First of all, this is NOT a game anyone should have to try to learn on their own, a TERRIBLE way to learn this game. The system is FAR too detailed and cumbersome and very hard to grasp learning out of the terribly organized rulebook. I know all this because I did the same thing as you (read the rules twice before playing and totally muddled through 1st game).

I actually got to play 2 or so hours of this at Essen with someone showing me and that NEVER helped! (mind you it was quite awhile before I picked it back up again)

Anyway what I am trying to say is, yes, it is certainly not your fault.

http://files.boardgamegeek.com/geekfile_view.php?fileid=2189... <= This player aid is completely essential, DO NOT TRY TO PLAY WITHOUT OUT!!! It is the bible for this game, print 2 copies, one for each player and circle everything on each copy that pertains to that player.

Really that is the absolute best thing you can do besides having someone teach you. Our first game took a ridicolous amount of time like 8 hours, 2nd game maybe 4 or 5, 3rd was 3 or probably 4. Anyway we didn't wait too long before playing game 2 and it was MUCH easier, especially with the turn summary and FAQ.

Good luck, the game is worth it for the realism and theme. The game will start flowing much better once you get the hang of the turn order summary sheet.

Jay

Hmm... That is actually one of the player aids I had. In fact, I believe I had found an error on it and reported it to Dallas.

Unfortunately, I am usually the game "expert" around here so I have had to teach myself just about every game I own. If I can break away and spare a weekend, my old college roommate offered to teach me the game but I lucky to see him once every 4 years at our current rate of visitations!

Is your recommendation to skip the basic game and keep plowing through the standard game?

Brian,

The basic game is broken. Steer clear of it and persevere with the main game. I have been playing this since it was launched and I still find myself making a few serious errors of ommission. Having said that, I still thoroughly enjoy every game.

Regards,

Jim
Est. 1949

I can't see War of the Ring as substantially more complicated than Axis or Arkham, but based on your favorite games (nines and tens), WotR is at the top end of complexity for what you seem to enjoy. Now that doesn't mean that you're not brilliant, or that the rules aren't written strangely, but don't sweat it if you don't pick everything up right away. You're probably working at your game-learning limit. As you learn harder and harder games on your own and come back to WotR, I think you'll find that the rules are a piece of cake even if you do forget a couple of details the first couple of times. I've learned ASLSK1 and Paths of Glory recently. Now, when I look at Tigris and Euphrates, I can't believe that I had some trouble understanding how conflicts resolve.

I missed the six card hand limit for our first couple of games, and I missed the five army holding capability of a stronghold for our first fifteen games. I was also adding special hunt tiles directly to the draw cup before the Fellowship made it to Mordor (silly, because Shelob wouldn't be hanging out in the middle of the map, etc.). Those are big mistakes. Especially that stronghold error. But it doesn't mean that we didn't have a blast. It's really important to just play and create quick rulings as you go. That said, I never introduce a game to someone if I haven't played at least one solo session of it. Maybe you should play an entire solo session before doing it up for real again. Work out most of the kinks ahead of time.

Keep at it. As you suspect WotR is a top-notch game. It's my second favorite, I think. I'd play with you, but you're a world away. Good luck.

Wow. Yeah. No matter which way I look at that one, I take it as in insult.

My ratings are based on the BGG standards of how often I am likely to play those games. So my ratings are heavily based on the free time I have to allocate to gaming, or how willing I am to carve time out to play them if they are long. So while Carcassonne is infinitely easier than WotR, it doesn't mean I am an idiot. So I fail to see how that is relevant.

Anyway, I expect to miss things during a game. Especially the first few. My point is that I can miss aspects of other games and still have a good time. And when I miss stuff, I feel I missed stuff even though I don't know exactly what it was. I had Arkham Horror maybe 85% figured out my first play. Probably 95% after the second play. But both of those games, I had a feeling where the missing percentages were, looked them up, and mostly had them down pat the next game.

I don't get that same feeling with WotR. But at least I can sleep knowing I didn't miss the same things you missed in your first plays. Perhaps my game-learning limit is a bit higher than you suspect.

Hmmmm. I know you were trying to accomplish getting the game played, but I wonder if this style of play didn't "hurt" things. Spreading the game out might suck the feeling of tension that builds as the ring moves closer and the bad guys start knocking things off in the race to get to the win.



