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Nick Badoux
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The Princes of Florence » Forums » Reviews
Will my friends want to play PoF?
Introduction

I play games with a lot of different groups of people. In almost all groups, I'm the one responsible for supplying and explaining the games. Because of this I have to think carefully which games I bring to which groups. These considerations for, in this case, Princes of Florence will be the heart of this review. Hopefully this will give you some insight in whether Princes of Florence is suitable for your specific group.

Information


Images courtesy of their respective BGG owners.

Princes of Florence (PoF), is an insanely popular eurogame voor 3-5 players (latest edition sports two-player as well). Set in medieval/renaissance times, it involves bidding for resources which players can use to complete so-called "works" which will yield points and money. The works require certain amenities, like buildings, jesters, forests, as well as Freedoms (i.e. Freedom of Speech).

The rules are straightforward, with most of them prominently displayed on the central board. Unfortunately using the rules to play an effective game, or even to win, is quite hard in the beginning. New players have no indication as to the worth of the items that are up for bidding, which causes them to lose out on items, or to overpay.

I've only played and seen the new QWG edition, and I must say it's absolutely breathtaking. Especially the character art and the works are very nicely done. The other boards and component are pretty decent as well, although not en par with the cards.

What will "they" think of Princes of Florence?
Note that the stars indicate preference/attitude and not quantity, i.e. 1 star for playing time for a eurogamer means a dislike for duration for this game (i.e. too long). More stars equals more positive on a given subject. Of course caveat emptor and YMMV, because this classification is highly subjective. This means that these ratings are based on my opinion and experiences and may not correspond with others. Please leave some constructive feedback and I'll adjust the ratings accordingly.

1) Euro-gamers
starstarstarstarhalfstar overall :D
starstarstarstarnostar learning curve
starstarstarstarnostar playing time
starstarstarstarhalfstar strategy & tactics
starstarstarstarhalfstar luck
starstarstarstarstar participation & downtime
starstarstarstarstar fun-factor
starstarstarstarstar look & feel
starstarstarstarhalfstar chance to hit the table

2) War-gamers
starstarhalfstarnostarnostar overall :what:
starstarstarhalfstarnostar learning curve
starstarstarstarstar playing time
starstarstarnostarnostar strategy & tactics
starstarstarstarhalfstar luck
starstarstarstarnostar participation & downtime
starstarhalfstarnostarnostar fun-factor
starstarstarstarhalfstar look & feel
starstarhalfstarnostarnostar chance to hit the table

3) Ameritrashers
starstarstarnostarnostar overall :what:
starstarstarhalfstarnostar learning curve
starstarstarstarstar playing time
starstarstarhalfstarnostar strategy & tactics
starstarstarstarnostar luck
starstarstarstarnostar participation & downtime
starstarstarnostarnostar fun-factor
starstarstarnostarnostar look & feel
starstarstarnostarnostar chance to hit the table

4) Non-gamers
starstarhalfstarnostarnostar overall :what:
starstarhalfstarnostarnostar learning curve
starstarstarnostarnostar playing time
starstarstarnostarnostar strategy & tactics
starstarstarstarstar luck
starstarstarstarhalfstar participation & downtime
starstarstarhalfstarnostar fun-factor
starstarstarstarstar look & feel
starstarstarnostarnostar chance to hit the table

My $0.02 on Princes of Florence

PoF is an evening-filling entertaining game, but it's not particularly easy on new-comers. The rules are not too much, but valueing biditems, en choosing the right two actions per turn, will take a few games. After the few games though, the game will feel rock-solid and is bound the hit the table more often in the future. There's much too like, even though it takes some effort to get the most out of the game.

As always, there are things not to love about the game. Its not a game I'd choose to teach to non-gamers, even though I know that they will love the game after a few plays. Why is this? It probably comes down to how often you can game with a particular non-gaming-group of people. If this is the one shot to get them into gaming, PoF is a big risk. If you're bound to game again in the future, PoF will almost certainly be a succes. Multiple games is key here, I think. For the wargamers and ameritrashers PoF is mostly a game of preference. You can like bidding games, or not.

Some might say PoF lacks player interaction, and some might even go as far calling it multiplayer-solitaire. There is no way to destroy what another player has done, true, but there are other ways to foil another player's plans through more indirect means. Outbidding at the right moment, taking the last of a certain Freedom before others, etc. I think there's a lot of meta-game-interaction going , with lots of talking, leering, and loud bidding wars.

PoF is a game most people will like after multiple plays, but it's not very forgiving for newcomers. Nevertheless, PoF is a eurogame that's a very decent addition to any game collection.

Last edited on 2008-04-27 06:21:13 CST (Total Number of Edits: 4)
General Protection Fault
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Nikku wrote:
starstarstarhalfstarnostar strategy & tactics

:what:
Nick Badoux
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generalpf wrote:
Nikku wrote:
starstarstarhalfstarnostar strategy & tactics

:what:


Nikku wrote:
Note that the stars indicate preference/attitude and not quantity ...


ninja
Sean Dooley
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Too... many... stars! :)
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Nikku wrote:
Note that the stars indicate preference/attitude and not quantity ...

So you're saying you dislike games with that much strategy and tactics?

I'm confused, what would it take for a game to get 5/5 in that mark?
Kevin Beckey
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I'd assign Princes of Florence starstarstarstarstar for strategy and tactics if playing with Eurogamers who are experienced with the game.


However, I'm not sure if Princes of Florence would appeal to a large sample of Ameritrash gamers, nor to Wargamers. My guess would be that a starhalfstarnostarnostarnostar would be the most likely rating from either group.
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beckeykevin wrote:
I'd assign Princes of Florence starstarstarstarstar for strategy and tactics if playing with Eurogamers who are experienced with the game.


