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Dirk Knemeyer
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Catan: Cities & Knights » Forums » Reviews
Catan Cities & Knights: not a bad game, but not one I would recommend
When my eldest son brought Settlers of Catan back with him from summer camp four years ago it brought heavy board gaming into our family and helped accelerate my return to serious gaming as well. We've played the core Settlers of Catan game many times and had great fun in those sessions.

So it was that we decided to expand out and try the Cities and Knights version as well. As the title of this review indicates, it is not a bad game. However, the amount of complexity and gameplay time it adds to Settlers of Catan really turns it into something of a different game. In our house, Settlers is a 1-2 hour game. Cities & Knights adds at least an hour onto that. Plus, the various additions to the game raise the game a full level of weight/complexity, making it harder to teach and get started with. If a game is going to be more of medium complexity and take over three hours, there are much better and more interesting game to play that expanding Settlers of Catan into the Cities & Knights version. It is a decent game and worth playing, but why restrict yourself to a sub-optimal expanded core game than a game designed to be longer and more complex to begin with?

Here are some of the differences and my thoughts about them:

1. Introduction of an invading barbarian fleet, and knights that players can build to protect against barbarians, as well as provide tactical advantages against other players. This is perhaps the worst part of the Cities & Knights expansion. Albeit with limited plays, we've never once had a successful barbarian attack. People build up enough initial knights to prevent an early attack, and the cities do not go up quickly enough to outpace further knight development. It is just a huge ado about nothing. So, if you reduce the idea of a barbarian invasion to an afterthought, all of the rules and infrastructure around knights are very little bang for very little buck. Sure, knights can do some interesting things like block roads, but between the costs for their purchase, promotion, activation and re-activation, it is way too much for something of nominal value. In addition, the introduction of "city walls" are similarly wasted thanks to the impotence of the "barbarian invasion".

2. The ability to build a wide variety of city improvements. Again, the implementation is not worthy of the idea. While they came up with a lot of interesting improvements, the way to see and track them is with an innovative flip card that has three independent panels, tracking three different tracks improvement tracks. Unfortunately, owing to this card mechanic, the process of buying improvements is strictly orchestrated without opportunity for strategic decision making or even aesthetic choice. You just need to keep buying the next building on a linear track. So while this does add some strategic interest and complexity to the game, it suffers from what many Euros are accused of: pasting on a theme that doesn't really mechanically work in a reasonable way.

3. All of these improvements are governed by the addition of three Commodity cards - coin, paper and cloth. Each is tied to three of the original five resources, stone (coin), wood (paper) and sheep (cloth). When you have a city on one of these tiles instead of a settlement, you get one each of these along with one of the resources (as opposed to two resources) when the number is rolled. These create a little bit of confusion, as the terms "resource" and "commodity" - while clearly different in a definition sense - require some thinking to be sure what someone is talking about when actions happen. Plus, while I do think using cards similar to the resources was a smart way to handle these additional assets in the game, it also contributes to the "pasted on" feeling of the expansion.

If you're really in love with Settlers and are committed to expanding it, Cities & Knights is fine. But if you love Settlers and just want to step up to the next level of gaming, try out something entirely new:

- Puerto Rico, if you want the next level of resource management
- Friedrich, if you want to play a fun military game
- Traders of Genoa, if you want to try a more complex trading game

And again, we really enjoy Settlers, so this is certainly not a knock on the series as a whole. But there are a lot of great games out there, and it would be worth your time to try something new.
L S
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Hi this is was an interesting review for me to read, as my experience was very different.

We played basic Settlers a couple of times and found it fun but have never gone back to playing it stand alone since getting Cities and Knights. To me settlers on its own is a bit too light and limited, and C&K adds a lot more different ways to win and thus interesting choices, while retaining the fun gameplay.

I'd certainly be interested in any games that hit at a similar level to Catan + Cities and Knights, if you have any other suggestions. Of the three you mentioned I've only played PR. To me because Puerto Rico loses all the random elements and the player interaction of trading it becomes a much drier game and is much more of a 'thinking' game than Settlers (its a bit too much of a step up, in that sense).

A few other points about Cities and Knights:

building knights is not just about protecting from the barbarian, it is more about getting the victory points for defeating them, and players can try to adopt the strategy of not building knights and rely on the other players to protect them to gain an edge.

city walls protect you from the robber, and have nothing to do with the barbarian invasion (they increase your hand size).
Ken Agress
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dknemeyer wrote:
People build up enough initial knights to prevent an early attack, and the cities do not go up quickly enough to outpace further knight development.


Are you sure you're playing the knights correctly? You are limited in where you place them (along your own road segments), and you're similarly limited in how strong you can build them (no mighty knights without the blue improvement track). At some point, you should be at least sweating whether to use a knight to chase off the robber or be ready for an invasion. And you can displace an opponent's knight (and potentially destroy it if there's no place to go).

