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Greg Poulos
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05060708
As a huge fan of the RTS I was really excited when this game was announced. Then I became less excited as I learned more about it and it looked less and less like the RTS. I even passed by a chance to pick up a copy at GenCon 07 after watching a couple demos. It just didn't look like the game I wanted it to be.
Then it came out and I read a few detailed reviews and my mind started to except that while it may not be the game I wanted, it still might be a cool game. So I picked up a copy and played a few games, and the more I played the more I liked it.
I like the variation of the setup each game.
I like how cool the units look.
I like the tech upgrades and combat card deck idea.
I like the workersavailable resources mechanic.
I like how there are several different ways to play each race.

Then over the last few weeks I've had the opportunity to play the game a lot. Twice one saturday, then once on tuesday, and three more times the next saturday. This is pretty rare or me, I'm usually the type to only play a game once or twice before trying something else.

A few things started to pop up that caused a few doubts to creep up in my mind that this may not be the second coming after all.
Zealots should be tougher for what they cost.
Once the few different options for each race are explored it's just a matter of choosing which one to go for.
Too few turns in the game, no way to change strategy midstream to react to the situation.
Lack of defensive abilities makes it impossible to fight a two front war if one opponent is unopposed elsewhere.
Very unforgiving. A few workers lost in a mining accident can be all it takes to set you back far enough that you have no hope of recovery.

All these things can be dealt with and justified, but then the order token game system rears its ugly head.
It seemed like a cool idea at first, but in a game with so many other cool ideas, is it really needed?
I can't see the RTS equivalent for it and it causes nothing but problems. It doesn't make sense that because the zerg want to research on my planet i'm unable to build the necessary transport to execute the mobilize order I have on another planet that happens to be the only visible order. This turn is ruined for no good reason and the game very well could be lost.
It causes nothing but trouble in new (and even not so new) players. "oh crap, i flipped the wrong one, can i flip this other one instead?"
It gives a tremendous advantage to the player to your left for the entire game.
It's too restrictive in not allowing flexibility.

To get the queuing feeling, perhaps having a system where you choose your orders, but they're not tied to having to wait until they're on top of a stack to execute. More akin to roborally. Including a way to change orders mid turn for a cost. A couple minerals or something...
Possibly mix up the turn order each turn, similar to Power Grid (or many others). Could be based on CP, or an auction.
Just not have the orders set at all at the beginning of a turn. Have the same choices and the same number of orders, but decide which one to execute and where on your turn. Who could object to that?

All in all, in a game with a lot of new and different game systems, the order token system is unnecessary. I think the biggest flaw is that the turn order never changes and you'd be a fool to attack the player to your left, not because they're a better player, but because they can always act before you do. It's a shame that such a great game could be brought down by this issue, surely someone noticed it along the way...

I hope a few days time will help me deal with it a bit better, but for now, I have no desire to play Starcraft again. I got some good plays out of it, but now I'd really rather just play something else.
Last edited on 2008-02-10 16:31:26 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Brian Dudley
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I think you are, but I'll ask anyways. You are taking into account the moving first player marker right? This means there comes a time where the player on your left is not always before you.

Though, actually, now that I think about it. I've always felt people going after me gives them more power. :)
Jeb Adams
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0708
I'll buy it from you, cheap. I would love the opportunity to be disappointed by this game.
matt dalrymple
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If I have anything in trade that you would be interested in, let me know :) Tried this once and have been dieing to get a copy :)
Dave J McWeasely
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Nice review. Succinct and to the point. It doesn't take a million bad features to bring down a game, just one.

In a six player game lasting about 6 turns the player to your left will place orders after you 5/6ths of the time. Mostly this sucks, as you can't reliably execute the "build guys here, then attack him there" manuver without being blocked and slaughtered.

However, you can, 5/6ths of the time, successfully execute the "I get the last mobilize on this planet, your base is toast if I live that long" manuver.

I think the solution to this is to go into the turn break with enough guys to stop an invasion cold. Numbers are everything in this game. Sorry Protoss, numbers are for Zerg!.

My current thinking about the 'toss is: Zealots are weak but occasionally very stubborn about dying (8 health!?). This is their main strength. If the Toss are going to go for any units besides Archons, about 60% of Protoss production (and hopefully 100% of their casualties) should be taken up by Zealots. You need to have a lot of units to stave off invasions. The only units even vaguely cheap enough are Zealots. So that's what you have to build.

Oh, and get Archons. They're pretty much wonder weapons.
Mark T
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Keep in mind some of the variations they talk about in the rules, like team play, and expecially the Elimination rules (the games will be much longer with this one.). Unfortunately this won't help the situation where if you have a crappy planet setup to start...
J T Leone
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I agree. The strategy is pretty linear. Tanks are garbage. Archons are godly. Positioning has too strong of an influence in this game.

I wanted to like it. I loved reading the rules. Yet implimentation fails again. Oh Fantasy Flight...
Dave J McWeasely
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What's wrong with Tanks? Tanks are good.
Geo
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0405060708
AbeLincoln wrote:
Too few turns in the game, no way to change strategy midstream to react to the situation.
Lack of defensive abilities makes it impossible to fight a two front war if one opponent is unopposed elsewhere.
Very unforgiving. A few workers lost in a mining accident can be all it takes to set you back far enough that you have no hope of recovery.

All these things can be dealt with and justified, but then the order token game system rears its ugly head.


As usual sooner or later FFG will release an expansion ($$$) to patch the game... (see also Doom).
Chris Turner
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Nexus Ops is the cure.
Greg Poulos
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05060708
well now, let's not be hasty. i got lots of games i don't like with pieces that aren't nearly as cool that i don't trade away ;).

yes, we pass the 1st player token. it is tempting to take advantage of that one turn where you have the advantage, but it's usually best not to poke a sleeping bear.

my title may have been a bit sensationalist, but you gotta get eyeballs on the post :). i'm sure i'll end up playing again, though maybe the protoss just aren't for me. the Archons certainly cut a mean swath, perhaps i just didn't play them well. a bit more deliberate approach may be in order. slower expansion and keep my forces together.
i think i do prefer the zerg and humans though.
now that i'm thinking about it again though, the order system does bug me a bit, hopefully there will be an expansion that addresses the issue. i'd preorder that now. (even cooler would be a 'Battles of the Third Age' equivalent)

yes, nexus ops is an excellent game, i should probably pull that out again for a fresh comparison.
Johannes Goslar
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Pass the token to the right and there is no problem with the player sitting left.:laugh:

Last edited on 2008-02-16 05:39:44 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Scotty Pruitt
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05060708
-I like feeling mentally drained after a game and suppose this leads me to enjoying Starcraft's order system.

-The-guy-to-your-left predicament is a problem. My only refute: everyone has a guy to their left...

-The game does feel short. However, if it wasn't a 3 hourish affair, it wouldn't get played in our group.

Overall, I enjoy the game. However, I do think it feels "clunky" in a lot of places. Maybe this one should have baked a little longer.