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Joe Grundy
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Return of the Heroes » Forums » Reviews
10 Word Review and Rules Complexity Score
Following are the ten topics most characteristically mentioned about this game in 600 user ratings comments on BGG. Hopefully after 60 seconds you'll know if you want to chase more detail.

"RETURN OF THE HEROES" IN TEN WORDS:
(Starting with most mentions above average...)
1. Quests
2. Runebound Second Edition, Talisman, Magic Realm (compared games)
3. Rulebook
4. Fantasy/Adventure Game
5. Characters
6. Experience
7. "Items" (game terminology)
8. "Nameless" (game terminology)
9. "Tasks" (game terminology)
10. "Bag"


RUNNER-UP TOPIC WORDS:
"Heroes", "English Version", "Shadow" (game term), "Lack", "Components", "Encounters", "Glossary", "Replayability", "Modular Board"


CONTEXT:

1. QUESTS
"focus more on quests rather than combat"
"system is solid"
"limited number"
"typically provide only a coordinate to reach and a reward for doing so"
"route planning"


2. RUNEBOUND / TALISMAN / MAGIC REALM
"Lighter/less complicated than runebound"
"like Talisman with all the good stuff removed"
"like Talisman but much improved."
"A simpler version of MAGIC REALM, or an advanced TALISMAN"
"Resembles Magic Realm, but much more approachable."
"quicker than ..."
"better than ..."
"not as good as ..."


3. RULEBOOK
"counterintuitive"
"impossible to look things up"
"conversational-style"
"It takes a while to glean all the tweaks ... but it doesn't matter"
"The rules are much simpler than the awful rulebook may suggest."


4. FANTASY / ADVENTURE GAME
"huge fan of games with an "adventure" feel, and RotH seems to have this."
"fun adventure game with a variable board and non-linear events."
"for people that prefer eurogames"
"one of the best"


5. CHARACTERS
"unbalanced"
"male and female versions of each"
"five different classes"
"build up"


6. EXPERIENCE
"gain experience through killing monsters, but that is not as common as just ferrying chits around"
"a fun experience"


7. "ITEMS"
"collect"
"magic"
"add variety and specialization"


8. "NAMELESS"
NB: The "Nameless" are the six ultimate bad guys. One is chosen at random for each game.
"By the time the Nameless shows up, it is usually defeated fairly easily."
"had errors on them"


9. "TASKS"
"similar"
"always have several to juggle"
"enjoy the system"


10. BAG
"wait for the tile *you* need to come out of the bag"
"a great random mechanic"


RULES COMPLEXITY SCORE:
7 to start a first game .. 61 to be ready to fully plan ahead
(Note: Roughly speaking this is a concept count, not strategic complexity)
(Note: After nine games of Return of the Heroes my wife still asks rules questions... and she's won eight games. With most rules being specifically circumstantial, individual rules have small planning impact.)

Compare:
Ra: 10 .. 14
Chess: 9 .. 12
Settlers of Catan: 12 .. 19
Puerto Rico: 20 .. 31
Ticket to Ride: 11 .. 11
Bohnanza: 9 .. 10
Carcassonne (H&G): 8 .. 11

The Rules Complexity numbers are simply a count of the number of distinct rule concepts you need to learn to participate in the game... the minimum set to get started and the full set to understand where you might be headed. This article includes a detailed discussion.

I hope you enjoy more "10 Word" reviews
tim
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Is this really a review? It doesn't look like a review to me.
David Neumann
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jgrundy wrote:


I hope you enjoy more "10 Word" reviews


I didn't.

I don't understand it at all.:cry:

Dave
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Is this what's called a "tag cloud?" I think it's some faddish data mining thing.
Joe Grundy
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Not every presentation of structured qualitative info about a game floats everyone's boat. Some people find these informative (as I do myself) and some don't. That's ok.

This is simply the words most frequently used in user ratings comments. If you posted a thread saying "what do people think of this game" or if you read all the user comments, these would be the things you'd most commonly take away. The headline list of ten words tells you the most significant features. The context tells you more.

