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Kurt R
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The Two-Minute Review Series:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/31672

Wow, you’ve been playing your share of card games lately, haven’t you?
Yup, I’ve recently learned and played the following:

Citadels
Cutthroat Caverns
Gloom
Guillotine
Scripts and Scribes
San Juan

… and I have to say that San Juan is my favorite of that lot, for sure.

What? I thought you were a big Scripts and Scribes fan?
Oh, I am! I love that game, but I find SJ is a meatier game, and, like S&S, it fills a very important niche for me: games I play with nongamers (GIPWiNGs).

Why would you do that and let their filthy hands touch your games? They are not worthy! Unclean!
I know. They're not. Thank you for your concern, but hey c’mon, sometimes you have some of your non-gamer friends over and you convince them to play a game and you know it can’t be too heavy or take too long to explain (see my Glory to Rome review). I find that SJ is (at least right now) my first choice of games to pull off the shelf (though S&S is right behind) for GIPWiNGs.

GIPWiNGs? That's never gonna catch on... Anyway, so you’re saying this isn’t something that gamers would like?
Well, I found that my gamer friends said the same thing – they’d prefer to just play Puerto Rico (that was from three people). Not sure if that’s the general consensus, but it is ranked #46, so gamers must like it.

In any case, I’m saying that SJ is at the point on the X and Y intercept where you can teach it to nongamers and still get a very satisfying, meaty game experience, and that’s what makes me so excited about it. I’m starting to think about taking this with me when I go places (visit family and friends, etc.) as something that would “work” while giving me my game fix.

Oh, right the game addiction…
Exactly. You know I love to get a game in whenever I can – “A game a day keeps the Alzheimer’s away!” I love Puerto Rico – and I think a few other people around here do too – and this gives me a quasi-PR experience which would otherwise be impossible. I mean, I played this game with some people who I would never attempt to teach PR to.

For example, my brother-in-law visited last week. Not much of a gamer, but he took to SJ quickly and really liked it. I had two friends over today -- neither of whom is a boardgamer -- I asked them if they wanted to try a game and they agreed. I told them that this was based on the #1 ranked game in the world blah blah blah to punch it up.

Were they impressed?
Well, I had my "Boardgamer" t-shirt on (www.uberbadger.com) and was talking about something called boardgamegeek.com when I saw their eyes start to glaze over. That's when I shut up and started shuffling the cards.

How'd it go? How easy is it to learn?
They had no problem picking the game up even though neither had played anything like this before (i.e., role selection). One wants to borrow it for a golf vacation he’s taking. Now when he comes over, I have a game not just that I can recommend, but that he probably will ask to play.

Plus, it plays great with 2 and scales to 4. Some card games I own either require more players or just play better with more. This game scales great.

So that takes care of that category, but I’m still getting a sense that if you don’t own either game, Puerto Rico is the way to go.
Well, d’uh, PR is the #1 ranked game, I mean this isn’t a substitute for PR and you shouldn’t look at it that way, but rather as a supplement. If you like PR, here’s a less complex version that you can play with non-hobbyists or for something lighter. Furthermore, it occurred to me today that this is a great introduction to PR for nongamers. Once you learn this game, it's just a half-step to PR.

Is it PR lite? Sure, but, hey that works for me if it means I can play a game with someone instead of watch TV with them.

Components and value?
The cards are great. Nearly everyone who has played so far has commented on how well they shuffle, and for around $20US, I don’t see why you wouldn’t have this in your collection.

Bottom Line?
Buy it and see how many non-gamers you can turn on to it.

Just say no to TV and yes to San Juan.



Last edited on 2008-06-15 00:10:50 CST (Total Number of Edits: 2)
Stephen Sanders
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05060708
Good job. Yeah, my brother, who doesn't play too many board games, loves San Juan and will prefer it to any other board games that I have. I agree that it should be presented to non-gamers who would not likely accept most other games. Then, I tried Puerto Rico with him and he loved it.
Kurt R
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caltexn wrote:
Then, I tried Puerto Rico with him and he loved it.