But what's usually problematic about knights isn't building them - it's feeding them. If they aren't on their active side, they don't defend, which is often what happens when the barbarians do burn a city or two down.

Quote:
In addition, the introduction of "city walls" are similarly wasted thanks to the impotence of the "barbarian invasion".


City walls don't have any impact the barbarians. They increase your possible hand size when a 7 gets rolled.

Quote:
2. The ability to build a wide variety of city improvements. Again, the implementation is not worthy of the idea... edited for brevity...So while this does add some strategic interest and complexity to the game, it suffers from what many Euros are accused of: pasting on a theme that doesn't really mechanically work in a reasonable way.


You're missing a key piece of why you build improvements. In addition to the "bonuses" they give on their own, they also provide access to the progress cards that replace the development cards in the standard game. Those provide benefits that range from "eh" to "killer."

Further, they offer you two other important things - if you're the first to the level 4 building, you place a metropolis. That's worth both two VP and prevents that city from being destroyed by the barbarians should an invasion ever succeed.

Quote:
And again, we really enjoy Settlers, so this is certainly not a knock on the series as a whole. But there are a lot of great games out there, and it would be worth your time to try something new.


I'll certainly agree with this sentiment, but something about your review just makes it seem like you weren't getting something right.

Personally, I won't play Settlers without this expansion. It adds enormously to the game, I think.
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perfalbion wrote:
Personally, I won't play Settlers without this expansion. It adds enormously to the game, I think.


I agree 100%. Vanilla Settlers has no appeal to me anymore. I have been playing it again with some new gamers and I really can't wait for the right time to add the expansion. It is definitely a different beast, but in a good way for those of us that started gaming with Settlers and are burned out with it.
Robert Voisin
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The only way any of us play it any more is with the City and Knight Expansion. We have played this expansion SO MUCH we're on our second copy of the game. The first is in shambles. Could never go back to the Original. Tried Seafarers, but Cities & knights is the clear winner and the only way for us. Got many people interested in gameing with this game and expansion alone.
Simon Taylor
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I had played the original game dozens of times (both face-to-face and online) and loved it.

I tried the Cities and Knights expansion because online, a lot more people played it with the expansion than without it. And now I've played it just as much as the original. At first, it seemed that there were so many extra features, that they'd spoiled a neat and simple game by making it confusing. And to a certain extent, I still hold that view.

I now like to play both. The original one is more simple, and in a way more satisfying/calm to play as a result. It's also a lot easier/quicker to teach and play with people who are not gamegeeks. I could imagine playing the basic game with a bunch of random friends, but I'd only really play the C&K expansion with my more gamegeeky friends.

The C&K version does have some good additions, which make it an excellent addition if you play a lot, since the basic game gets a bit stale in comparison (eventually!). The reason I like the expansion is:

1) It varies the strategy significantly from the basic game. Different resources take on new importance, and this alters the best places to deploy at the start.

2) There's a failure in your logic in your review. You say that because the barbarians never succeed, the knights aren't worth getting. But then if no-one got them, the barbarians would succeed after all. When I play this against the computerbots online, they just keep buying knights all the time whenever possible. This is good if you can get the most and get a Defender card, or development card. But if you can't get the most, it's tempting not to get any, not waste your cards dealing with knights, and upgrade other things more quickly. This can come off very nicely, or it can backfire if other players don't quite have enough knights, or build an extra city just before the invasion, and cost you a city. Deciding, on each loop of the barbarians, whether to build and activate knights is an interesting decision. Sometimes it's just easier to build a city that you know will get destroyed, than waste more cards trading for resources to build a knight to protect the ones you already have.

3) The variety of development cards, that you get from upgrading your commodity types, is quite large, and means you have a variety of different cards to play with, which keeps the game fresh for many plays. The only one I really don't like is the Intrigue card, which seems to be useless almost every time, and is a bit of a booby prize.

4) There are a few good ways to pin back the player who is doing the best - as well as the robber, you have Wedding, Master Merchant, Spy, Sabotage, and a couple of others. I find this helps keep the games close and stops one person from running away with the game if they happen to get some lucky dice rolls. But they're not so crippling that it becomes a popularity contest to see who wins.

5) There are a few more ways to win. In the basic game, you can get settlements, cities, longest road and biggest army. In the C&K expansion, you can get settlements, cities, defender cards (from knights), victory point cards , longest road, metropolis and merchant. This gives a wider range of winning methods, since you can win with various combinations. I have before now won by getting few cities in good places, and getting a couple of metropoles, but I've also won with no commodities at all, by getting tons of settlements, cities, knights and longest road. I think that's more variation than in the basic game.


I'd still happily play both. I don't mind which I play, but if I play one version lots, then I want to play the other one later. On balance, I think I'd choose to play roughly two-thirds with C&K, and one third without.
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