geek
Recently Viewed
Hot Games
Agricola
Dominion
Battlestar Galactica
Settlers of Catan, The
Android
Pandemic
Arkham Horror
Race for the Galaxy
War of the Ring
Le Havre
Carcassonne
Power Grid
Puerto Rico
Axis & Allies Anniversary Edition
Cosmic Encounter
Ghost Stories
Twilight Struggle
Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization
Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! - Russia 1941-1942
Descent: Journeys in the Dark
StarCraft: The Board Game
Tigris & Euphrates
Stone Age
Combat Commander: Pacific
Apples to Apples
Ticket to Ride
Risk
Talisman 4th Edition
Caylus
Space Alert
Memoir '44
Last Night on Earth: The Zombie Game
Galaxy Trucker
Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition
Brass
StarCraft: Brood War
Lost Cities: The Board Game
BattleLore
El Grande
Bang!
Wasabi!
Shogun
Citadels
Railroad Tycoon
Race for the Galaxy: The Gathering Storm
Clue
Formula D
Acquire
Combat Commander: Europe
Tide of Iron
Rules | Subscriptions | Bookmarks | Search | Account | Moderators
Recommend
14
4 Posts
New Thread | Printer Friendly | Subscribe | Bookmark
Your Tags: Login to Add Tags | View 
Popular Tags: [View All]
James Caddick
flag
El Grande is an area control game where players bid to choose particular action cards, the lowest bidder then getting the chance to bid first in the next round. There are three scoring rounds, and nine action rounds. I have found that it's a medium length game, usually taking a couple of hours to play depending on the number of players. It plays well with three, four or five players (I haven't tried it with just two players). I personally prefer it with four players, as with five it's a bit too chaotic and with three it's a little predictable. But then you probably know all this and more already. So what do I think of the game?

Well, I very much enjoy it! The random element is kept to a minimum, but high enough so that no two games feel exactly the same. The bidding system is fun (and not unlike German Whist if you've ever played that). There is a good balance between short-term tactics and longer-term strategy (at least in theory). I like the fact that there is a good deal of player interaction. You can choose to concentrate on your own game and maximise your points per turn, or turn your attention to your opponents and aim to maximise your points relative to opponents by choosing an action that gets you a few points but also takes some points away from your opponent. I think that the region spinner is a nice touch, adding an element of bluff and double-bluff to the game. I have enjoyed every game that I've played.

I have two main gripes that would stop me considering this as a top tier game. Firstly, the Mario Kart effect. It seems to me that it is a disadvantage to be in the lead early in the game. The scoring track makes it all too obvious who is winning and other players respond accordingly (it might be interesting to play this game with hidden scoring). Mario Kart has an inbuilt mechanism to help the trailing players catch up - they get better items (e.g. lightning, blue shells). Although El Grande has no such mechanism, it does seem to me that it's too easy for the chasing players to gang up on the leader. An early lead gained through good play will too often translate into defeat. A corrollary of this is the free-rider effect (yes, I'm an economist). Any player/s who takes it upon themself/themselves to bring down the leading player will often be overtaken by the last placed player/s. The chasing player expends all his energy catching the first placed player but allows the last placed player to march unmolested to a victory that they would never had got were it not for the second player's actions. You might say that this is just poor play but I think it's partly a result of the game design.

Secondly, while El Grande is good fun to play, I feel that it is not sufficiently rewarding of good strategic play (in fact because of the Mario Kart effect it may even punish good strategy). Of course I realise that this is partly due a lack of sophistication in my strategy, but I do believe that elements of the game itself exacerbate this problem. I think that the very best games give players early reward for improvements in strategy, whereas El Grande does not. I have played a number of games of El Grande where the player with the best strategy ended up not winning. Of course, even in the best games this will happen occassionaly, but I feel that in El Grande short-term tactics, and tacit co-operation between players tends to dominate over strategy.

However winning isn't everything! A particularly fun aspect of the game is that (in my experience) all or most players stand a chance of winning right up to the latter stages of the game. It can be quite dull when you a play a game where you've lost all hope of victory before the halfway mark. El Grande does tend to produce some nailbiting finishes as it comes down to the last scoring region to determine the winner. This, of course, is the positive side of the Mario Kart effect.

Despite my concerns I would recommend this game. It is a welcome addition to my boardgaming group's collection, not least because it is the only area control game we have. The game produces some tough decisions, close finishes and plenty of chances to get one-up on your opponent. Good stuff.
Jon Getty
flag
Avatar
You're certainly right that the leader can be easily bashed if he scores a ton of points without establishing as good board position. The extreme scenario of this is to open with the "Score first-place in each region" card, and place one cab in a number of high-scoring regions. The leader scores 20 points more than the others, and will now be mercilessly intrigued until he falls to last place.

On the other hand, if you play the King's card in the same situation, you can secure first place in 2-3 regions, get a solid board position, and let someone else play the scoring card for you. Now you're in second place, and the leader is a much easier intrigue target than you. Ideally, you spend the first half of the game building a strong board position with moderate points, then accelerate in rounds 6-9. Of course, with practice your opponents should attack the player with a good position, rather than the point leader.

Actually, it's a lot like Mario Kart... you hang in the pack, let the second place guy hit the leader, and save your blue shell to take the lead on the home stretch.
Last edited on 2008-08-28 16:06:08 CST (Total Number of Edits: 2)
Gary Sonnenberg
flag
Avatar
070809
TaxpayersMoney wrote:
I have played a number of games of El Grande where the player with the best strategy ended up not winning.


Hm, then was it really the best strategy?

I've gotta say that virtually all the points you make as down sides are why I like the game so much. (It's my only 10.)

I like the open scoring. It's fun to try to catch the leader or to try to maintain your lead.

I've got a long-term strategy - pretty much the same every game (and no, I'm not revealing my secrets here ninja ) - which tends to overcome short-term tactics and ganging up quite often. I play a lot and win a lot too. :)
Jeff Kunkel
flag
Avatar
05
I do think it's possible to start with a lead in El Grande and still win the game. It requires judicious use of your bidding cards (particularly the '1' and the '13') and diversification on the board. Careful attention to the Castillo also is very important. One thing to understand is that being ahead in points doesn't necessarily mean you're winning. Sometimes it's better to forgo the quick scoring (i.e. the region scoring cards) to lay the foundation for a larger gain in the scoring rounds. This may mean a temporary drop in your relative position.
 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
BoardGameGeek and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.