So for those having trouble interpreting this in it's brief form above...

1) Return of the Heroes revolves around Quests. (The readers didn't necessarily know that until they started reading about the game, eg by reading the game description and/or reviews.) Context: They are limited in number/variety, typically involve going to a particular location, and hence involve route planning.

2) RotH is often compared to three other fantasy themed adventure games. Context: Most often described as "between" Talisman and Magic Realm with Runebound getting mentions. Opinion is divided whether it's better or worse than any of the above, but usually described as quicker.

3) The rulebook is commentable. Context: It's bad. It's written in a conversational style, you can't look things up, and it makes the rules seem more complex than they are. But at least some people feel those things don't really matter for this game.

4) RotH is a fantasy/adventure game. Context: But might be thought of as an adventure game "for eurogamers". It has a variable board setup.

5) RotH has Characters (as per expectation for a fantasy/adventure game). Context: There are M/F versions of each, they are "unbalanced". You develop / build up your character during the game.

6) Experience (for characters) Context: is gained through "ferrying chits around" more than through fighting monsters.

7) As "Items" is a game term, you would need the context other than confirming that they exist. You collect "items" in the game. Some are "magic". They encourage the characters to specialise / differentiate.

8) As "Nameless" is a game term, you would need the context. There are errors on the Nameless cards. And they may be easy to beat.

9) As "Tasks" is a game term, you would need the context other than confirming "Tasks" exist in the game. The "Tasks" are similar to each other, you do several at once and they compete for your attention, and the Tasks system is good.

10) There is a Bag in the game. Presumably a random-draw bag. Context: ... yes it's a random draw bag. Things you want may be stuck in the bag.


This Ten Word Review is less immediately qualitative than most. People discussing this game in their ratings comments commonly discuss specific features of the game but don't agree on any particular qualitative description. For many other games, the comments most frequently highlight that a game feels particularly long, or abstract, or fiddly, or chaotic, or brain burning, or fun, or a gateway game, or whatever, and many people will say overall it's a great/average/poor game. And all that information solidly comes though in the ten word list.

This one was the first time I considered explicitly skipping the game-specific terminology in order to dig far enough to get more generally descriptive words. Perhaps I should have.
Last edited on 2008-03-22 02:05:42 CST (Total Number of Edits: 3)
J S
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Eh, it worked for me, but I'm an engineer.
tim
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To me this shouldn't be posted as a review, it should have been submitted as an article. This really tells me nothing about what the reviewer thinks of the game. Anyone could do this for any game without ever having played or even seen the game being reviewed.

The variety of the anwers for most of the questions doesn't tell me anything and for several of them the answers contradict each other.

1. "system is solid" or "typically provide only a coordinate to reach and a reward for doing so"

2. "like Talisman with all the good stuff removed" or "like Talisman but much improved."

3. "counterintuitive" or "conversational-style"

ect...
Andy Mac
Australia

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Except that the 'article' is a quantitative analysis of qualitative data.

True, it's not the author's personal opinion, but it is a compilation of popular opinion.

It doesn't fit the standard generic structure, but (in my personal opinion) it certainly felt like a 'review'.

My boat was floated. I thought it was a neat approach.
Jon Quinn
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elucid8 wrote:
Except that the 'article' is a quantitative analysis of qualitative data.

True, it's not the author's personal opinion, but it is a compilation of popular opinion.

It doesn't fit the standard generic structure, but (in my personal opinion) it certainly felt like a 'review'.

My boat was floated. I thought it was a neat approach.


I did too (think it was a "neat approach"). It gave a lot of information compiled from many other reviews and comments. Now, it may be that I am so familiar with the game already that with each one word description I would understand it completely and think, "That's right!" Perhaps it is not as helpful to those unfamiliar with the game and with the opinions previously given about it. But, for me, I gave it a thumbs up as soon as I read it.
Last edited on 2008-03-24 10:21:21 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Andy Mac
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jwquinn wrote:
Perhaps it is not as helpful to those unfamiliar with the game and with the opinions previously given about it.


Good point. I hadn't thought about that.
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