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Mendon Dornbrook
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In the Year of the Dragon » Forums » Reviews
Decidedly Uninteresting 2-player
As a gamer whose primary gaming group consists of himself and one other player, I value games that have good 2-player variants for them. Many games advertise that they are good for two players but fail to deliver. In the Year of the Dragon is one them.

Game Play
Briefly, the game mechanisms have players stocking their palaces with servants to fend off crises looming on the horizon. However, there is always a scarcity of resources with which to fend them off. At the same time, players must not only avoid the consequences of the the crises, but also earn victory points with which to win the game.

A game turn looks something like this:

Action
Players take actions that either help them to earn VPs (building new palaces, collecting fixed VP incomes, doing research), help them to ward off the crises (make fireworks, earn money, grow rice) or minimally affect the game (maybe change the turn order). Actions are selected from a group, somewhat like role selection in PR, except when a player selects one action in a group, the whole group becomes occupied.

Hire a Worker
Since the actions are dependent on the workers you hire, you are always hiring workers in advance to improve the actions above at a later time in the game. Some of your workers will die. That's ok.

Avert the Crisis
This is what you've hired your workers for and taken actions for. If you're prepared for this crisis, it generally means that you can take a free action earlier in the the turn to earn victory points.

Score VPs
At the end of each turn, everyone counts up their VPs and scores them. If you're behind just one point at the end of each turn, you will be behind 12 points by the end of the game.

Why this game isn't particularly enjoyable
The game lacks tension because, early in the game, one player tends to get a lead over the other and then is able to exploit that lead for the rest of the game. After six turns, the tension is lost and, with six turns to go, both players have a pretty solid understanding of who will win. As a result, the game isn't worth playing for more than six turns. The follow comments explain why this game becomes boring for both the winner and the loser rather quickly.

Variable Turn Order
Turn order in the game is determined often by who is doing the best in the game. For example, there's a crap action that a player can take in order to advance his ability to go first. However, a player who is behind in points is usually spending his efforts trying to get VPs to catch up or avert the coming crisis. A player in the lead can solidify his position as the first player in a turn by selecting this action just once at the right moment in the game (or twice, if at the wrong moment). While the person going first generally lacks the ability to hire more experienced workers, this only arises once or twice in a game with potential consequences. Likely, that player will be able face the consequence of the crisis without losing as much as the player in second does during most of the rest of the game. In other words, the advantage conferred to the first player is not balanced by the disadvantage that it carries with it.

Actions are grouped
The seven actions are grouped into two piles in a two player game. After the person who goes first selects an action, if the player going second wishes to take any of the actions in the same group as the first player, he must pay an exorbitant amount of Yuan (money) in order to do so. This punishes the loser even more by causing him to spend precious money to take actions simply because he is not in the lead. While being in the lead VP wise and having the start player lead are not directly tied to one another, my opponent and I have noticed that they tend to be correlated. As a result, the player in second place tends to start out close in VPs but then gradually fall behind as the game progresses.

Punish the Loser
This is an exciting mechanism to introduce to a genre of games that tend to shy away from hurting players. Most Euro games do not have a "punish the loser" mechanism. In the Year of the Dragon does and it is part of the downside of this game. Like Risk, it is very difficult for the little guy to get back into the game (because it's smart gameplaying to eliminate him). It is hard for the player in last place to get into first in a second player game because the advantage given to the player in the lead is too powerful to be overcome.

In the Year of the Dragon looks like it will be much more fun to play with four or five players. However, unlike Samurai or Race for the Galaxy, it does not reduce itself to 2 players particularly well and retain the same level of tension. We have not tried our own home grown variants for In the Year of the Dragon, however, I will share some ideas to make 2-player more fun.

1 Remove the soldiers, the mongol invasion and the parade action from the game (playing just 10 turns). This will make the fight for who goes first a little closer. The other option to remedy this situation is to have a "governor" effect and the player order rotates, disregarding the person track.

