geek
The Hotness
Games|People|Company
Rules | Subscriptions | Bookmarks | Search | Account | Moderators
Recommend
21
31 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 
New Thread | Printer Friendly | Subscribe  sub options | Bookmark
Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Branko K.
Croatia

flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lost Cities » Forums » Reviews
Lost Cities, or as I like to call it "an overproduced set matching card game"
Yes, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna pick on one of the BGG's sacred cows, the beloved Knizia's Lost Cities. I'm gonna do it, and then I'm gonna lay under my bed for a few weeks because I know I'm gonna get so much flak I could get rich by exporting it to mr. Bush in exchange for oil. But yes, I'm gonna do it. Sure am. Here I go. (deep breath)

Lost Cities is a lame overproduced overpriced set matching card game with a pasted-on theme and fiddly scoring mechanism. It plays quick, it's light and it's pretty darn boring uneventful. If your non-gaming girlfriend loves it, it's probably because she sneakily indulges you cause she is scared that if she admits she hates it (and she does) doesn't really enjoy it you will pull out your humoungous game box of some overly complex wargame with four hundred components and rules you can only understand if you got your PhD in Law, Economics, Warfare and Advanced Mathematics combined. I know this, cause I've been there. Too long have I been living in denial, but the horrible truth is finally here, for everyone to read.

Seriously, why do I dislike Lost Cities so much?

I'll tell you. Because, in my truly honest opinion, this game is dangerously overvalued here on Boardgamegeek. BGG is usually right on the money when it comes to evaluating a game's, well, value *. However, due to some crazy voodoo magic conducted by Reiner Knizia, Lost Cities somehow found its way to top hundred of all games, and top 10 of the light two-player games selection. It got the 1999 Meeple's choice award, and the 2000 Intrernational Gamers Award. Wow. On the other hand, the "Traditional Card games" entry, which is, like, Lost Cities' closest cousin (or rather a family of hundreds and hundreds of cousins living in the same deck..err house), is rated 1857th. Hmm. I smell something fishy, and it's not the tuna sandwich.

If this is the first LC review you've come across, let me slip in the more traditional review form and describe what you get when you buy Lost Cities, the, ahem, boardgame. You get a 5-suited deck of cards and a totally superfluous board. That's it. For the compulsive-obsessive readers, you also get the rulesheet, the actual box, and I think there was a protective foil protecting some pieces but I'm not sure anymore. The deck is pretty close to a traditional deck, and could be easily simulated with one, except for the fact that it has 5 suits (clever design choice, there). Each suit has cards numbered from 2-9 and three "handshake" cards. The board, as I said, is only there so you can call this game a "boardgame" and keep a straight face. Barely. Of course, instead of boring all suits like diamonds, spades, hearts and that fourth suit I could never remember the english word for, you get the desert suit, the forest suit, the water suit, the snow suit and the err.. the Mars suit. So much better, init?

One thing I sneakily failed to mention is the gorgeous artwork you get on the cards. It is, as I said, gorgeous. Seriously, no sarcasm here, I love it. Except, of course, for the fact that it has nothing to do with the actual game, it's totally just eye candy. You can damage 95% of your deck in a nasty circular saw accident, and still play LC. Seriously. You can admire the artwork by looking at this really pretty picture I stole pulled from the gallery:



Yep, lovely pictures we have here. In fact, one can have plenty of fun admiring the artwork. In even bigger fact, the artwork is probably one of the biggest reasons the game is so popular. Why do I think that? Because, if you scour through the threads and gallery pictures, noone has made a home-made version of Lost Cities. Noone. Even though it is horribly easy to do so with two traditional card decks and some black marker, noone did it. Why? Because, let's face it noone would play it. Lose the pretty pictures, lose the appeal. Yep, it's such a great game.

