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Nick Badoux
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Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition » Forums » Reviews
Will my friends want to play TI3?
Introduction

I play games with a lot of different groups of people. In almost all groups, I'm the one responsible for supplying and explaining the games. Because of this I have to think carefully which games I bring to which groups. These considerations for, in this case, Twilight Imperium 3rd Ed. will be the heart of this review. Hopefully this will give you some insight in whether this game is suitable for your specific group.

Information

The third incarnation of Twilight Imperium (TI3) is an epic space conquest game for 2-6 players. The game borrows elements from other well known games and blends it into a masterpiece (YMMV) that's a lot bigger than the mere sum of its parts. It has "role"-selection similar to Puerto Rico, stereo-typical dice-based combat similiar to Risk-like games, and a lot more. Players take turns conquering, researching, negotiating, in an effort to score points from objectives.

The rules, weighing in at over 40 pages, are hands down the best rules I have ever read. They are very clear, unambiguous, and thoroughly structured in phases. The best part is, that most rules outside the core set have been made optional. This means you can customize the difficulty of play by adding or removing rules. Should an ambiguous or unclear situation occur, then the FAQ is your surest way to enlightenment.

Play is fast with little downtime, but overall playtime can quickly get out of hand. Especially with new players "analysis paralysis" will occur, because there is so much you can do in a single action. Do I move, build, or both? The movement mechanism based on activation of a single system on the modular board allows for multiple actions to occur in a single turn, but also prohibits certain future actions (i.e. move, build) in that system as well. This especially makes the game hard to grasp for new players.

The components are brilliant. The modular board is made with large hex tiles depicting systems with planets. Players have lots of different plastic units, with the huge War Sun as the ultimate "You wanna piece o' me?!"-unit. The game is littered with all sorts of different types of cards and counters. All in all and bottom line is ... you need a bigger table.

What will "they" think of Twilight Imperium 3rd Ed.?
Note that the stars indicate preference/attitude and not quantity, i.e. 1 star for playing time for a eurogamer means a dislike for duration for this game (i.e. too long). More stars equals more positive on a given subject. Of course caveat emptor and YMMV, because this classification is highly subjective. This means that these ratings are based on my opinion and experiences and may not correspond with others. Please leave some constructive feedback and I'll adjust the ratings accordingly.

1) Euro-gamers
starstarstarhalfstarnostar overall :what:
starstarhalfstarnostarnostar learning curve
starstarnostarnostarnostar playing time
starstarstarhalfstarnostar strategy & tactics
starstarstarstarnostar luck
starstarstarstarnostar participation & downtime
starstarstarnostarnostar fun-factor
starstarstarstarhalfstar look & feel
starhalfstarnostarnostarnostar chance to hit the table

2) War-gamers
starstarstarstarnostar overall :)
starstarstarstarhalfstar learning curve
starstarstarstarhalfstar playing time
starstarstarnostarnostar strategy & tactics
starstarhalfstarnostarnostar luck
starstarstarstarhalfstar participation & downtime
starstarstarhalfstarnostar fun-factor
starstarstarstarhalfstar look & feel
starstarstarhalfstarnostar chance to hit the table

3) Ameritrashers
starstarstarstarstar overall :D
starstarstarstarstar learning curve
starstarstarstarstar playing time
starstarstarstarstar strategy & tactics
starstarstarstarhalfstar luck
starstarstarstarstar participation & downtime
starstarstarstarstar fun-factor
starstarstarstarstar look & feel
starstarstarstarhalfstar chance to hit the table

4) Non-gamers
starnostarnostarnostarnostar overall :gulp:
nostarnostarnostarnostarnostar learning curve
nostarnostarnostarnostarnostar playing time
halfstarnostarnostarnostarnostar strategy & tactics
starstarnostarnostarnostar luck
starstarhalfstarnostarnostar participation & downtime
nostarnostarnostarnostarnostar fun-factor
starhalfstarnostarnostarnostar look & feel
nostarnostarnostarnostarnostar chance to hit the table

My $0.02 on Twilight Imperium 3rd Ed.