2 Decrease the cost of taking an action after the first player to either 2 or 1 yuan so that the second player doesn't get hosed by a clever/lucky opponent.

3 On the sixth turn, allow the player going second to hire an experienced worker if they would otherwise be hiring an inexperienced worker.

If you have any suggestions to help balance this game for 2-players or any experiences, please post them.
ronaldinho @boardspace.net
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Turn order in the game is determined often by who is doing the best in the game.


Is it? Turn order is determined by the people influence track, not the VP track. Granted who is doing the best may be determined by turn order, but that's not quite the same thing as the statement above.

Lego is a toy, but a toy isn't necessarily lego.

And knowing that, maybe one should fight harder for turn order? Note that whoever wins the turn order had to hire shittier workers.

Also, with two groups of actions, you will have at least 3 actions to choose from even going second. If you can manage, by careful long term planning, to make use of those actions...

Having said that, I do prefer to stay ahead in turn order. And I've never played 2 player. Getting an iron hold on turn order may be more of a problem in 2 player games, I concede.

Quote:
This punishes the loser even more by causing him to spend precious money to take actions simply because he is not in the lead.


Again, not true. The person going second may be leading in VPs, but losing in person influence track. If you are losing in person influence track, the price you have to pay, and it is the only one, is to have second choice in actions. In fact, that's the whole point of winning the person influence track. Now whether you fall behind on the VP track as a result of losing the person influence track is another issue, but the game doesn't reward the leader on the VP track in any way at all.

You can make an argument that whoever wins the person influence track will invariably win the VP track. But given both players know this, they can fight accordingly for the turn order.

There is no punish the loser mechanism. The game doesn't do anything to the player behind on the VP track. The game lets the player winning the influence track choose actions first, which is the whole point of winning said track. Presumably, he had to hire shittier workers for this privilege, shittier workers that the other player wasn't willing to hire to fight for the privilege of going first.
Anthony Rubbo
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Wow, I couldn't disagree more. This is a fabulous 2-player game, with a tremendous amount of tension. Just today I played a 2-player with the final score 102-101. The only way the loser will continually be punished is if he digs a hole for himself, which you will learn not to do quickly. If you are not ahead in the person track, it should be because you are doing something else which is better benefitting you. Also, the 2-player game is where the Warriors really shine, as the fight for the person track can be important at key times. Getting 3 helmets, and pinging the helmet action twice for a +8 initiative, for example, is a very interesting option. You're giving up two turns, but the benefits down the line can be huge. Hardly a "crap action", as the initial poster suggests.

Like any great 2-player, the important part is to be nimble, and react well to your opponent.

I will reiterate, this is a fabulous 2-player game.
Chris Linneman
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I have to disagree that the Person Track creates a runaway leader problem. In a 2p game, I will often deliberately fall behind on the Person Track in order to get the experienced people, of whom there are only 1 each in a 2p game. These people confer huge advantages, saving lives in the case of the healer, saving actions or lives in the case of the farmer, getting points in the case of the monk/scholar. Because there are at least 3 actions to choose from when going second in a 2p game, going last isn't as harsh as it is with more players. Also, with use of tax collectors, it is often possible to be able to afford to take any action you choose even when last on the Person Track.

I do agree there is less tension than with more players, but this is because there are less people to screw with your plans, and more actions are always available to take.
Alan Reeve
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I'll 4th that this is a fine 2 player game. Usually we see one player jump into the lead and the other player quickly catch up at the end keeping the tension there.

One thing we did wrong with our 1st (and maybe 2nd) 2 player game was to not remove enough of the worker tiles so I'm wondering if it's conceivable that that could have been your problem. I know that was a BIG change when we noted that error.
Steven Duff
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Wow. Lacks tension, runaway leader, and punishes the loser? Not in any of our two player sessions of this.