I'll describe the gameplay in just a few sentences. You must make sets, like in Rummy, but you must place them on the table, one card at the time, in ascending order. You can exchange cards, like in Rummy, but you have five distinct piles instead of one (hence the board, whatever would we do without it). Like finishing with extra Jokers in Rummy, handshakes can double/triple/quadruple your scores, but they work on each pile separately and have to be played at the beginning. Unlike Rummy, the game is designed for only 2 players (yes, yes, I am aware of the variants, but because they involve buying ANOTHER LC box, thank you very much on that). Unlike Rummy, the scoring mechanics will require you have a math prodigy kid or a laptop with a handy excel sheet nearby to make the final scoring.

So you see, this game is pretty similar to Rummy in many aspects (similar in broad terms of course, don't pull my tongue and tie it around the pole for this). In fact, if one likes Rummy, one could easily enjoy LC. I like Rummy, ergo I probably enjoy LC. And now here's the Shyamalan-like twist - I DO enjoy LC (to some extent)! But don't start wiping your sweat just yet, cause I'm not finished. So, even if I enjoy LC as much as I enjoy Rummy, I don't see Rummy up there winning Gamers awards, I don't see 20 reviews praising Rummy as "the ideal girlfriend's game", and if I get bored with Rummy I can choose to play some other game with the dirt cheap card deck I bought, I am not restricted to only two choices - Rummy or "looking at pretty pictures"! And here's the kicker - Rummy isn't such a great game, really, and instead of playing Rummy I'd rather play one of hundreds and hundreds of games out there! My gf too, with the only condition being that the particular one of those hundreds and hundreds of games she's playing has "Ticket to Ride" written somewhere on the box, but that's another story.

OK now that the bucket of vile has been dropped, let me put on my handy steel-enforced bullet-proof apologetic hat. I apologize to plenty of people who enjoy LC and who will see this post as something written by the green guy whose day job is not letting people pass over the rickety bridge. If you enjoy this game, good for you. If your girlfriend (or boyfriend) enjoys playing this with you, and you are getting hours and hours of fun out of it, even better for you. But this review (or "bashing" as some of you are lovingly calling it already) is not for you. This is for people who were, like me, hypnotized with hundreds and hundreds of posts praising Lost Cities and who will, like I did, at some point in the future open up the game and realize they bought yet another plain card game in disguise. A card game which is not bad, but not really good either. A card game which cost them about twenty times more then a good old card deck they already own. A card game which, bottom line, isn't really that entertaining at all. A card game which will be played a few times, then put in the closet never to be opened again, because they will realize there are SO many better boardgames around nowadays.

A card game that is nothing more then an overproduced set matching card game with fiddly scoring mechanism.

There. I'm hearing sounds of people cocking their guns, so if you'll excuse me, I've got some ducking to do.

-googoo-
--- ---
---
-



* except for the occasional unfair shilling of the commercially succesful games, party games and children's games, but I so did not go there right now
Marc Morley
United States
Rainier
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron040708
mbmbmbmbmb
While I personally like Lost Cities I don't disagree with you on any particular point.

Or maybe I'm just trying to get you to come out from behind your cover...:devil:
Tim Koffley
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
040506070809
mbmbmbmbmb
How exactly is it overproduced? One small superfluous board equals overproduction? Otherwise it's just a deck of cards. :what:
Branko K.
Croatia

flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Overproduction:
The property of the product to contain unrequired features that the customer does not need nor value, but which often lead to higher sale price.


You're right, this SO doesn't sound like Lost Cities. :)
Steven Dennis
United States
Mandeville
Louisiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron070809
mb
baba44713 wrote:
Overproduction:
The property of the product to contain unrequired features that the customer does not need nor value, but which often lead to higher sale price.


In that case, most chess sets are overproduced.
Rob Robinson
England
Barnsley
Over The Hills & Far Away
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
baba44713 wrote:
Unlike Rummy, the scoring mechanics will require you have a math prodigy kid or a laptop with a handy excel sheet nearby to make the final scoring.


No way, you can add up the scores in your head easier than you can say Yahtzee!
Eric Brosius
United States
Needham Heights
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Avatar
040506070809
mbmbmbmbmb
I wouldn't call it a "set matching" game myself. To me, set matching sounds like rummy or canasta. Sure, you're putting cards into groups by color, but "set matching" seems like a stretch to me.
Kevin Lloyd
United Kingdom
Penmaenmawr
Conwy
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron0708
mbmbmbmbmb
Eric Brosius wrote:
I wouldn't call it a "set matching" game myself. To me, set matching sounds like rummy or canasta. Sure, you're putting cards into groups by color, but "set matching" seems like a stretch to me.


