geek
The Hotness
Games|People|Company
Rules | Subscriptions | Bookmarks | Search | Account | Moderators
Recommend
171
26 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 
New Thread | Printer Friendly | Subscribe  sub options | Bookmark
Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Matt Drake
United States
Arlington
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron070809
mbmbmb
Dungeon Twister » Forums » Reviews
French People Are Just Plain Weird
It's funny how much you can tell about a country by its board games. Take America, for instance - our games are usually intensely violent, and they usually take place someplace really silly, like in a future overrun by monsters or a fake planet ruled by evil dragons. Or take Germany, where the games are almost completely non-violent and often rather dull. You can almost picture the German game designers wearing a lot of drab colors and complaining about their mothers. And then you've got the French.

French people are just plain weird. Their games are all over the map when it comes to violence and game play - some games are so bloody, they make Risk look like Chutes & Ladders. Some games have so much luck, you might as well roll the dice, compare results, declare a winner and play something else. Some games are so completely twisted you wonder why French children don't decorate their bedrooms with human ears.

Dungeon Twister is a weird damned game. The premise is that you're locked with a team of dungeon crawlers in a dungeon created by the Archmage. The Archmage gets a kick out of watching you try to get out. So far, this is practically a Hollywood movie. Except that your opponent's team is made up of the same exact people. And the dungeon is made up of a bunch of rooms that were designed by a hamster architect that had been injecting absinthe directly into its little brain. And the freaking rooms spin.

You can also tell that Dungeon Twister is French because there's no randomizing element anywhere. You each get a deck of cards, but you can choose when to play them. This would make it a Euro game, but since the theme of the game is to kill the bejeezus out of a bunch of other people, it has to be French. No German ever would have thought of this. Any more, German people only think of games with lots of math and no killing. German exports tend to be exciting recreations of farming or delivering mail.

Speaking of cards, Dungeon Twister has a painfully cool card mechanic. On your turn, to determine how many times you can act, you play one of four cards - 2, 3, 4 or 5. You get that many actions. If you want your troll to move three times then club a goblin in the face, you'll need four actions. If you just want your fighter to pick up a shield and walk away with it, you only need two. Once you've played one of those number cards, you can't get it back until you've played all four, so you have to really think ahead. Can you get by with just spinning a tile right now, to make sure you've got enough to make a cannonball run later? Or do you need to strike now, killing two or three foes with a collection of fireballs, blades and traps, then be hamstrung when your opponent makes his counterattack?

Combat is another exercise in card management. Every character has a fight value, and when two dungeon-crawlers fight, you compare those values, and the higher value wins. You can each add one combat card to the fight, which will get you anywhere from 1 to 6 extra points of whoop-ass. But you lose that card for the rest of the game, so you may want to gamble that your opponent is going low, or if you think you're going to lose anyway, play your +0, which comes back to your hand after you play it.

There are lots of little rules to Dungeon Twister, mainly associated with the characters and items in the game. The thief can cross a pit trap by getting all acrobatic, and the mage can fly over the top of it, but the cleric needs a rope. The thief can also unlock a gate, while the fighter can just bash it open. The wall-walker can step right through walls, which can save lots of time, but the goblin can go the long way around and still beat her, especially if he drinks a speed potion. And for your dose of French bizarre, there's an orc mechanic who can spin tiles the wrong way, because God knows you can't have a fantasy game without a demihuman with an engineering degree.

The end result of all these minute factors is that Dungeon Twister can result in very lengthy turns, where you spend like five minutes planning a turn that will take you thirty seconds to execute. Your thought patterns will sound a little like this:

"OK, I could run the goblin up to the treasure chest, block with the troll and then spin the back room. I need five actions for all that... let's see if I can do just three actions, and forget the spinning. Wait, I know, for three I could move the cleric next to the wizard, but I can't heal... Maybe I'll just move the orc to here and spin that room backwards, which will let the wallwalker get past the pit trap - but the rope is only one more action away, so maybe I'll play the four... "

Meanwhile, your opponent's thought process sounds like this:

"GO!! FRIKKIN TAKE A FRIKKIN TURN!!! FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, GO!!!"

Until it's his turn, and then he sounds like this:

"Hmmm, with my mage dead, I don't need the fireball wand, so I could play the three and get... "

If you like to plan a strategy about five turns in advance, and if you like to try to guess what your opponent will do, Dungeon Twister should be right up your alley. The art is really fun, and the theme is thicker than a French man's body odor. On the other hand, if you want your games to move really fast, or if you like a little element of chance, you probably want to skip right past Dungeon Twister and play something with dice.

I really like Dungeon Twister. Maybe it's because I like all the planning and maneuvering, and maybe it's just because I'm like one sixteenth French (which is why I get to mock the French. But then, I'm not any part German, and I mock Germans, so go figure). But I can tell you from playing some people who hated the game that it's not a universal hit, so if you're not sure if this sounds fun, just pick up the base game and try it out before you buy the expansions.