Put me in the "couldn't disagree more" category as well.
Alan Kwan
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I'm sorry to say that, but I find Mendon's points mostly nonsense. The (2-player) game is nothing like what he writes about.

Sometimes, when the person point tracks start to open a wider gap, the game will rest on whether the first player is smart enough (and be flexible enough in his plans) to grab the elder persons just when the second player needs them. If he fails to do so, the second player will get all the great elders and win the game with them, while the gap in the persons track becomes bigger. You can easily win playing second in a 2-player game if you're also able to get the elders you want from that position.

Quote:
However, a player who is behind in points is usually spending his efforts trying to get VPs to catch up or avert the coming crisis.

If he has not been earning VP and has not been preparing for events, what has he been doing? Of course he deserves to lose.

Quote:
It is hard for the player in last place to get into first in a second player game because the advantage given to the player in the lead is too powerful to be overcome.

You are behind on the persons track and that is not because you have got more useful persons? Then why?

Quote:
1 Remove the soldiers, the mongol invasion and the parade action from the game (playing just 10 turns). This will make the fight for who goes first a little closer.

If the second player wastes his moves trying to chase the first player unsuccessfully on the persons track, he will surely lose. Against a first player who is endeavoring to defend his first player position, the second player can easily win by letting him sail away and instead grabbing the great elders, builders, and ladies quickly.

Quote:
The other option to remedy this situation is to have a "governor" effect and the player order rotates, disregarding the person track.

This is a totally stupid variant which entirely breaks the game balance.

Quote:
2 Decrease the cost of taking an action after the first player to either 2 or 1 yuan so that the second player doesn't get hosed by a clever/lucky opponent.

This is in the exact opposite direction of the majority of previous posts which complained about the 2-player game.

Quote:
3 On the sixth turn, allow the player going second to hire an experienced worker if they would otherwise be hiring an inexperienced worker.

Doesn't make sense; looks like you're playing some rules wrong.
Chris Linneman
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mdornbrook wrote:

2 Decrease the cost of taking an action after the first player to either 2 or 1 yuan so that the second player doesn't get hosed by a clever/lucky opponent.


I have to second Alan Kwan's highlighting of this variant as particularly egregious. In my last 2p game, I had 15 yuan at one point. This would allow me, using this variant, to take whatever action I wanted, for 7 turns (likely the remainder of the game). This is too great a return for the 2 tax actions I took to get this money (with 2 tax collectors). The game is balanced quite well with a 3 yuan cost for doubling up on an action. Reducing the cost would make the helmet action, and people points as a whole, nearly useless.
Alan Kwan
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LemonyFresh wrote:
Also, the 2-player game is where the Warriors really shine, as the fight for the person track can be important at key times. Getting 3 helmets, and pinging the helmet action twice for a +8 initiative, for example, is a very interesting option. You're giving up two turns, but the benefits down the line can be huge. Hardly a "crap action", as the initial poster suggests.

I'm beginning to feel that the Parade action has been underrated. It's not a great action I'm looking forward to choose (I'd rather Build and, to sustain that, Harvest), but when my turn order is low, it's sometimes the best action among the ones left.

It's probably more reliably useful in 2-player because it has a more immediate effect on the Person phase than on the Action phase next turn, and in 2-player the initiative tends to matter more in the former. Also, if you do it to knock out an opponent (usually with a Draught), you don't just knock out an opponent: you knock out the opponent and win the game.
o'Lava
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One thing we have done wrong in a 2-player game, which makes a big difference:
be aware there are only 4 of each persons in play (3 younger and only 1 older!)
This way I find it a good 2-player game.
Mendon Dornbrook
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Huzzah! No personal attacks for a negative review! Thanks for disagreeing with me with reason.

To respond, yes, we have been playing with the correct number of workers scaled to the players.

