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Subject: Agricola PBEM?
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george glass
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Is there anyone playing Agricola by email? Has anyone converted Agricola to playing on-line? I'd love to play this wonderful game, but can't play in person. :shake:
BT Carpenter
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07
there is a solo flash game online here in the files section.
Nick Fisk
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05060708
byronczimmer wrote:
there is a solo flash game online here in the files section.


Well, there goes my afternoon.

:D


N.
Richard Dewsbery
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I've found it just too fiddly to be any fun. It would be fine if it automated everything - and superb if it took into account the effects of the various cards. But as it is, you end up having to move all the virtual counters around by hand most of the time. At which point, you might as well move the *real* counters around, and have the extra advantage of being able to see all your cards much more clearly. Unless space taken is a HUGE factor for you, I'd always look to play the solo game with the real components rather than using the Flash version.
Ross Moulden
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RDewsbery wrote:
I've found it just too fiddly to be any fun. It would be fine if it automated everything - and superb if it took into account the effects of the various cards. But as it is, you end up having to move all the virtual counters around by hand most of the time. At which point, you might as well move the *real* counters around, and have the extra advantage of being able to see all your cards much more clearly. Unless space taken is a HUGE factor for you, I'd always look to play the solo game with the real components rather than using the Flash version.


Or if you've played the game a few times but don't have access to a copy of it regularly...
Branko K.
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I don't think this would work as a PBEM. Think about it, three players with four family members each would need 12 e-mails just to finish one round. I think that would be a bit excessive, unless you are playing interactively - but in that case a multiplayer flash game would be much more appropriate then PBEM.
Jason ☼ Spears
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05060708
baba44713 wrote:
I don't think this would work as a PBEM. Think about it, three players with four family members each would need 12 e-mails just to finish one round. I think that would be a bit excessive, unless you are playing interactively - but in that case a multiplayer flash game would be much more appropriate then PBEM.
I think it would work fine. So what if it requires 12 emails per round, there are only 14 rounds. In the Shadow of the Emperor works ok in PBEM, Agricola can too. Most of what will be holding it back is the extensive amount of programming required for the 300+ cards.
BT Carpenter
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RDewsbery wrote:
I've found it just too fiddly to be any fun. It would be fine if it automated everything - and superb if it took into account the effects of the various cards. But as it is, you end up having to move all the virtual counters around by hand most of the time. At which point, you might as well move the *real* counters around, and have the extra advantage of being able to see all your cards much more clearly. Unless space taken is a HUGE factor for you, I'd always look to play the solo game with the real components rather than using the Flash version.


The game doesn't automate anything.

I can run through a flash game in a short period of time at my PC.

I have to clear a table, set up, shuffle, deal, etc when I'm playing 'solo'.
Chris Franka
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baba44713 wrote:
Three players with four family members each would need 12 e-mails just to finish one round.


Not only that, but there are plenty of interrupts that may not follow a specific player order. For example, there are many cards that let you take resources when someone else takes an action, sometimes taking them not just from the supply but from the person performing the action.

If you are playing a 5-player game, with players A-E sitting in a circle, and player D has an interrupt with player A's action, how do they specify that in a PBEM game? Do you email the current game state to everyone with EVERY action that is taken? Or do players only receive the updated game state when it is their turn?

With the former, that's a lot of unnecessary email, with 4 emails being sent before a player gets to take an action.

But with the latter (one email sent only after the previous four players have taken their action), a player may miss their chance to perform an interrupt, or they may have to say "No, wait, I wanted to perform this interrupt. Let's undo the last few moves so I can perform this interrupt." If that's allowed, they would be able to see how the actions after the interrupt opportunity played out, and if they like them, they can leave them be, but if they don't like them, they can say, "Reverse time, I'm performing an interrupt of an action from three players ago" which may change subsequent actions.

(As an example, player A takes 3 wood from the "3 wood" space. Player B sees that no one else has enough wood to build a room, decides to take 4 clay, knowing that they can choose "Build Room" next time around if they see that someone after them accumulates enough wood to potentially take that space with a later action. Then Player C plays an action. BUT THEN, Player D (who just got the updated game state via email because it is their turn) says "Wait, I'm using my occupation that lets me buy one wood from a player (in this case, player A) for one food any time wood is taken from the board using an action (which player A did)." That gives Player D enough wood to choose "Build Room" as well, and they go ahead and choose "Build Room." Player B then says, "Well, if I had known Player D had enough wood to take "Build Room" after Player A's action, I would have chosen that action. I chose to take clay because I knew no one could choose "Build Room" with their next action." Then you have to undo Player B's clay action and let them trade it for Build Room, then redo Player C's action, and so on. All very messy.)

A non-PBEM alternative to this would be a central website accessible to players that always reflects the current game state like the excellent TI3Wiki.org. But that has to be maintained and updated by someone, essentially a moderator. This person would either not be able to play (due to access to information normally hidden from other players) or the website would have to be automated enough to allow moderation without access to other players' hands (which might not even be possible, and if it is, I'm honestly not going to put in the work to figure it out).

In short, I can't quite figure out how a PBEM game would logistically handle interrupt opportunities. I think the best option (not requiring a non-playing moderator--who wants to be that?) would be to mail out the game state after every action, thus giving people an opportunity to play interrupts. But then, how do you know if an interrupt is going to be played or not? How long do you wait? If player B performs an action, how much time do you allow players D&E to perform interrupts before letting C take the next action? I think you just have to play, and if someone says "Oh wait, I'm buying one of those wood you just took from the board" (I don't remember which card that is), everyone just has to understand that such an interrupt is going to be accepted, even if someone else has taken a subsequent action. Between friends, it probably wouldn't be a problem.

Anyone have a better solution?
Last edited on 2008-09-22 21:11:04 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Branko K.
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Agreed. And what about when someone wants to rearrange the animals, or slaughter some, which you can effectively do whenever you want?

In fact, "I" and "K" deck effectively make PBEM a nightmare. However, a family game with some carefully laid out additional rules (you can only move animals at your own turn, harvest goes through all the 7 phases in orderly fashion etc.) perhaps could work. But I still think it would be more trouble than it's worth.
Uwe Rosenberg
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Game Designer
I'm very interested in the (german translation of the :blush:) pbm-rules. I played pbm since 1984. My first game was "United". Who is wondering about this.
Don Poletti
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baba44713 wrote:
I don't think this would work as a PBEM. Think about it, three players with four family members each would need 12 e-mails just to finish one round. I think that would be a bit excessive, unless you are playing interactively - but in that case a multiplayer flash game would be much more appropriate then PBEM.


What if you listed all actions in order of peference. So if you have 3 family members you could email multiple actions in the order you like them. Not perfect, you can't react to someone else mid turn and you might get to where are you choices are blocked but it could considerable speed up the game.
Chris Deotte
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Here's a website that let's you play Agricola online against other people.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/345804

Chris