Thank you for the most entertaining rant review. I must say, I was starting to think I was the only one ;)

And another thing. How on earth did you guys let Turkey beat you?! What were you thinking??!!
Kevin Sussman
United States
Los Angeles
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron070809
mbmbmbmbmb
Lost Cities is the most requested game I own. Oddly enough, although I have several packs of playing cads, nobody ever requests straight up Rummy.

Fiddly scoring? Really? You're actually accusing Lost Cities... The card game. Of being fiddly? Wow.

Could you produce your own copy of Lost Cities? Sure, just destroy a deck of cards coming up with a fifth suit. What are you gonna use? Stickers? Magic marker? You go! Screw Rio Grande... they'd just use your money to make more of those fiddly games.

The board is not necessary, but it's nice to have. I always use it unless I'm traveling. Lost Cities is probably the last game in my collection I would think of as overproduced. I have absolutely gotten my money's worth out of it and it would never occur to me that I'd been duped by the publisher into paying for more than what I need.

Also, does this game really need more bashing? You yourself just criticized it today on someone else's very negative review from two days ago. For one of BGG's "sacred cows" as you put it, you and a lot of other folks sure do have an axe to grind.
Marc Morley
United States
Rainier
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron040708
mbmbmbmbmb
Mr_Bickman wrote:
Lost Cities is the most requested game I own. Oddly enough, although I have several packs of playing cads, nobody ever requests straight up Rummy.

Fiddly scoring? Really? You're actually accusing Lost Cities... The card game. Of being fiddly? Wow.

Could you produce your own copy of Lost Cities? Sure, just destroy a deck of cards coming up with a fifth suit. What are you gonna use? Stickers? Magic marker? You go! Screw Rio Grande... they'd just use your money to make more of those fiddly games.

The board is not necessary, but it's nice to have. I always use it unless I'm traveling. Lost Cities is probably the last game in my collection I would think of as overproduced. I have absolutely gotten my money's worth out of it and it would never occur to me that I'd been duped by the publisher into paying for more than what I need.

Also, does this game really need more bashing? You yourself just criticized it today on someone else's very negative review from two days ago. For one of BGG's "sacred cows" as you put it, you and a lot of other folks sure do have an axe to grind.


Whoa, come on people...it's only a game.:shake:
Branko K.
Croatia

flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kevwill wrote:

And another thing. How on earth did you guys let Turkey beat you?! What were you thinking??!!


Well, we wanna join the EU so it's best not to step on anyone's toes. And we already beat Germany who will today win the championship, so going further would just be rubbing it in anyways. :)
Isaiah Tanenbaum
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmb
Stratagems wrote:
While I personally like Lost Cities I don't disagree with you on any particular point.


Seconded. My fiancee and I enjoy Lost Cities (as well as Rummy) but the scoring is certainly fiddly. At least Rummy scores in easy multiples of 5. And yeah, the board is silly, pointless, and pretty, like the cards themselves. But the art is part of what makes this game so good at pulling in "non-gamers" -- I wouldn't call it overproduced so much as filled with pretty bonuses that may or may not be necessary enticements, depending on who you're playing with.

I will say, however, that what tends to be missing in all of the negative LC reviews I've read (such as there are) is recognition for the very cool control-over-game-speed feature. That is, you can draw from the deck or from the piles, and the round ends when the deck is gone. That is a very deep mechanic, in fact, and it's what keeps me coming back to LC long after I've grown bored with the art.
Richard Hutnik
United States
Poughkeepsie
New York
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
Lost Cities is Knizia attempts to do a 2 player version of Racko, and the game benefits as a result of this.
Yours truly,
United States
Gainesville
Florida
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Your review had me chuckling, nice sense of humour & writing, even if I don't agree on every point. For me, although it doesn't scratch the "boardgame" itch, it's fun when I'm in the mood for a card game, a gorgeously illustrated one to boot.

