sympathize with.

1.Battles

Theres not a lot of surprise in the battles, but there can be intensity in both the call for support and the double-bluff type playing of house cards.

Sure you he can win if he plays the 3, but if he knows that I know he'll win, will he think that I'll play a 0 or a 1 just to burn the card? If so I can play a 2 because I can tie and I'm higher on the fiefdom (sword) track. etc, etc.

2.When will you die

This I sympathize with the most. I don't mind it the way it is, but it can be remarkable hard to kill someones pieces. We've instituted a house rule that if you win by 2 or more strength you add 1 to your inflicted casualties.

3.Learning curve

ALso true, the first game is kind of overwhelming, as with most FFG titles.
The second game you start seeing the subtleties of the game
The third game you can begin playing with cunning and saavy.

4.End

When a player wins, it's because the other players failed to stop him or see his potential endgame gambit. All players need to be on their toes, forming short/long term alliances.

5. Lannister is only screwed if Greyjoy is a bat rastard. This is much better set in the ACoK expansion.

Rick Holzgrafe
flag
Avatar
06070809
I like the fact that few units are destroyed in most battles. It makes each game into a long wrestling match. Winning a battle gets you a territory, but that's usually all you get; you haven't crushed your opponent and you still have to worry about what he'll do to you next round.

As for the lack of randomness in battles: the tension in AGoT comes from not knowing what your opponents will do rather than from not knowing what the dice will do.
Tony Dehner
flag
Avatar
05060708
If you want a little more randomness in your battles, you may want to consider using an optional rule from the Clash Of Kings expansion, the "Clash Of Kings Battle Variant." The following is quoted directly from the ACOK rulebook:

Quote:
Proceed with a battle as usual, until it is time for each
player to secretly pick a House Card. Instead of choosing
just one House Card, a player must now secretly choose
three cards from his hand. After both players have
secretly picked their three cards, the opponent draws a
random card from the three. The two House Cards that
were not drawn are immediately returned to their owners'
hands.

The two cards that were drawn are now the House Cards
that will be used in the battle, and the battle continues as
normal.

When using this game option, a player returns all of his
House Cards to his hand after using or discarding his
fifth House Card (normally this would happen when the
seventh card is played). Thus a player will never have
less than three House Cards in his hand at any one time.

Eric Grutzmacher
Avatar
06
clockwirk wrote:

I thought that you only knew what your opponent has left in his hand, not what card he was going to play. Aren't all house cards kept hidden until they're played simultaneously?

You are correct, but if you know that your opponent still has a 3 level battle card and that card will win him the battle, he still most likely would play it. I guess the battle variant in CoK could change that a bit.
Quote:
An added part of the tension is that you declare a battle before you call for support. So, you don't really know what your strength is going to be going in to a battle because you don't know if your supporters will actually support you or turn on you.

Sure, but how often does it fail? Many times you will have your own units in support and so there isn't a tension. Other times, you usually have come to an agreement with the ally so that a victory benefits you both. So maybe my group isn't as nasty as yours.
No. 4 son contemplates the destruction of his father's forces
flag
Avatar
0708
I've not played as much as I would have liked but it seems to me there is a lot of uncertainty at the order placement and order resolution stages. Moving first can be decisive but moving last can be devastating.

Battles may not directly result in the loss of troops but usually cause a denial of resources to an opponent, be it crowns, supply, mustering points or the ability to provide support to other areas. A well timed denial of supply can remove vital troops from the board. Also retreated are very vunerable to a second attack as they providing no combat strength and cannot retreat again. In the last but one game I played I witnessed a lone stark knight destroy a 6 strength Grejoy army. Unexpected support from Baratheon allowed Stark defend the Greyjoy attack and then counter attacked with it's own march order.

It is really a game of cunning and manoeuvre rather than war.
Adam McLean
flag
Nogser wrote:

It is really a game of cunning and manoeuvre rather than war.



I think that quote sums up what I was thinking as I was reading your post. It's not a wargame that's designed to have a measure of uncertainty, it's a strategy game where you try to outmaneuvre your opponents.
Svein Main
flag
I agree. Waiting a year for the right time and crowd playing this game. but it was like you said.

Its better games to use 2-3 hours on. For us it was very static, with not many westeros-phases, and not much nights and footmen in the game. Not much happened, just the time went away.

I prefer Nexus Ops insted, if you want some light wargames like this is, or just play Wallenstein. Much better!!!
Damien Browne
flag
Avatar
Partizan242 wrote:

1. Battles are Boring: There is absolutely no tension during a battle with another house. Each player has perfect information. You are allowed to see each others battle cards and so there is no surprise. The strengths of each unit are added up, throw in a battle card, and highest number wins. Where’s the tension in that? People laud GoT for the fact that there is no luck, but I think that this detracts from the game. Throwing a die or dice in a wargame is not a “luckfest.” Some sort of randomness in the battle would at least add a bit of uncertainty to battles.

I find that the tension lies not in the battle itself but in the threat of battle. Will it come this turn? Am I forced to play the defence +2 or can I get away with a consolidate to build a fortress? (Clash of Kings expansion.)

Also, using the clash of kings cards, there are often more than one viable choices for your opponent to play, and you usually have a good counter against each, but not the same card each time. Will he try the brute force, in which case you can head him off with a power card, or will he play the power card in which you need your brute force?
(Again, clash of kings, or newer.)

Thirdly, regarding the later comment about how brutal your group is, regarding alliances - our group never make pacts or agreements, we merely point out things, like "if he wins this battle, he'll be set up to win the game next turn", etc. That way, players can make the right "alliance" choice, without an actual alliance. The reason we do this - oddly enough - is because we have a player who has no qualms whatsoever of breaking pacts. It's merely a matter of when.