TI3 is my all time Ameritrash favourite, although it doesn't hit the table more than once a month. The reason for this is the duration on the one hand and available players on the other. The game takes roughly about an hour per experienced player, 1.5 hours per regular players, and about 2 hours per new players. Even experienced players have to be "in the mood" for a commitment of this scope. When the players and the time is there though, the game absolutely shines. The game facilitates diplomacy between players, which effectively destroys the concept of player elimination. Alliances are forged, NAPs are broken, homeworlds invaded, armadas destroyed. Almost every single game is of such an epic scope, that it'll stay with you as a "Remember that game when I ..."-story for a long time. The player races or so well constructed that each plays and "feels" differently, and in my games we usually end up inadvertently role-playing!

Not everyone will enjoy this. The rules are clear but also large. The game is fun, but takes a huge time commitment. The optional rules lower this threshold somewhat, but nevertheless it still is a long difficult game to grasp for new players. After one game you're either hooked, or you'll never want to play again.

One other thing I'd like to mention, is that if you have the player-base and time to play this, I can wholeheartedly recommend getting the Shattered Empires expansion. It adds more races, more technology, more everything, without bogging the game down with extra rules (all are optional) or more playtime!

On last thing I'd like to note is that the nature of board setup can lead to unfair advantages. Normally this will be mitigated by other games, but in a game of this duration and scope its extra sour. We play the house rule that each player gets a stack of random systems during setup as usual, but has to pick only and pass the stack on to the player left of him/her until all systems are alloted. This allows for selection and spread systems. For those of you who think this too boring, and regular setup is too random, FFG has released some preset maps.

This game is worthy of your time, money, and effort.

Last edited on 2008-04-27 06:18:06 CST (Total Number of Edits: 3)
Mikael Ölmestig
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It's a game for 3-6 players.
Nick Badoux
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Officially yes, but there are some really good two player variants out there.

I have played lots of 2p games with my gf, and they are an excellent way to get to know the rules and nuances of the game. Granted, some elements are removed (trade, diplomacy), but it still a great experience (combat).
Nick Case
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'Let the buyer beware'? As a surveyor who uses this legal expression in building reports, I'm not sure of it's relevance here.

I have a group of friends who have games weekend every 3 months or so (busy lives and families etc). At one of these weekends I had a range of games for the weekend gauged for the numbers who would be around for the Friday night and Saturday.

We are heavily into Euros, games with dice don't get much of a look in so I was suprised when they optied for a full Saturday of TI3. As ever it took and age to explain and as is the norm with this group it was brutal, give no quarter, expect none, but everyone really enjoyed it.

Nice rating system.
Nick Badoux
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Big Bad Lex wrote:
'Let the buyer beware'? As a surveyor who uses this legal expression in building reports, I'm not sure of it's relevance here.

I have a group of friends who have games weekend every 3 months or so (busy lives and families etc). At one of these weekends I had a range of games for the weekend gauged for the numbers who would be around for the Friday night and Saturday.

We are heavily into Euros, games with dice don't get much of a look in so I was suprised when they optied for a full Saturday of TI3. As ever it took and age to explain and as is the norm with this group it was brutal, give no quarter, expect none, but everyone really enjoyed it.

Nice rating system.


Thanks! I intended these reviews for people who are considering to buy a certain game but are uncertain of whether their specific group would like it. This rating system gives a nice overview of how specific groups react to the game based on my experience as game supplier and explainer, but in the end it's still just one man's (humble) opininion.

So indeed, "let the buyer beware" that this rating reflects my humble opinion alone. Consider this, and consider this well, when shelling out $100 for TI3 + expansion. :laugh:
Philip
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I'm going to quibble a little bit with the starhalfstarnostarnostarnostar for Euro playing time.

Twilight Imperium really isn't any longer than Die Macher.