However, I'm not sure if Princes of Florence would appeal to a large sample of Ameritrash gamers, nor to Wargamers. My guess would be that a starhalfstarnostarnostarnostar would be the most likely rating from either group.

I'm only referring to his strategy and tactics rating for Eurogamers.
Matthew M Monin
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generalpf wrote:
beckeykevin wrote:
I'd assign Princes of Florence starstarstarstarstar for strategy and tactics if playing with Eurogamers who are experienced with the game.


However, I'm not sure if Princes of Florence would appeal to a large sample of Ameritrash gamers, nor to Wargamers. My guess would be that a starhalfstarnostarnostarnostar would be the most likely rating from either group.

I'm only referring to his strategy and tactics rating for Eurogamers.


That is his guess at the rating eurogamers would give PoF as to how well they feel the game had an amount of strategy/tactics that pleased them.

-MMM
Last edited on 2008-04-25 20:39:48 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Branko K.
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Non-gamers giving PoF a fun factor starstarstarstarstar? Now I know you're pulling stars out of your..umm.. star-storage-thingy. :)

Non-gamers HATE this game. Period. Playing Princes of Florence with true non-gamers (e.g. folks who played Monopoly yonks ago and vaguely remember trying to learn Risk that one time in college) is akin to trying to entertain your four-year old nephew with the Director's Cut of "Remains of the Day".

Also, most of Ameritrashers I know would probably rather play a double-bill of the original version of Risk with one red die missing then even glance at the PoF. Wargamers would start placing miniatures from other games and executing Jesters in no time.

PoF is a great game, but you need to be a Eurogame fan and to have a bit of a gaming streak to like it.

Otherwise, chance to hit the table is nostarnostarnostar:gulp::gulp:
Nick Badoux
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Hi all! Thank you for your (mostly) constructive criticism and feedback. I've adjusted some ratings accordingly. Let me you if you think there still are large discrepancies ...

baba44713 wrote:
Non-gamers giving PoF a fun factor starstarstarstarstar? Now I know you're pulling stars out of your..umm.. star-storage-thingy.


However, this was completely uncalled for. :(

I try to review games in a way which I found lacking in other reviews. Unfortunately, I am but one man, with but one opinion. Furthermore, keep in mind that my friends and experiences are not your friends and experiences.

I adjust ratings based on the comments I get, because the more opinions these ratings are based on, the better they get.

That said, give me a chance, and please don't expect this to be 100% right in 1 go. I'll see if I can add some clarity to the existing disclaimer.

Regards,

Nick
Nick Badoux
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Adjusted the disclaimer as well. Again, thanks for the feedback.
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Nikku wrote:
Furthermore, keep in mind that my friends and experiences are not your friends and experiences.

We're probably running into a language issue here, then. When I see a review titled "Will my friends want to play PoF?" I'm assuming you're referring to the reader's friends, not the author's friends.

Now, someone else can debate the usefulness of rating games based on how well your particular sets of friends respond to it.

I didn't mean to get into it with you,, I just don't understand how anyone can assign a 3.5/5 strategy & tactics rating to a game that, whether you enjoy it or not, is generally acknowledged as being more strategic than anything else out there.
Jim Cote
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generalpf wrote:
I didn't mean to get into it with you,, I just don't understand how anyone can assign a 3.5/5 strategy & tactics rating to a game that, whether you enjoy it or not, is generally acknowledged as being more strategic than anything else out there.

Agreed. It is the most strategic of the top 19 rated games on BGG (I don't know anything about PoG), perhaps even the top 50.
Nick Badoux
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generalpf wrote:
We're probably running into a language issue here, then. When I see a review titled "Will my friends want to play PoF?" I'm assuming you're referring to the reader's friends, not the author's friends.

Now, someone else can debate the usefulness of rating games based on how well your particular sets of friends respond to it.


Language issues indeed ... :what:


generalpf wrote:
I didn't mean to get into it with you,, I just don't understand how anyone can assign a 3.5/5 strategy & tactics rating to a game that, whether you enjoy it or not, is generally acknowledged as being more strategic than anything else out there.


Reading the above, and re-reading my disclaimer in the review, it seems to be more like misunderstanding/misinterpretation to me ...

The premise of this review-type is obviously flawed (either by design, or by my inability to explain properly), so I'll cease trying.

Cheers,
Nick

*unsubscribes*


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baba44713 wrote:
Non-gamers HATE this game. Period. Playing Princes of Florence with true non-gamers (e.g. folks who played Monopoly yonks ago and vaguely remember trying to learn Risk that one time in college) is akin to trying to entertain your four-year old nephew with the Director's Cut of "Remains of the Day".

This has not been my experience at all. The rules are simple and the theme/goal of making cool stuff is rather intriguing to people who don't game. New gamers probably won't grasp the strategy or understand how to thread all their actions together throughout the game, but bidding and building is fun in and of itself and very accessible.
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Nikku wrote:
Reading the above, and re-reading my disclaimer in the review, it seems to be more like misunderstanding/misinterpretation to me ...

The premise of this review-type is obviously flawed (either by design, or by my inability to explain properly), so I'll cease trying.

No reason to leave. It's a good discussion. We don't all have to agree.
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I'll second that. I taught the game to a guy last night who said he'd played pretty much just Monopoly in the past. While he didn't win, he said he'd certainly be interested in playing in the future.

I think a player's experience will be subjective. There are many factors that are a part of a person's enjoyment.
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