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Special Newbie


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San Juan » Forums » Reviews
What do a Newbie think about San Juan?
Score (if you like abstract games): 8;
(if you do not like abstract games): 6


I have not played Puerto Rico before, and thus cannot compare San Juan with it. I think that San Juan is quite an interesting game. Basically, in each round every players in the table takes roles of being a producer of goods, seller of goods, builder (build with the money you earned by selling goods)...

Ultimately, I found that this game is all about making combos. At the begining of the game, you may build a production building that gives you money later in the game, and then you can use the money to build other types of buildings that give you more points/scores. (Points/scores are important because the players with most point win the game.) Alternatively, another player may choose to build buildings that help lower the future cost of constructions... Different cards give you different power, and what you build earlier can give you advantages later when you build (e.g., lower cost, more points when combined with earlier buildings). That is why I set ultimately this game is about making combos.

Although I find the game interesting, I find the theme of the game abstract. While I am playing San Juan, I do not feel like I am really building anything. Instead, I just feel like making combos, and combos make more combos, and more combos, ultimately translating to higher scores at the end of games. In addition, I do not like the fact that you do not really know how well you are doing, compared to other players, during the game. That is, I find the in-game feedback of my performance is rather weak in this game. You only know how well you do at the end of the game when you count points/scores.

Don't get me wrong: San Juan is a good game. I am just not very used to the abstractness of the game. I am looking for a game that makes me feel:
(1) I have a relative sense how well I do compared to other players during the game,
(2) less abstract,
(3) I feel that I have accomplished something (e.g., by building a city or rail network) at the end of the game.

"Ticket to ride" is able to give me this satisfaction. At the end of each game, I feel like "Wow! I have made such a long railroad across America!" I have also tried Carcasonne but do not get the same feeling of Ticket to ride. (Carcasonne is still abstract to me: I do not know why I have to place maaple in the board to score points.) However, I start to get sick of Ticket to ride because I have played it too many times. I wonder if any of you know anygame that gives me such a satisfaction (the three points listed above)?

Thanks in advanced.
Ⓦ Ⓢhubert
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Portland
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Wow, to me TTR is more abstract than San Juan. I think maybe you like to see something you have built at the end? That is one of the many fun things about TTR, your progress and accomplishments are so visible right there on the board.
Patrick Carroll
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Special wrote:
"Ticket to ride" is able to give me this satisfaction. At the end of each game, I feel like "Wow! I have made such a long railroad across America!" I have also tried Carcasonne but do not get the same feeling of Ticket to ride. . . . However, I start to get sick of Ticket to ride because I have played it too many times. I wonder if any of you know anygame that gives me such a satisfaction (the three points listed above)?


Well, there are other train games (see the Categories listing, and look for "Trains"). Many of them are much more detailed than Ticket to Ride.

It sounds like you may like board games better than card games. In a board game, you get to see things laid out on the board; spaces are being filled or emptied. In a card game, things are represented by pictures or words; there are no spaces to empty or fill.

Board games with maps are especially appealing to some people. You're not only filling spaces or moving your pieces through spaces, but you can also imagine that it represents movement across a whole continent.

Wargames are realistic, not abstract; and they have maps. You might like those.

--Patrick
Peter Mumford
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Special wrote:
Although I find the game interesting, I find the theme of the game abstract. While I am playing San Juan, I do not feel like I am really building anything. Instead, I just feel like making combos, and combos make more combos, and more combos, ultimately translating to higher scores at the end of games...

...I am looking for a game that makes me feel:
(1) I have a relative sense how well I do compared to other players during the game,
(2) less abstract,
(3) I feel that I have accomplished something (e.g., by building a city or rail network) at the end of the game.

Most eurogames are abstract in feel. San Juan, I think, is a pretty good card game, with a lot of subtleties that come out with repeated play, and lots and lots of valid strategies for winning, but yes, I agree that it is abstract. It does not really simulate an economy (although it does have a wonderful commodity market mechanic).

You might like Amun-Re, which has some excellent points:
a) Money is tight. It is that feeling of shortage which gives a game it's realism.
b) You build pyramids. I think you might like this part.
c) It is more interactive, in the sense that it has an auction phase (which is excruciatingly hard to evaluate).
You might have a sense of being in a strong position near the end of the game, but it is usually hard to know for sure until the scoring.

The train games that are less abstract are also far more complex and take a lot longer to play. It is a trade-off. The 18xx games are realistic, because you have to try to operate your companies as well as drive up the value per share, but they take a long time to play. A game like Chicago Express is simpler and shorter (it's a very good game), but it leaves out a lot of stuff that makes the 18xx games realistic.
Last edited on 2008-10-04 13:14:35 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Special Newbie


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Thanks so much for your suggestions. I think I'll try Amun-Re, because it is a card game by Reiner Knizia. I have always liked his game, which is simply to learn but interesting to play, although the themes of his games are quite abstract. I have loved King's Gate, Lost Cities and Battleline. I personally think that Battleline is a masterpiece. I do not know what the reason is. I never feel San Juan is hard to play. However, I never have the same "click" with it compared to other games I mentioned above. In addition, I am not a gamer, and neither are my friends. Actually, I have never played San Juan with them, because it takes quite some time to remember the different characteristics of buildings... I do not think they'll have the patience for that. I have only played it with computer, although I actually owned the real game.

I agree with you about the multi-path strategies in San Juan.




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