I've enjoyed Twilight Imperium both times I've played it. I'd love the chance to get it in more often, but sadly the opportunity doesn't arise very often.
Nick Badoux
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Changed to starstarnostarnostarnostar :)

The reason I set it absurdly low is that I owned the game for 1.5 years before I finally manage to convince people to play it with me. :shake:
Tom Grant
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By amazing coincidence, I just posted some suggestion for first-time players.
Jacob Russell
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The great thing about this game, for me, is that it fits well with RPG'ers as well. Our regular D&D group stopped playing about three months ago (waiting for 4.0 to come out) and now we fill out our sessions with TWI3 until D&D can resume again (sometime in June or July probably). Your right about there being some role-playing in this game. Have you considered adding RPG'ers to your rating list, this game fits really well for those groups. Nice review.

-J

Post Scriptus: I also am the supplier for our group. Most of the games we play were bought and taught by me and I know how frustrating it can be to blow 100$ on a game that it turns out no one wants to play.

Alton Todd
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Nikku wrote:

Introduction

I play games with a lot of different groups of people. In almost all groups, I'm the one responsible for supplying and explaining the games. Because of this I have to think carefully which games I bring to which groups. These considerations for, in this case, Twilight Imperium 3rd Ed. will be the heart of this review. Hopefully this will give you some insight in whether this game is suitable for your specific group.


My $0.02 on Twilight Imperium 3rd Ed.

TI3 is my all time Ameritrash favourite, although it doesn't hit the table more than once a month. The reason for this is the duration on the one hand and available players on the other. The game takes roughly about an hour per experienced player, 1.5 hours per regular players, and about 2 hours per new players. Even experienced players have to be "in the mood" for a commitment of this scope. When the players and the time is there though, the game absolutely shines. The game facilitates diplomacy between players, which effectively destroys the concept of player elimination. Alliances are forged, NAPs are broken, homeworlds invaded, armadas destroyed. Almost every single game is of such an epic scope, that it'll stay with you as a "Remember that game when I ..."-story for a long time. The player races or so well constructed that each plays and "feels" differently, and in my games we usually end up inadvertently role-playing!

Not everyone will enjoy this. The rules are clear but also large. The game is fun, but takes a huge time commitment. The optional rules lower this threshold somewhat, but nevertheless it still is a long difficult game to grasp for new players. After one game you're either hooked, or you'll never want to play again.

One other thing I'd like to mention, is that if you have the player-base and time to play this, I can wholeheartedly recommend getting the Shattered Empires expansion. It adds more races, more technology, more everything, without bogging the game down with extra rules (all are optional) or more playtime!


This game is worthy of your time, money, and effort.



I could not agree with you more... and btw nice write up. But to answer your lead in question... let me start by saying this.

After playing over three hundred games board games of every type during my gaming life and heading towards breaking the four hundred games played mark soon, I can tell you that Twilight Imperium third edition with the must have Shattered Empires expansion is by far the best overall game I have ever played. I cannot think of any game and I do mean any game I have enjoyed more. Yes it takes eight hours or more to play (seems like half of that while playing) and this maybe its only real downside (if you think gaming for eight hours with friends as a downside) however; it will be the best eight hours plus gaming experience you will ever remember and if the TI3 bug bites you… watch out.

So to answer your question "Will my friends want to play TI3?" it all depends on your old friends... and the new ones you will make.

I personally have two copies of the base game and three copies of the expansion… and can play any variant my gaming group would like to play. Most of our games are four to six player basic games with a few standard options. We play at least once a month on a Saturday at our FLGS, stopping only for lunch or dinner, as we seek to be the next Emperor in this epic game. One of the coolest thing about TI3 is we play our games at our FLGS and we seem to gleam a new player every couple of months because they see all the fun we are having during the game at the FLGS. Because of this we currently have a solid pool of a dozen plus gamers ready to play and have no problem putting together a game at least once a month and two or three a month during the summer(you got to love school teachers with three months to game). You were correct to say that Twilight Imperium Third Edition and the Shattered Empires expansion is truly one of the few games that is worth the cost, effort and time spent to play it and might I add giving back far more then what is given.

Bottom-line: “Twilight Imperium is a game for every gamer, but not ever gamer is gamed for Twilight Imperium.”