I'll have to admit to being confused by this statement. There's a whole lot of different actions that are available, but "upkeep" isn't a word that I would apply to the game - you aren't constantly checking characters for promotions or death or state, you aren't worried about supply for armies. Perhaps you could elaborate a little more?



This I could see being a bit confusing since each type of die leads to a different set of opportunities for action. However, I found the aid supplied with the game quite good for what the dice can do.



Can you get more specific over what? I looked at the player aid you pointed to, and frankly found it to be "too much." It's almost more of a rules synopsis, which isn't so much an aid to me as it is trying to cram much information in a smaller form factor, and that's not always good.



First, I'd strongly recommend budgeting enough time to play the game in one sitting. The tension of the game strikes me as being lost if you're coming and going, and that's a large part of the attraction of the game to me.

Second - stop sweating doing little things wrong as long as you do them consistently. Nobody plays a game perfectly the first time when they don't have someone who really knows it guiding them along. So just play and when you find a rule or something you think you're doing wrong, jot it down on a notepad, finish the game, and then come ask the question here.

Third - I'm not wild about the player aid that is referenced here. The actions you can take with the dice are pretty well described in the card that came with the game. If I've time, I'll try to "bake" one that breaks down what happens when you do things more specifically (for example "Field Combat" vs. "Siege Combat" would be good headings).

Fourth - remember that the cards "break the rules" and are intended to do so. If the card text says that something impossible happens, then it happens even if you couldn't use a die to do it for some reason. But it's worth having the FAQ available since it breaks down the cards pretty specifically where issues arose.

The biggest challenge you're likely to have with this game is getting the cards right - some of their uses and interactions get "messy."

Fifth - Remember, it's a game. If it feels like work, find your FLGS when they're having a game day and see if someone will step you through it. You probably aren't getting many things wrong if you're an experienced gamer, you're probably just obsessing on getting everything right. That's admirable, but hard to do when you're teaching yourself a game.

It's a great game with lots of tension, but that shouldn't come from the rules.

Make sure you study and have a copy on hand of all the errata. It is a necessary part of the rules. Unfortunately there are several versions floating around.

Unfortunately, I am a bit foggy on all the details. It has been a year since I touched the game except when reoganizing my game storage. Perhaps "upkeep" is the wrong term as I don't remember specific things. It was probably just general steps in the game I forgot, or certain restrictions I overlooked,or what units could do. I am thinking once I re-read the rules this weekend my memory might be jogged a bit.

As far as the player aid mentioned, I had it but it wasn't the primary one I used. I referenced that more for when I did have a rule question to see if I could quickly find it on there before having to dig through the rulebook. Despite 15 pages of files, I found the 2 aids I found the most helpful. We printed these off, had them laminated and nearby. The first one we used quite a bit to step through the phases;, the second one was used when we needed guidance on specific steps (and probably not used enough):

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/info/22335
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/info/22336

I also had the FAQ. Dated July of 2006. I'll have to verify that is the latest.

I'll try to incroporate your suggestions. Time is still the biggest hurdle. Just about any game that take more than an hour or two has to be played in multiple sessions. I understand where you are coming from with the tension dissapting over a couple of night. Fromn the first night to the second, I think it helped us because we walked away when we were getting frustrated. The second to the third night was because we had enough but didn't want to outright quit.

As I mentioned, I don't expect to get a game the first time through. I dont' remeber the specifics but I thought there were things we skipped accidently that truncated elements of the strategy. I remember an issue with eh Nazgul movement but don't recall the details. Part of me doesn't want to recall the details so that I am not prejudiced against it.

Oh well, I will just go through it again and see what we can make of it. I sat down to start the rule reading again and the first sentance says go to the basic rules. So I thought maybe that was my problem and started to read those. But that bored me so I thought I best ask and see if step 1 should be to play or ditch the basic game. Sounds like I should just stick with the Standard and keep a fresh perspective on it.

The latest version of the FAQ is always at my site. Take a look at

www.warofthering.webb.se

Click on the FAQ link in the menu to the left.

If you wonder about the FAQ, yes it is official and all the answers are made by designers of the game (Roberto DiMeglio or Francesco Nepitello).

I am the one who has been tasked to rewrite the rules for the upcomming Collector's Edition of the game.