baba44713 wrote:
So, even if I enjoy LC as much as I enjoy Rummy, I don't see Rummy up there winning Gamers awards, I don't see 20 reviews praising Rummy as "the ideal girlfriend's game",


To be fair, the mystery rummy series (Mystery Rummy: Jack the Ripper, etc) does have a decent rating and reputation here, although admittedly not as high as Lost Cities.
Sean Dooley
United States
Cincinnati
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron070809
mbmbmbmbmb
baba44713 wrote:
kevwill wrote:

And another thing. How on earth did you guys let Turkey beat you?! What were you thinking??!!


Well, we wanna join the EU so it's best not to step on anyone's toes. And we already beat Germany who will today win the championship, so going further would just be rubbing it in anyways. :)


Guess Not.
Kevin Sussman
United States
Los Angeles
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron070809
mbmbmbmbmb
Stratagems wrote:
Mr_Bickman wrote:
Lost Cities is the most requested game I own. Oddly enough, although I have several packs of playing cads, nobody ever requests straight up Rummy.

Fiddly scoring? Really? You're actually accusing Lost Cities... The card game. Of being fiddly? Wow.

Could you produce your own copy of Lost Cities? Sure, just destroy a deck of cards coming up with a fifth suit. What are you gonna use? Stickers? Magic marker? You go! Screw Rio Grande... they'd just use your money to make more of those fiddly games.

The board is not necessary, but it's nice to have. I always use it unless I'm traveling. Lost Cities is probably the last game in my collection I would think of as overproduced. I have absolutely gotten my money's worth out of it and it would never occur to me that I'd been duped by the publisher into paying for more than what I need.

Also, does this game really need more bashing? You yourself just criticized it today on someone else's very negative review from two days ago. For one of BGG's "sacred cows" as you put it, you and a lot of other folks sure do have an axe to grind.


Whoa, come on people...it's only a game.:shake:


This is true. And after rereading my post, I did kinda imply there was some kind of conspiracy against Lost Cities. A card game. Consider me feeling silly.
Kevin Lloyd
United Kingdom
Penmaenmawr
Conwy
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron0708
mbmbmbmbmb
wittdooley wrote:
baba44713 wrote:
kevwill wrote:

And another thing. How on earth did you guys let Turkey beat you?! What were you thinking??!!


Well, we wanna join the EU so it's best not to step on anyone's toes. And we already beat Germany who will today win the championship, so going further would just be rubbing it in anyways. :)


Guess Not.


Espana por favor!!!!

What a relief that the perennial over-achieving nation got stuffed in the final. Only 1-0, but they were 'mullered'.
ronaldinho @boardspace.net
Taiwan

flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
I agree Lost Cities is overproduced. The board is okay. The cards are too big however. The oversized cards actually makes it harder to handle.

And I also agree that relatively speaking, traditional card games (and abstract strategy games for that matter) on BGG are vastly underrated.
Troy English
Canada
Ottawa
flag msg tools
patron09
mbmb
I disagree with you on the result of your post.

I.e. Lost cities == suckage. On the other hand, it was still amusingly written, so, thumbs given for your creative writing skills.

Nice quick filler. Only comes out for us when we only have a few minutes, but, when that is the case, it's the one that comes out the most.

But I feel your pain on writing a bad review of a well liked game. I quite dislike one of the current hot games and wrote a review to that effect. (Race for the Galaxy).


You should have heard the vitriol I received over it. Much less some rather incredibly poor logic on the part of many of the people who responded.





Edwin Priest
United States
Palatine
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron070809
mbmbmbmbmb
I certainly respect your right to dislike this game, and cannot criticize you for it. But honesty, all you have really done here is complain about it being overproduced (which it probably is), overvalued (which it might be) and not as good as Rummy (which you don't like either). Where's the beef?
Evan S
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron070809
mbmbmb
baba44713 wrote:
Yes, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna pick on one of the BGG's sacred cows, the beloved Knizia's Lost Cities. ...