I have met dozens of new gamers since playing TI3 with them (you really get to know someone playing a game with them for eight hours plus) and with these new gaming friends I have enjoy not only TI3 but many, many other games with a group of like minded gamers... Oh! the great times we have had and it all started with TI3.

Will my friends want to play TI3? ABSOLUTELY! albeit they may be new ones...;)


Last edited on 2008-06-04 11:12:55 CST (Total Number of Edits: 2)
Nick Badoux
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JonJacob wrote:

The great thing about this game, for me, is that it fits well with RPG'ers as well. Our regular D&D group stopped playing about three months ago (waiting for 4.0 to come out) and now we fill out our sessions with TWI3 until D&D can resume again (sometime in June or July probably). Your right about there being some role-playing in this game. Have you considered adding RPG'ers to your rating list, this game fits really well for those groups. Nice review.

-J

Post Scriptus: I also am the supplier for our group. Most of the games we play were bought and taught by me and I know how frustrating it can be to blow 100$ on a game that it turns out no one wants to play.



Thanks! I didn't add RPG-ers as a seperate group (even though I consider myself to be one) for two reasons. First I think it's more of a sub-group, i.e. wargame-rpg like miniatures while euro-rpg might like classic RPGs. Secondly, BGG itself doesn't differentiate RPG as a seperate group.

I hear ya on the PS. It's hard to invest in good games even though you have a hard time getting them to the table. That's one of the reasons I set up these reviews like this.
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Jagerfox wrote:


I could not agree with you more... and btw nice write up. But to answer your lead in question... let me start by saying this.

After playing over three hundred games board games of every type during my gaming life and heading towards breaking the four hundred games played mark soon, I can tell you that Twilight Imperium third edition with the must have Shattered Empires expansion is by far the best overall game I have ever played. I cannot think of any game and I do mean any game I have enjoyed more. Yes it takes eight hours or more to play (seems like half of that while playing) and this maybe its only real downside (if you think gaming for eight hours with friends as a downside) however; it will be the best eight hours plus gaming experience you will ever remember and if the TI3 bug bites you… watch out.

So to answer your question "Will my friends want to play TI3?" it all depends on your old friends... and the new ones you will make.

I personally have two copies of the base game and three copies of the expansion… and can play any variant my gaming group would like to play. Most of our games are four to six player basic games with a few standard options. We play at least once a month on a Saturday at our FLGS, stopping only for lunch or dinner, as we seek to be the next Emperor in this epic game. One of the coolest thing about TI3 is we play our games at our FLGS and we seem to gleam a new player every couple of months because they see all the fun we are having during the game at the FLGS. Because of this we currently we have a solid pool of a dozen plus gamers ready to play and have no problem putting together a game at least once a month and two or three a month during the summer(you got to love school teachers with three months to game). You were correct to say that Twilight Imperium Third Edition and the Shattered Empires expansion is truly one of the few games that is worth the cost, effort and time spent to play it and might I add giving back far more then what is given.

Bottom-line: “Twilight Imperium is a game for every gamer, but not ever gamer is gamed for Twilight Imperium.”

I have met dozens of new gamers since playing TI3 with them (you really get to know someone playing a game with them for eight hours plus) and with these new gaming friends I have enjoy not only TI3 but many, many other games with a group of like minded gamers... Oh! the great times we have had and it all started with TI3.

Will my friends want to play TI3? ABSOLUTELY! albeit they may be new ones...;)




Thanks!

Wow, I wish I had the time to play as often with so many different people. The funny thing is, as you said, once people see how fun the game can be, they'll immediately want to commit themselves as well.

In the end, the game isn't as big as it's often said to be. Only the playing time is a real turn-off for some.
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Jagerfox wrote:

...
I personally have two copies of the base game and three copies of the expansion.
...


... and for this I can only bow down in awe! :D
Hector Flores
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Jagerfox wrote:
I personally have two copies of the base game and three copies of the expansion… and can play any variant my gaming group would like to play.

What are these variants you use the extra copies for? Are they really worth the cost?

