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Paul DeStefano
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OK, I have a starter set now. I haven't played yet, and I'm not sure if I'll have time this weekend.

Here's the quick look.

Map: Slightly heavier than poster stock. Nice, if somewhat monotone, art. Difficult to see the hex markings for various terrain. It won't do well in play without markers on the board. The colored lines to denote terrain types are just too thin and among muddled artwork.
Grade: C+

Dice: The dice are actual impressed dice, not just inked. This is a good thing. They are fairly rounded at the edges. These have blank faces that have paint smears on them, kind of not clean. The numbers and icons aren't 'crisp', but they'll do. They are of average quality at best.
Grade: B-

Rule book: Nice and easy to read, good stock.
Grade: B+

Cards: Pretty linen finish. Rounded corners, high quality print, easy to read.
Grade: A

Components: (Tiles, counters) Very thick, linen finish, clear graphics.
Grade: A-

Minis: They're nice and chunky. The poses are kind of OK. The detail is OK. None of it is "very good" or better. The paint ranges from moments of "very good" to "what the hell is this crap", even on a single figure. Spots like the teeth and horns of the EzoGhoul are impressive. The "shading" done by painting a line on the inner crook of an elbow, for example, are embarassing. The shade colors are absurd (human flesh shaded with burnt umber, no transition), painted with no skill, a brush that's too big, and simply thick paint, no effort to wash or shade. The inner arm of the technomancer is grey, with basically a huge, poorly painted dark green plus sign painted bisecting the arm (the crook of the elbow, and the indent between bi/tricep and the forearm muscles), thick and clumsy. It ruins the look of the figure, since the arm is extended and pretty much a focal point.

Now, once these guys are on the table, they look OK. But they don't stand up to scrutiny in the slightest. They show casting lines, and some of the color schemes are just muddy and painted in such a way that if my 9 year old son had done it, I would make him redo it. As game pieces, they're OK. As display pieces... They need work. The colors are fairly mute, which is OK for warriors on the field, but looks like random drippings at some points. The EzoGhoul is almost gaudy. I really wish they kept the original purple for the upcoming Brotherhood release, at least it would show that humans haven't somehow lost the technology for colorful textiles. If a Star Wars or D&D mini were blown up, that's the quality, complete with the little specks that are mispainted a bit, but now blown up. It's similar to the larger HeroScape minis, which have that glaze wash at least to fake shading. Nothing remotely near the quality of AT-43 or Confrontation. AT-43 looks Golden Demon quality in comparison. If you're making a mini this big, for one, I would expect the sculpts to show detail that you can't in smaller minis. This would require a harder plastic to hold the detail. For two, I would expect a paint job that was scaled to the larger figure beyond the drybrushed teeth. These are kid toy quality. Not even good kid toy quality.
Grade: C+

I have been looking forward to this game for years. To hold the Algeroth team in your hand and call it $20 if it were a warband is a travesty. That makes a regular dude about $5 ($10 for a large), and the quality is not there. When they were $4/$8 due to the more figs in a random booster, it may have been reasonable. Or if they didn't appear to be painted by a third grader with his dad helping him on a few tight spots it might be reasonable. The 20% price increase and problems with putting specific teams together with a crippled trading and secondary market is painful.

If it plays like the greatest thing since the D20, then it might still be reasonable. I'll get a review up as soon as I get 5 games under my belt. Great play may make this game, because the minis certainly do not. Of course, the errors in the rulebook don't make me hugely confident, but we'll see.
Paul DeStefano
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The box is real nice. B+.
Universal Head
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Argh! I can forgive anything but obvious mould lines. Repainting I can do, but I at least expect the figures to be clean first.
Paul DeStefano
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They aren't terrible. Its not like chunks of flash. But on my Ezoghoul, its pretty 1970s action figure quality. The other guys hide it pretty well. Since the EG is organic, it does stand out.
Universal Head
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Anyway, unfortunately, by the time this reaches Australia it will be ridiculously unaffordable.
D-Rock Roberts
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When is this officially out? I went to my 'not-so-local' gaming store yesterday and asked, they told me they were now being told it was again pushed back to OCTOBER by Fantasy Flight. Is this accurate?

By the way, thanks for the review, it seems to be pretty much what I was expecting, which isn't bad, but isn't super great either.

D.

Paul DeStefano
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UniversalHead wrote:
Anyway, unfortunately, by the time this reaches Australia it will be ridiculously unaffordable.


Its not exactly cheap here.
Paul DeStefano
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Cardboard Carnage wrote:
When is this officially out?


