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Hi there - I had a chance to play the new edition yesterday and wanted to give an overview of it.
My first thought opening the box is - WOW! The components are brilliantly illustrated, the rulebook is in color with lots of pictures and explanations, and the mapboard - prepare yourselves now - is fully mounted! Quite a change for the GMT set, but it was neat to see. In addition, the map has the linen texture you see on higher quality Euros. One quibble - the cards don't have illustrations, which I find appealing in Nappy Wars and Here I Stand. You may have heard the colored leader stand mix is off, so you'll need to supplement with HIS or TNW black stands.
As for game play, here's how I saw it. Two caveats: it was my first play, and I had to leave before the final turn. But, I was able to get enough of an overview to offer an opinion.
The game simulates the wars surrounding the struggle for succession following Alexander the Great's sudden death in Babylon. Each player takes charge of 2 generals, forming a faction. They are randomly assigned, so no 2 games will ever be the same. I was initially intrigued by the interesting side games - you try to get legitimacy for your faction by performing various deeds like marrying Alexander's relatives, burying/guarding Alexander's corpse, and taking possession of his heirs. However, that wasn't really a big part of the game and in the end it was really an area control contest much like Hannibal. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I wish there were more paths to victory.
The good: The game does a great job of simulating the chaos surrounding Alexander's death - your faction could be completely cut off, united, or surrounded. I also like the legitimacy mechanic, which affects your ability to convince royal troops to fight for you.
The bad: If you fall behind early, it seems like it would be difficult to climb back into the game. There's also a LOT of down time, especially if any of the players are afflicted with Analysis Paralysis. During your turn, you play a card and THEN get to move all of your generals, which with four players takes a long time. My biggest criticism, though, is that the legitimacy mechanic wasn't fully utilized. I'm hoping that was because we were all newbies, because I love the idea of playing for legitimacy rather than VP's (yawn). By turn 3, it was just a land grab. I'd much rather play Here I Stand, which is also a long game but has so many unique paths to victory.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Will I play again? Probably not - I hate the idea of getting stuck in a death march. On the other hand, maybe an experienced group could make it go much faster.
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Interesting that you don't find legitimacy to be a big part of the game. If you can bury Alexander at Pellas, you get 10 legitimacy instantly. That's around 55% of the legitimacy you need to win the game. Not that it's easy to do, but with that and an heir or two, you're in very good shape. Since you've got turn 2-5 to do that, I'm surprised it turned into a basic land grab.
So I suppose it's worth asking, did the players give collecting legitimacy a real shot before heading off on a VP rampage?
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Hi -
I couldn't even imagine being able to get to Pella. You have to pass through everyone else's territory, will likely lose your champion status, and they will all know what you're up to. Have you seen it work? Again, this was just the first play...
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I haven't played in a long, long time, but if you maneuver carefully, you can make them attack you rather than being the aggressor. Right up until you reach Pella, mind you.
But yes, prestige victories do happen and are reasonably common. I suspect that you had a player or two that had a shot at one and missed an opportunity is all I'm saying. The VP victory is more straightforward (although harder) and therefore tends to be pursued by newer players.
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Interesting comments. I played through a couple of solo games over the weekend. During one of those games, my wife sat in for a turn or so playing one of the factions. I really like this game so far. It appears to me that the Perdiccas player has to seriously consider going for the legitimacy win given that he starts with nine LPs and can get 10 with a successful run to Pella. Of course, it depends on what other general Perdiccas is paired up with. If paired with Antipater, then you have to go for it since you won't need to lose your champion status. Otherwise, you likely will lose champion (-3LP) and you will likely be condemned along the way (-3LP). So without additional play on other heirs a successful burial won't secure the win on it's own. However, if you can marry someone then the legitimacy road is a good strategy. In the first solo game I played through (just to learn the rules) Perdiccas went for and won the legitimacy victory. Pediccas marched from Babylon into Syria on his turn. Then Eumenes (in Cilicia) stole the body of Alexander using treachery. Eumenes ran into Cappadocia to rendezvous with his ally Antigonus. On the next play, Lysimachus moved rapidly with his army and stomped the Antigonids and took the funeral cart himself. Immediately following that move, the fourth faction activated the Cappadocian army which suicided into Lysimachus's army. The Cappadocians lost, but Lysimachus was killed in the battle, and replaced with a minor general. All of this happened in one round of play. On Perdiccas's next card play, he force marched into Cappadocia and then smashed the minor general, recapturing the funeral cart. At this point Asia Minor was fairly devoid of troops, and Perdiccas was able to continue his march to Macedonia. He finally arrived, defeated the army of Antipater, buried Alexander, and married Thessalonice.
Last edited on 2008-09-22 11:42:26 CST (Total Number of Edits: 3)
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The game has multiple paths to victory, one of which is the land grab.
One other path is getting to 18 legitimacy. This can be done but takes work. As mentioned earlier, burying Alexander at Pella is a big help. And with being able to use cards for movement (as well as moving in the movement phase)you can get a good jumpoff.
Another path is to get one of the heirs (remember Perdiccas starts with one) and crown them on the appropriate turn. The beauty of that approach is that your legitimacy counts for VPs like land does, so if you have legitimacy you can win with less land.
I've been playing this game since the Avalon Hill original release, and players who ignore legitimacy (at least in our group) don't win.
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According to my experience it usually ends before the last turn, while both areas and legitimacy are still counted.
Last edited on 2008-09-26 17:16:26 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
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Jeff:
I think you are missing a huge element of the game with regard to Legitimacy, and that's how the Heirs Heracles and Alex IV fit in.
At the end of Turn 3, the player controlling Heracles (or the player with Alex IV at the end of Turn 4) will win IF they have more VP + Legitimacy than any other player.
So in effect, Legitimacy = VP until the start of turn 5. If you have a big Legitimacy total, you can stop someone from winning with an Heir much more easily (less VP to take or take away). Inversely, if you have Heracles and a wide Legitimacy cushion, you will need few VP to claim the win.
You can win with the instant VP victory at any time, of course, so there are players who will pursue that goal when the circumstances allow, and that's why table-talk is an important part of the game.
While too much "diplomacy" can definitely slow the game down, and any multiplayer game can be sabotaged by a particularly pokey player, there should be very little down-time for most players.
As for coming back from a bad position, the great thing about this game is that each Game Turn everyone basically starts over. Macedonian troops are very resiliant (they get dispersed rather than destroyed), and there are tons of ways to raise troops and claim territory, so even if you've been literally knocked off the board, you can come back the next turn and build a new kingdom (I've done it!).
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Posted Mon Sep 22,2008 03:25 am