I do wish we could just buy ships and tiles. The rest seems difficult to put duplicates to good use...
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Nikku wrote:

"Remember that game when I ..."


Great review. The game certainly has the epic feel that you end up talking about for a while afterwards.:p
Ernesto Cabrera
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WOW... so few reviews and you already must be one of my geekbuddies!

Your Reviews are amazing...
Nick Badoux
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lestat2099 wrote:
WOW... so few reviews and you already must be one of my geekbuddies!

Your Reviews are amazing...


Thanks! :blush:
Alton Todd
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xethair wrote:
Jagerfox wrote:
I personally have two copies of the base game and three copies of the expansion… and can play any variant my gaming group would like to play.

What are these variants you use the extra copies for? Are they really worth the cost?

I do wish we could just buy ships and tiles. The rest seems difficult to put duplicates to good use...


Making four and five rings as well as having extra hex tiles to print and stick new systems onto was my first reason… then the fun started. Having extra counters i.e. trade goods, 3 fighters, 3 ground forces to use on the neutral systems, double trade contracts, just plain double everything and extra items to replace any damage or missing ones. Being able to have one to play F2F and one for PBEM. Playing a variant called Mirror-Mirror, a two games set up and so many other variants and tweaks I do not have the space to detail (If you are ever in NC come and play with us, we can go vanilla or add lots of toppings). With all the double items you so many possibilities to be very creative.

Here is how I look at it… I got my games at my FLGS with a 20% discount. So I have about $260 invested in a game that I have played well over forty times at about eight hour plus per game, which is at a cost per hour of play so far of seventy-five cents. Seventy-five cents a hour for pure fun with some great gamer friends… what else can you do that today to have so much good old-fashion clean All American fun that keeps you sharp in the mind and bonded to friends… and the best part is that the cost per hour keeps going down, every time you do it.

You ask was it worth it… “ Hell yes it was worth it!” BTW I’m playing a six-player game this weekend… so once again my playing time continues to increase as my cost goes down per hour of play… Man is Twilight Imperium GREAT! Or what!
I am Jajax!!!


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Nikku wrote:

Euro-gamers
starstarstarhalfstarnostar overall :what:
starstarhalfstarnostarnostar learning curve
starstarnostarnostarnostar playing time
starstarstarhalfstarnostar strategy & tactics
starstarstarstarnostar luck
starstarstarstarnostar participation & downtime
starstarstarnostarnostar fun-factor
starstarstarstarhalfstar look & feel
starhalfstarnostarnostarnostar chance to hit the table

2) War-gamers
starstarstarstarnostar overall :)
starstarstarstarhalfstar learning curve
starstarstarstarhalfstar playing time
starstarstarnostarnostar strategy & tactics
starstarhalfstarnostarnostar luck
starstarstarstarhalfstar participation & downtime
starstarstarhalfstarnostar fun-factor
starstarstarstarhalfstar look & feel
starstarstarhalfstarnostar chance to hit the table

3) Ameritrashers
starstarstarstarstar overall :D
starstarstarstarstar learning curve
starstarstarstarstar playing time
starstarstarstarstar strategy & tactics
starstarstarstarhalfstar luck
starstarstarstarstar participation & downtime
starstarstarstarstar fun-factor
starstarstarstarstar look & feel
starstarstarstarhalfstar chance to hit the table

4) Non-gamers
starnostarnostarnostarnostar overall :gulp:
nostarnostarnostarnostarnostar learning curve
nostarnostarnostarnostarnostar playing time
halfstarnostarnostarnostarnostar strategy & tactics
starstarnostarnostarnostar luck
starstarhalfstarnostarnostar participation & downtime
nostarnostarnostarnostarnostar fun-factor
starhalfstarnostarnostarnostar look & feel
nostarnostarnostarnostarnostar chance to hit the table


I have a friend at a moderate game level. He enjoys Pompeii, Pirate's Cove and Guillitine. He somewhat dislikes Chess. What do you think he will think of TI3?


Last edited on 2008-05-07 14:54:14 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
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