While it is fairly popular, it is far from a sacred cow.

These are some comments from people who rate it a 5. There are even harsher comments from BGGers in the lower ratings

"The theme is oh so thin. Basically, just a deck of cards and you try to string a bunch of number together. Some subtle strategy. You'll get your money's worth on this one. Everyone talks about their wives/girlfriends liking this game. My wife is no exception."

"Boring, luck is in control of 90% of the game. I wanted to like it. I played it with my girlfriend 5-6 times over the last 4 months. I, yawn, excuse me. I just played a game and the opium-like effect of the game is still hanging like a London fog in the cobwebs of my unused mind. This is a game that will appeal to the non-thinking crowd. Perhaps if I play this game anymore I shall run the risk of falling face down if a puddle of my own drool. Not my type of game. Very nice cards though. "

"My wife absolutely hates this game. Bought it because of all the spouse recommendations. Total bust. "

"A reasonable choice for a two-player game when neither player wants to think much. "

"This game continues to get rave revies. I just don't see it. "

"This game didn't do anything for me and my wife, the art wasn't that inspiring (to me) either. We didn't care for the mechanism of having to play a card, then select another card to your hand, which made the game more random and not as much about strategy in playing the right card that turn. "

"Fun the first times you play it. Later it is too much luck and less thinking. "

"I can't understand the hype about this game as I found it rather boring? Go play Battle Line instead. Gave it away but found another one for $7 which I couldn't resist. :/ I sold that one, this game is bad. "



Or just browse throw the reviews. There is no shortage of negative reviews.
Last edited on 2008-06-30 06:58:19 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
paul


msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
baba44713 wrote:
...if you scour through the threads and gallery pictures, noone has made a home-made version of Lost Cities. Noone. Even though it is horribly easy to do so with two traditional card decks and some black marker, noone did it. Why? Because, let's face it noone would play it. Lose the pretty pictures, lose the appeal. Yep, it's such a great game.



I have a homemade copy of Lost Cities produced from a thrift-store copy of Five Crowns. I used jokers to represent the missing twos, and I have tiny thin stickers on the jokers to designate its color. It's likely no one made a copy with a marker because that would be really smelly and messy.

Still, I want to support Rio Grande, so I will be buying a copy of the game for my dad and his wife as gift. Even playing my "ugly" version on a recent visit, they really enjoyed the tension of the gameplay.

We, like many others, enjoy the game because of the game.


Miguel
France
Caen
(from Valencia, Spain)
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron060708
mbmbmbmbmb
baba44713 wrote:
...if you scour through the threads and gallery pictures, noone has made a home-made version of Lost Cities. Noone. Even though it is horribly easy to do so with two traditional card decks and some black marker, noone did it. Why? Because, let's face it noone would play it. Lose the pretty pictures, lose the appeal. Yep, it's such a great game.

Sorry, I did, and I play it a lot...



:blush:

PS: Well, I used the pictures, but I think I would play it without them too. I play it a lot with my son and once in the game we think of "blue 6" or "red 9", not about expeditions.

PS2: I know the theme is thin, and that you forget about it when you play, but at least it makes explaining the game easier...
Last edited on 2008-06-30 09:06:46 CST (Total Number of Edits: 2)
paul atreides
Scotland

flag msg tools
Couldn't agree more. Whilst I absolutely love his Lord of the Rings, I find his 'card' games merely loosely themed remakes of existing traditional card games with a small mathematical twist. Knizia obviously has a pet algorhythm which he continually reapplies to existing games and just how 'loose' are those tacked on themes ??? Still, he'll always be a favourite of mine solely for introducing me to the co-operativer game of Lord of the Rings. It was the first time myself and fellow gamers had played against 'the game'. Boy, did we get our butts kicked but we loved the game even more for that.
Sheamus Parkes
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
patron070809
mbmbmbmbmb
I've played many rounds of lost cities with a standard deck of cards. Chuck out the aces. The face cards become investment cards. Just play with 4 suits. It works just fine, and is still a lot of fun.
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
BoardGameGeek and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.