You can check various discussion at the FFG boards. The date changes constantly. The problems at launch are absurd.
Neil Atwood
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I'll beg to differ slightly on the Starter Set. I'm an interested fan of Mutant Chronicles, and have actually played a couple of decent 7/7/7 (gold/silver/bronze)games. Brotherhood vs. Dark Legion, and Bauhaus vs. Capital.

Map - B (good for what it is, and Heroscape tiles work fine)

Dice - B (much more interesting than "Doom" dice and a really neat mechanic, being etched is a definite plus, although Heavy Melee should have been red, not yellow... 8^)

Rule Book - C - (nice presentation, but far too many mistakes)

Cards - A (good mix of tactics and options, and having a nice sampling of the starting factions was very appreciated to get a feel for different style armies)

Components - A - (some of them didn't punch out as cleanly as I'd like)

Minis - C (while the sculpts are much more interesting than the old MC figures, I would have liked to have seen some more intriguing (albiet subjective) detailing. The painting was servicable for game pieces, but the lack of consistency of quality hurts the overall product. The double-hex figures are tricky to manuever though. Plan ahead on your movements and attacks)

Gameplay - B+ (the army building aspect is very unique with great variable opportunities, the battlefield is lethal [particuarly burst fire] and you can get in the mix quite quickly. I'm looking forward to a lot more games.)

I'm sure Fantasy Flight is working very hard on this, and the fact that it is no longer blind purchase is very appreciated. Cost is a bit steep, but such as it is.

Hope all are enjoying Gen Con. Lock and Load, Brother Gunn

Peter Mc
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Somewhat as I had feared...tons of folks cheered when the non-CMG announcement was made, and now we are hearing it is too expensive per figure. That's a big part of why companies go CMG in the first place.

Too bad about the sculpts and paint jobs though...regardless of gameplay issues I was convinced the figures would, at least, be outstanding. Without that I won't buy. Maybe it's only the starters that are that bad, and the expansion packs are better? Let's hope so.
John W
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Paul, it takes a big man to admit he was wrong.
I applaud your ability to render judgment solely on what you have in hand, instead of what you've said before.

So I take it you'd retract much of what you said in April in this thread?
Specifically:
Geosphere wrote:
reapersaurus wrote:
2) You didnt reply to the (IMO) well-made points/observations so far in this thread. Pointing out that the pics are larger than real scale is just dodging the serious observations made thus far.


I think the sculpts are wonderful. They feel plodding and ropy in their strength. Not fantasy hopping, but trudging under the weight of the war.

If someone doesn't like them and I do, I see no points to counter. Its opinion. The game isn't out. People are deriding a game based on some reviewers enthusiasm.

I think the new Ezoghoul and the NecroMutant are great.

Geosphere wrote:
UniversalHead wrote:
I'm beginning to think it is completely pointless saying anything on BGG, because there is always someone who has the exact opposite viewpoint, even if it seems hard to believe!

I'm pretty amazed that anyone could think these two static, lifeless, blobby, cartoony sculpts are great, and especially amazed that comes from Paul, whose opinion I respect - sorry Paul! They just look straight out of the early days of fantasy miniatures to me (I was there). The other sculpts I've seen are fine, but these two are just silly.

The reviewer goes on about the detail in the flesh painted individually, when it's just a rough drybrush. But I don't expect much from pre-painted jobs. I do expect a halfway decent, 'realistic' looking sculpt though, and these just look laughable to me - especially the Ezoghoul - like they were made in plasticine by a 4th grader.

But, they'll always be someone who thinks otherwise!


Understood.

But to me,
Old Ezoghoul: Fantasy CGI creature, prancing unrealistically. Cool, but kind of silly and over the top.
New Ezoghoul: Believable lumbering hulk using its massive weight to heave a weapon. It FEELS like a warrior and is easily relatable to real world beasts.

And by all means, a NecroMutant SHOULD be blobby and lifeless, not looking refined and vibrant. He should feel like something formless taking up space. A grunt in every sense. He should be awkward.

Having seen a bunch of the sculpts online, I have to say the characters have "feel", "realness" and "heft". There are humans in mid-jump with waving hair, and lumbering things that must creak as they move. There are hover bikes with riders crouched in speed. The sculpts convey motion or lack thereof.

I'll say nothing of detail until I hold one in my hand. Online pics show nothing, being mis-scaled, possibly prototype and who knows how poorly photoed.

But I am absolutely intrigued by the army construction, which seems as innovatotive as BattleLore claimed it was going to be.
Excellent review of the presentation of the game, Paul, as usual. thumbsup
Rules and gameplay are important to a miniatures game, but when the competetion and pricepoint for miniature quality is the way it is currently, inferior mini quality is death for a miniatures game.
Last edited on 2008-08-16 15:58:02 CST (Total Number of Edits: 2)
Paul DeStefano
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