Good to hear. I haven't tried the SJ to PR shuttle, but I hope to.
Sheamus Parkes
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0708
enzo622 wrote:
caltexn wrote:
Then, I tried Puerto Rico with him and he loved it.


Good to hear. I haven't tried the SJ to PR shuttle, but I hope to.


I'm more of the opinion that people are gamers or they aren't. There is a small subset of people who you could "ease into PR". But for most people, either you just break out PR from the beginning because you know they'll love it, or you stick to the Settlers and San Juans of the gaming variety.


As for San Juan, it's a good game, but I traded it off after my 20th game of Race for the Galaxy.
Kurt R
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Isamoor wrote:

I'm more of the opinion that people are gamers or they aren't.


I do not disagree with that.
Bruce Pierce
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Quote:
Well, d’uh, PR is the #1 ranked game, I mean this isn’t a substitute for PR and you shouldn’t look at it that way, but rather as a supplement. If you like PR, here’s a less complex version that you can play with non-hobbyists or for something lighter. Furthermore, it occurred to me today that this is a great introduction to PR for nongamers. Once you learn this game, it's just a half-step to PR.

Is it PR lite? Sure, but, hey that works for me if it means I can play a game with someone instead of watch TV with them.


Great review. I tried to teach PR to some nongamers and it turned out to be unenjoyable night. They just didn't seem to understand the turn order or why we were doing this. I think if they ever let me show them another game I stick with SJ or Ticket to Ride.
Peter Mumford
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Nice review. There are two minor points I would add.
enzo622 wrote:
Plus, it plays great with 2 and scales to 4. Some card games I own either require more players or just play better with more. This game scales great.

I don't think it scales so great. It plays very well with two, but a little on the clunky side. Because I get two turns and then you get one turn. Then you get two turns and I get one, etc. I find that clunky.

San Juan is outstanding with three.

San Juan is oddly disappointing with four. It took me a while to figure out why. It has to do with the fact that in every round four of the five roles will be chosen. With a four handed game you are almost guaranteed to have the builder, producer and trader chosen every round. This makes the game both more predictable and less interactive. San Juan is a game where interaction between players is very subtle in the first place. With four, San Juan becomes less interesting. I'm not saying its broken with four, just dull.

My second point is that you didn't mention the part of San Juan that sets it makes it different, and, I think, better than Puerto Rico: the commodity market. San Juan's commodity pricing stack is one of those genius touches that makes a game beautiful. It is so simple, and the numbers so well placed - a lot of playtesting went into that I bet.
Last edited on 2008-06-15 10:42:19 CST (Total Number of Edits: 2)
Kurt R
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photocurio wrote:
Nice review. There are two minor points I would add.
enzo622 wrote:
Plus, it plays great with 2 and scales to 4. Some card games I own either require more players or just play better with more. This game scales great.

I don't think it scales so great. It plays very well with two, but a little on the clunky side. Because I get two turns and then you get one turn. Then you get two turns and I get one, etc. I find that clunky.

San Juan is outstanding with three.

San Juan is oddly disappointing with four. It took me a while to figure out why. It has to do with the fact that in every round four of the five roles will be chosen. With a four handed game you are almost guaranteed to have the builder, producer and trader chosen every round. This makes the game both more predictable and less interactive. San Juan is a game where interaction between players is very subtle in the first place. With four, San Juan becomes less interesting. I'm not saying its broken with four, just dull.

My second point is that you didn't mention the part of San Juan that sets it makes it different, and, I think, better than Puerto Rico: the commodity market. San Juan's commodity pricing stack is one of those genius touches that makes a game beautiful. It is so simple, and the numbers so well placed - a lot of playtesting went into that I bet.


Thanks. Good points, especially about scaling to 4. I find 3 is the sweetspot.
Jonathan Morton
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0708
Quote:
I don't think it scales so great.


This makes you part of a small minority amongst San Juan fans. The current optimum number of players poll has over 90% of voters recommending San Juan at all of 2, 3, and 4 players. There are currently at least 77 voters at each level.
 
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