If you do like Dungeon Twister, the expansions can really broaden the game. The three/four player expansion is pretty much a reprint of the two-player game, but with rules that let you add more people. The other expansions are much more interesting, and add new characters, dungeon tiles, equipment and other wacky stuff, because you probably need more things to consider when you're trying to trim your turn down to a very reasonable hour and a half. Then you've got the expansion that's just unpainted miniatures, but I don't see any reason to buy that at all.

In the end, Dungeon Twister brings home one important point in board games: Americans are violent, Germans are boring, and French people are weird.

Summary

Pros:
Deep game play rewards careful planning
Great art
Funny (but odd) theme
No luck anywhere

Cons:
Turns can drag when players can't make up their minds
No luck anywhere
Last edited on 2008-08-21 22:18:25 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Kevin Sussman
United States
Los Angeles
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron070809
mbmbmbmbmb
Funny review! And from a Texan! :p
Kurt Runco
United States
Philadelphia
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron08
mbmbmbmbmb
Nice review. You made me want to purchase the game in spite of the turn down time -- and I already own it (and also gave it a good review!).

John W
United States
Sacramento
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
By far your best review so far.
Mark McEvoy
Canada
Ottawa-ish
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Great review. :D

Two minor notes:

VixenTorGames wrote:
If you want your troll to move three times then club a goblin in the face, you'll need four actions. If you just want your fighter to pick up a shield and walk away with it, you only need two.


Picking up an item doesn't cost an action at all. You only need one action to pick up a shield and walk away unless you plan for your fighter to walk and walk once more.

VixenTorGames wrote:
Summary
Pros:
No luck anywhere


Well, the placement and orientation of the rooms is random (and not revealed until rooms are discovered, so it's not something you can account for in setup planning). Sometimes the right room and the right facing will come up for you, sometimes it'll be just the wrong room and the wrong facing that your progress is blocked off by walls.
john-michael
United States
Jackson
Tennessee
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Nice review. Very funny! Makes me want to buy the game.thumbsupthumbsup
Stven Carlberg
United States
Atlanta
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
By the way, Risk is a French game, too.
Graham Smallwood
United States
Santa Ana
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
040506070809
mbmbmbmbmb
There is a set time limit per turn. Like Blood Bowl. You can't drop a rule like that and then complain that turns take too long.
Karim Chakroun
France

flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
patron070809
Nice review! You should check Hybrid too.
Jorge Arroyo
Spain

Madrid
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
patron0607
mbmbmbmbmb
Dorque wrote:
There is a set time limit per turn. Like Blood Bowl. You can't drop a rule like that and then complain that turns take too long.


I thought that was an optional (but very popular) rule. But yeah, it's a great way to eliminate AP...

-Jorge
Jim Patterson
United States
Iowa City
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron070809
mbmbmbmbmb
This is a game I like, but I don't think I've ever finished one in three tries. About the only one who'd play it with me works with me, and an hour, even when we're playing fairly aggressively, is just a little too short, especially when it's been a while and we have to relearn rules.
Dennis Gadgaard
Denmark
Copenhagen
flag msg tools
patron09
mbmb
If you feel your games has too much brain burning and downtime while your opponent tries to think through all possible moves 5 turns ahead...
just introduce a timer (as previously stated in the above replies the rules even suggest this).
For me, this only makes the game more fun while you're just learning it; while you still make a lot of mistakes there is really no need to plan for half an hour and still make a mistake... just make it, learn from it and try to make less in the future :)
Spyros Gkiouzepas
Greece
Thessaloniki
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb


VixenTorGames wrote:
Or take Germany, where the games are almost completely non-violent and often rather dull. You can almost picture the German game designers wearing a lot of drab colors and complaining about their mothers.


Have you seen the desinger of Power Grid? :p

Nice review!



Alec Clair
France

flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
DenGad wrote:
If you feel your games has too much brain burning and downtime while your opponent tries to think through all possible moves 5 turns ahead...
just introduce a timer (as previously stated in the above replies the rules even suggest this).
For me, this only makes the game more fun while you're just learning it; while you still make a lot of mistakes there is really no need to plan for half an hour and still make a mistake... just make it, learn from it and try to make less in the future :)



At first I only used timer when playing in tournaments.
Then we find the game was much more enjoyable with a timer that now even for friendly play we use a timer and a time limit of 2 mins/turn.

That way games take roughly an hour, wich is fine for me.

If you want to have an idea of how long you can take to find the best moves for your turns, check the puzzles (called "Remue Méninges") on the belgian DT web site:

http://www.legobelin.net/remue.php

this is a greeeaaat DT site.

For the record I can solve some problems in minutes but have spend hours on other.