Quote:
2. "When Will You Die!": Another complaint I have is that it is really, really hard to force another house to lose many units in battle. You know what battle cards the other person has, so if you know that you’re going to lose you can still protect yourself from losing a unit. In the novel, there is carnage everywhere after battles. Not so with the game.

Again, this has been addressed by others. But further expansions give much better options. Leaders that provide an extra sword - cards with triple swords, or cards that can externally provide the defence against a sword.
And even with the fact that it is hard to die, it still creates quandrums. Should I split my force up and be susceptible to battle? Should I consolidate and risk being over-supply on a muster?

Quote:

3. Steep Learning Curve: While the mechanics aren't difficult, mastering them does take a number of plays of the game. An experienced player can absolutely crush a newbie. Experience teaches how to cleverly use raids and support orders and how to bring your army across the board in one turn through the use of your march orders. So this isn't really an issue if you are playing this in a tournament or you have the same group of players playing over and over at the same skill level. But I think most of us will usually have one or two people who haven't played it before and so it is an issue.

Agreed. Thankfully we have a group who all play it regularly.

Quote:

4. Unsatisfying End: I'm amazed that I'm saying this, but I actually think this game ends too quickly. Ten rounds isn't a lot of time and I don’t think seven strongholds is a lot. Too often this game will end with one player taking advantage of a weaker player and grabbing the two strongholds that he needs to bring him up to seven. I might be alone on this, but I don’t think GoT feels rewarding after you finish it. There’s no feeling that the game I just played was “epic” or “told a story.” I don’t see myself ever saying, "Do you remember that time we played Game of Thrones, and ...." There's more of a "that's it?" feel to it.


10 rounds can take three hours, and I find that's plenty enough. If you're not finished before then, it's clear that it would usually take a lot longer to complete, or there is a clear contender. If it's close, it would take an extremely long time to make a difference, so the tiebreaker comes into play - for good reason.
If someone manages to take a win quicker, that's great play.

And actually, I get more of a "thank god that's done with, then" when I'm losing, and a "Take THAT!" when I am winning or in contention to win. But in our group we take an extra reward from having beat particular players, or from having a connecting group of wins.

Quote:

5. Game Balance: There has already been enough written here on BGG about the game balance, but just to recap: If you draw House Lannister, you're pretty much screwed.

The only win I ever had in the base game was actually with Lannister.

I see your points, and you're justified in having your point of view, and you've taken the time to try the game properly.
I just want to show that I see these things from the other side of the coin.
Ove Hillep
flag
Avatar
08
Partizan242 wrote:

1. Battles are Boring


Boring? We have had battles 13 against 15 without house cards - is that boring?
We have changed the rules a bit. Looking into another's hand shows impolite manners. Usually we only allow to look at the used house cards if even that. And why should You let the opponent to outwit Yourself? You should always look that Your forces have some backup and a way out. I'm not dice-phobic but even a slightest thought about dice in AGoT makes me really annoyed.


Partizan242 wrote:

2. “When Will You Die!”


In the novel there are some battles where most of the force was destroyed. I've seen so many similar situations in this game.
Ok. In the base game You have maximum two swords - that means You can strike down two units. As You may have read from the rules: each unit represents a large force of warriors and even one or two casualties should represent a stunning loss for the losing side. And it is. If You lose a footman it's not that bad but a knight is something else. Your army strength loses two points and if Your opponent is smart he would have seen where to You retreat and attack You there while Your men are still weak from combat.

Partizan242 wrote:

3. Steep Learning Curve


I can't argue about this point. It is very time-consuming to master all these techniques that help You to win. Luckily we also happen to have a great group. But some new guys say that it is too damn hard :)

Partizan242 wrote:

4. Unsatisfying End


That is true too. Four or five hours that we usually spend behind the board seems to be too short. But trying to solve Your problem I'd suggest You to find another players who don't care about winning. I've had great time losing when I played Tyrell. I try to stay on my track - if I've made some alliances I sometimes hold to them (sometimes not). But I've always supported players (if I'm not occupied with someone else) who are to be defeated. I may make some enemies but if I succeed I've got myself a new ally. Mostly when I betray someone it is mostly because he/she has become too strong (just like Russia and Germany in WWII). Mostly... :devil:

Partizan242 wrote:

5. Game Balance


Lannisters? Lannisters have much better place then Tyrell or Stark. They are usually doomed only if the wage war against Greyjoys but if they succeed in making them their allies then the others usually have no chance to withstand the attacks of lions and krakens.

I'm sorry if I went too emotional and hurt someone's feelings. It's one of my favorite games (the other is A Storm of Swords :shake: )

And I love those wooden figures. Plastic and cardboard would never achieve something like that.
Joshua Lobkowicz
flag
Avatar
050709
Partizan242 wrote:
Unsatisfying End: I’m amazed that I’m saying this, but I actually think this game ends too quickly. Ten rounds isn’t a lot of time and I don’t think seven strongholds is a lot. Too often this game will end with one player taking advantage of a weaker player and grabbing the two strongholds that he needs to bring him up to seven. I might be alone on this, but I don’t think GoT feels rewarding after you finish it. There’s no feeling that the game I just played was “epic” or “told a story.” I don’t see myself ever saying, “Do you remember that time we played Game of Thrones, and ....” There’s more of a “that’s it?” feel to it.


Really?
For my game group, there is not a week that goes by without someone saying "Do you remember that time we played A Game of Thrones and . . . Josh took over Joe's base for nooooooooo reason"

I do remember it.
So does Joe.
Surprisingly so does everyone else.
And you know what?






I'd do it again. :devil:
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
BoardGameGeek and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.