I'll give it a few more runs around the bush.
Nico Solitander
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Great review! Even though I disagree with you. We've played it around 20 times and never encountered a runaway leader problem even with the consitions you described applied. In fact, most games have ended in some 1 or 2 point victories. I wonder if we're doing something wrong.
Last edited on 2008-08-04 07:22:56 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Mendon Dornbrook
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Quote:
I wonder if we're doing something wrong.


Or if I'm doing something wrong or there's just a disparity between my opponent and I making good VP decisions.
Mendon Dornbrook
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Played again a few more times. I imagine that this is what people who do not play our beloved games feel like when we force them. "Yup, I'm playing a board game. wow... What am I doing that matters, again?"

For Trade.
Last edited on 2008-08-08 00:13:12 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Alan Kwan
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mdornbrook wrote:
Or if I'm doing something wrong or there's just a disparity between my opponent and I making good VP decisions.

This game can have a runaway leader, but it's because of difference in playing skill, not because of unbalanced game mechanics or luck. Many of humankind's greatest games, including chess, go, GIPF project games and Puerto Rico, can have a runaway leader; this doesn't stop them from being great games.

The 2-player game has the convenience that, if one player is clearly winning, the other can just resign. This game is not straightforward, and the novice can have many misconceptions; the winner may share some of his insights, as a courtesy.

I understand that some players may prefer lighter entertainment such as Carcassonne and Lost Cities, while some may prefer games of skill such as this one. It's just personal preference and there's nothing wrong with that. But 5P YotD is to a large extent as much a game of skill as the 2P game. Some strategies change a bit, but a player who doesn't "get it" will lose every time to strong opponents regardless of how many he's playing against.
Last edited on 2008-08-08 12:31:33 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Steven Duff
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mdornbrook wrote:
For Trade.


I guess that's easier than finding smarter friends that can at least play a competent game of this...

Would have liked to have seen some final scores or a session log to see just what you're complaining about here.
Mendon Dornbrook
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Steven Duff wrote:
Would have liked to have seen some final scores or a session log to see just what you're complaining about here.


See above for what I'm complaining about. As for scores, they were within 4-5 points of one another each game. However, once one player grabbed a small advantage, that player was able to expand it to consistent control, simply pacing the player that had fallen behind.
Corin Friesen
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mdornbrook wrote:
Steven Duff wrote:
Would have liked to have seen some final scores or a session log to see just what you're complaining about here.


See above for what I'm complaining about. As for scores, they were within 4-5 points of one another each game. However, once one player grabbed a small advantage, that player was able to expand it to consistent control, simply pacing the player that had fallen behind.


Now nothing that you complained of makes sense to me.

What would you like in exchange for In the Year of the Dragon?
Andrew Lazar
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For the record I was the opponent of this reviewer and I was seriously bored winning any of these games. The randomness of the action selection also bothered me as I'm used to Puerto Rico having a more consistent consequence to the action selection. If you're going to make 1/4 of the player's choices subject to randomness it's too random for my tastes. Playing this game felt like staring at a progress bar in Windows. Long, dull, and slow.

I'd rather play Go.
Corin Friesen
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I'm up for a game of Go! Got an account on KGS or IGS?
Joseph
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05070809

Hi

We found the game a bit dry with two. Maybe it's us, but we seemed to spend most of our circling each other like a pair of equally matched boxers. There was a certain predictable nature to the struggle. My wife commented that there was a bit of a problem with the leader pulling away quickly once the advantage was formed.

We're both analytical types, so perhaps our results are not surprising. ;)

Seems best as a 3-4 player game, with the 2 player game being significantly less interesting. (At least for us)

A lot of different games CAN be played two player, but that may not always be the sweet spot.

Regards
Houserule Jay
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While I am not going to try to change the OP's mind as he seems to have made it up already, I will post the link to the 2 player variant I came up with for anyone interested.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/269806

While I see some people are enjoying the 2 player game, after I had played quite a few 3 to 5 players games of this I found the 2 player version to be very lacking in many ways. I have played the variant and find it more interesting than the 2 player as written, YMMV.

J
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