As Denis Stated making mistakes and taking advantage of your opponents ones is part of the game. Just like in sport.

This is also the kind of game you enjoy more as you get more experienced. I remenber my first games really gave me headaches.

As someone mentionned there's no luck during the game, bur this is not a perfect informations game.
There's a chaos factor when you reveal the rooms, it can have a great impact on the game, specially if you made an optimisic character's setup.

tim Tim TIm TIM TIMMY!!
Costa Rica

flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Great Review as always, one of your funniest yet! I almost had this one, Darn those Crack Heads, and was really looking forward to it. I can tell from all the posts I would prefer to use a timer and just go for it. I like the idea of learning from my mistakes in a shorter game. With out a timer this may take 4 or more hours with my one brother :laugh:
Jim Nave
United States
Lake Oswego
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Quote:
Dungeon Twister is a weird damned game.


I think you mean that its a damned weird game.

FYI... this is freaking hilarious. :D

Quote:
Meanwhile, your opponent's thought process sounds like this:

"GO!! FRIKKIN TAKE A FRIKKIN TURN!!! FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, GO!!!"

Until it's his turn, and then he sounds like this:

"Hmmm, with my mage dead, I don't need the fireball wand, so I could play the three and get... "
Last edited on 2008-06-27 09:46:20 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Jonah Johnson
United States
Lake Balboa
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron05
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
"GO!! FRIKKIN TAKE A FRIKKIN TURN!!! FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, GO!!!"
and this is the reason i read a book while i play.

stay well,

jj
Nicolas Guay
Canada
Memramcook
New Brunswick
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron07
mbmbmbmbmb
You piqued my interested with your title because I'm French and I was expecting the usual "French" jokes. Instead, it was something completely different, well written and very funny

Nick
tim Tim TIm TIM TIMMY!!
Costa Rica

flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hey Nick,

We won't hold that against you :D I'm Just Kidding! Yea I love Matt's writing style, it always makes me laugh, his blog is my favorite!
Matt Drake
United States
Arlington
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron070809
mbmbmb
Nick, if you enjoyed this review for its not-too-anti-French jokes, you might really like this one:

http://drakesflames.blogspot.com/2008/05/sort-of-miniatures-...

I never copied that review here - it's a little less family-friendly than I'm comfortable posting at BGG. That's also why I didn't post my Mutant Chronicles review over here - the jokes are a little too off-color.
Ben Hodgson
United Kingdom
Tiverton
Devon
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron08
mbmbmbmbmb
For added interest in the game if turns are taking too long, just link an egg-timer up to one of your easy-to-find home boulder traps or exploding chicken traps and enjoy!

I'm sure I had some spares left over from Dungeon Keeper.
Last edited on 2008-06-29 04:29:47 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Nicolas Guay
Canada
Memramcook
New Brunswick
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron07
mbmbmbmbmb
VixenTorGames wrote:
Nick, if you enjoyed this review for its not-too-anti-French jokes, you might really like this one:

http://drakesflames.blogspot.com/2008/05/sort-of-miniatures-...

I never copied that review here - it's a little less family-friendly than I'm comfortable posting at BGG. That's also why I didn't post my Mutant Chronicles review over here - the jokes are a little too off-color.


I did really like that one indeed. I agree with your decision not to post on BGG. Thanks for the link!

Nick
"I saw the silver lining hidden in a mushroom cloud."
United States
Columbia
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
patron08
mbmbmbmbmb
VixenTorGames wrote:
Or take Germany, where the games are almost completely non-violent and often rather dull. You can almost picture the German game designers wearing a lot of drab colors and complaining about their mothers.


I find this surprising, but true, yet compared to their concerts the Germans are insane, take Rammstein for example they have a different set for each of their songs they play, are known for some of the greatest pyrotechnics in the world etc. In an recent interview, one of the members said that he attended a Pearl Jam concert and he couldnt believe that they came out and played in jeans and t-shirts the whole concert. He believed that the concert was meant to be a form of theatre as well.

I wonder why this same mentality hasnt transferred to their games? All the best, Jonathan
Fabrice Wiels
Belgium
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mb
Very nice review.

I can only agree with what was said here above about the use of a timer in your games of Dungeon Twister: it is mandatory if you want your games to have a good rythm.
Wim van Gruisen
Netherlands
Maastricht
Unspecified
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmb
VixenTorGames wrote:
It's funny how much you can tell about a country by its board games. Take America, for instance - our games are usually intensely violent, and they usually take place someplace really silly, like in a future overrun by monsters or a fake planet ruled by evil dragons.

Yeah. I just played Ticket to Ride earlier this evening. Silly, silly setting (but far too few guns).

Edit: for weird and violent French games, Cash & Guns fits well in that list.
Last edited on 2008-12-11 15:45:32 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
BoardGameGeek and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.