There are several other useful things at my site, such as an example of play of the first two turns in a game.

Happy gaming!

The best way to start war of the ring is play an opponent who loves strategy games and has read the rules twice all the way through. They are the clearest 1st version set of rules of any strategy game, much better than Axis and Allies. 2nd, 1st game should be considered a trial game, thus no frustration, call it a "fun game", that may or may not finish. Keep the game order sheet in front of you. I have played the game and its variants over 50 times since, and its so intense, my opponent often forget to eat or drink for hours. No kidding. I have about 10 different opponents. Two knowledgable people will keep each other in check and make the game flow great.

Lastly, like friends, pick your opponents wisely. If they like Axis & Allies and LOTR Risk, then they will love this game. If they suggest "lets play monopoly!", then dont ever mention it again with them. Life is too short to play with unworthy opponents.

Also, the short game sucks. It will only confuse you when you play the real rules. Learn and teach the main game from the beggining.

The above shows the core to your whole problem, especially the things I put in bold. The one big thing that was missing from this game was a TURN ORDER SUMMARY. Turns are very detailed and without a summary you will not be able to maintain any kind of flow to the game. Not only that but, as you found out, you will miss things during the turns because you are trying to go back and forth to the rulebook which is poorly organized and hard to find things in the place you think they should be.

That is why the summary I pointed to in my first post is essential, it is a DETAILED turn order summary and you_can_play_the_game just by following it, not referring to it, a much better way to play. The one you tried to use is more for a veteran player as all the things you still need to know are missing as a beginning player. Again print one for both players, circle the things that each player can do on their own sheet. Now you can play right from this summary and only refer to the rules or FAQ when you have questions.

Honestly I don't think I could have made it without the guide and I will certainly never play without it again, most of everything you need to know is there and EASY to follow after a few turns, that is the key thing right there.

Have fun.

Jay

p.s. - I usually have to play in 2 or maybe 3 sessions, don't sweat it. Also yes forget the basic game at this point.

I've taught WotR to about 20 people.

The whole action die thing seems hard for people to get. I know, because I became once again baffled when playing the operational-games in the expansion. ("wth, this muster die is USELESS!").

In the learning game it might help to brainstorm, cooperatively with the opponent, three different uses for each die before it's spent.

For example:

Bob: All I've got left is this Army/Muster.
Abe: You could muster Gondor to war minus 1, that way when I attack Ithillien, they'd be at war.
Bob: Or I could get an elite in Bree, since the North is already at war.
Abe: Or you could move the Minas Tirith army out to Ithilien to butress the defenses. That'd still give you another army move with the back half of the die ...
Bob: yeah like move the Iron Hills dwarf into Erebor. I like that better than mustering Gondor towards war, since I don't have any more musters this turn, you might take Minas Tirith before I can get additional troops there.
Abe: Yeah, and it's not like I'm actually threatening Bree either ... though maybe you're planning to make a swipe for Moria...hmm...
Bob: Okay, I'll move Minas Tirith to reinforce Ithilien, and Iron Hills will slink into Erebor!

I find that new players tend to get tunnel vision on how to use each of their die results, and only use that one way. That can lead to a game that's horribly broken. You just have to learn to "see" all the possible uses for each action die. The game's going to be hellish until you do.

I was able to read the rules and found them to be ok. Not great, but not horrible. The first game we got several rules wrong, and it took us awhile to finish. In fact, I don't think we actually finished the 1st game. But we had a blast.

Since then, I've taught several people how to play.

The first game for 2 new players is tough to get through. If possible, I'd suggest playing w/someone that already knows how to play. Once you play a game w/him, then you can teach others.

It is definitely not the kind of game where you can sit down and read the rules while you're starting to play. I'm not sure whether you approached it like that, but if you did...I can understand it being difficult to play.

Last, you mentioned upkeep. There is no upkeep phase in WotR. Different game maybe?

I have found that playing a few games solo is pretty fun and pretty useful for the learning process.

I also recommend trying some 'extreme' strategies for your early games - like (FP) moving the FSP every time you can, regardless of the number of dice in the box etc or (SP) completely ignoring the Fellowship and going completely for a military victory. If you simplify the strategic aspects then you can focus more on the rules, plus you learn about the strengths and weaknessess of the main strategies.