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Ender Wiggins
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Can you play Mare Nostrum with two players? How about three? Or four, or five, or six? What is the best number to have? And in the case where you are lacking the full number of players, which civilizations should be neutral? Does this change if you own the expansion? If you're asking questions like these, this review is for you. Be assured that you're not the first to ask questions like this, because in the forums for the base game and the expansion there are probably well over twenty threads with questions like these! I know, because I researched and read them all! Now you can learn enough about the rules and game-play of Mare Nostrum from other reviews, but since you want to know about how it plays with different numbers of players, that's what this review is about.

After playing this game and discussing it with a fellow gamer, I've scoured these forum posts, along with the personal comments and reviews, and carefully organized some key quotations to bring you the important things you need to know and what other people think about Mare Nostrum and how it plays with different numbers of players. Perhaps you could call this a kind of "consensus of opinion" - biased of course, because I'm the one who gets to pick the quotes to include. Nevertheless, here you have it, an at-a-glance overview of some of the majority opinions that you need to know about this aspect of the game.

.


1. Mare Nostrum with one player? ... Remarkably unexpected!

You're kidding right? This is a multi-player game! But if you are one of those solitaire type gamers and are determined to play on your own, be my guest! Just adopt as many multiple personalities as you want, so by all means read on and decide whether you want to play with two, three, four, five or six personalities!

2. Mare Nostrum with two players? ... Completely unsuitable!

"The game is a classic multi-player wargame for 5 or 6 and excels as such. It is not a 2-player game."
"The trade phase wouldn't make any sense with 2 players as, in this phase, players exchange cards among them to make sets; I don't see it working with 2 players."
"If you are looking for a 2-player game, there are much better choices out there."
"I have played with two people. Each of us selected two countries at random and played like "normal" from there. It certainly changed the game in several ways. First, no one every bothered to attack himself. Second, the trading phase was also changed significantly. (Although the three player game has a similar/different flaw). That being said, we played to the end and I did enjoy the game. Trying to manipulate the trading, was quite different from the "normal game" but still interesting. While there surely was not as many wars, there still were
enough to make it interesting from this vantage point also. I would suggest though, changing the victory conditions to 6 combined wonders/heroes."
"You could always give Ubiratã Oliveira's Diumvirate a shot. You can play the game that way, even have quite some fun doing it, but it's not the way the game is meant to be played, in addition to being a different experience from the Real Thing."
"Since it is a game where a lot of diplomacy occurs (or should be occurring), it would be pointless as a 2-player game, IMHO.
"Mare Nostrum is not suitable for a 2-player game. It is as simple as that. Keep looking."

Consensus: Don't bother with two. Really!

3. Mare Nostrum with three players? ... Hopelessly unbalanced!

"I wouldn't bother playing with only three people."
"I don't think this is a good game with 3, even with the Mythology expansion. The more players the better really."
"If you have five or six, I would play this, but if you only have three or four, I would suggest sticking with Shogun."
"I have never played with 3, but I suspect that there is a lot less fighting and tension with that number as everyone can quietly grow and collect before fighting to grab resources becomes a necessity."
"For the most balanced play, with 3 players, remove Rome and Egypt."
"We have just tried a 3-players game, with Babylon, Carthage, and Atlantis. Nice game, well fought but I strongly suggest against using such a combination of civilizations. Also I would not suggest a 3-players Atlantis/Egypt/Greece."
"With only 3 players, you could always try the Triumvirate scenario (available as a file on BGG), created by Serge Laget."
"Unfortunately, three isn't that good. I've heard that the Triumvirate scenario leads to a much better game."
"Three players is only good to teach the game, but not much else as economic warfare is impossible to wage. Then again, the Triumvirate 3-player scenario does make for an interesting game, although it's not the same as the base game since players are now fighting off invading barbarians."
"With three players this game is almost hopelessly unbalanced."
"Does not seem to be a very good 3-player game, try with at least four, preferably five."
"With 3 I wouldn't play Mare Nostrum, especially with new players to the game (with veterans I might try for two nations a player, but that would be too confusing for a first game!)"
"With 3 players... try a different game."

Consensus: You can try it with three, and perhaps even try the three player Triumvirate scenario, but don't buy Mare Nostrum if you are expecting to play only with three players. (If you absolutely must play with three, the rules recommend playing with a neutral Rome and Egypt.)

4. Mare Nostrum with four players? ... Generally good! Despite imbalance, this is the bare minimum

"Very good game. Needs at least 4 players though."
"Really the game really shines with 4+ players."
"Needs at least 4 players and ideally 5."
"With 4 and especially with 5 a real gem. "
"A 4-player game is acceptable, but not as entertaining."
"Play suffers when not with the maximum amount of players: some cultures will expand more easily, others can lay low and quietly collect the victory cards. You need that tension on all the sides. On the other hand, with 4 players it is still without doubt a highly enjoyable and at times quite confrontational game which will keep you busy for quite some time."
"Best civ. building game. Imbalance issues with 3-4 players though."
"Without expansion you must only play with 5 players--The game board is not balanced with 4."
"For the most balanced play, with 4 players, remove Babylon."
"In 4-player, we play with Rome, Egypt, Greece, and Carthage. From what I've seen, Carthage and Greece are basically playing to decide who wins between Egypt and Rome."
"I've played with 4 exclusively, and that is pretty good, but you need someone to keep Egypt in check on the 'eastern front' so to speak. I would definitely recommend using the modifications of the heroes Caesar, Hannibal and Perikles when playing with 4. I am really eager to try out the game with 5, but with 4 the game is in my humble opinion already
above average."
"With four players the game is still good, but definitely not as good as it is with 5. Economic warfare is still possible, but more difficult to do as players tend to form two alliances."
"I've never played it with 3, but I have played it with 4 and I must say I didn't like it one bit. No matter which empire you exclude, its two neighbors will have a serious advantage over the other two players. It seems to me that the best 4-player scenario would be to play with the Mythology expansion and exclude Atlantis and Babylon; that way, each player will have an inactive neighbor and none of the four offices will need to be shuffled around."
"With 4 players, which civs should I use for best balance? Any four that result in each player having an inactive neighbor. It's easiest to eliminate Atlantis and Babylon. Eliminating Babylon and Greece, on the other hand, would be grossly unfair to Atlantis and Carthage."
"Removing Babylon and Atlantis is the best way to handle 4 players."
"With 4 players and the expansion map, drop Babylon and Atlantis, all remaining players are strengthened."
"With 4 players I would play without Atlantis and Babylon (be sure to use the expansion rules version of neutral setup)."
"It is not necessary to have 6 players. If you have 4 players, make Atlantis and Babylon neutral nations. If you have 5, simply omit the new map and Atlantis."
"With four, I recommend not using Atlantis or Babylon, but keeping the expansion board. For four people without the expansion, I'd leave out either Rome or Greece."
"The base game can be plenty of fun without the expansion. If you only have four players, I would recommend leaving Greece unmanned and taking away Rome's fortress discount."
"We played our second game with 4 players on the 6 player map. Not recommended."
"Don't use the expanded board with only four players."
"Still recommendable, but I'd agree that there are better games for four."

Consensus: It's not as good as with five or six players, but Mare Nostrum can still be worth playing with only four players. Best results seem to be obtained when using the expansion board with a neutral Babylon and Atlantis, but there are those who prefer the base game map with a neutral Babylon (or perhaps Greece or Rome).
Recommended, in order of preference:
1. Use expansion map, and a neutral Babylon & Atlantis
2. Without expansion map, and a neutral Babylon (or Greece or Rome?)

5. Mare Nostrum with five players? ... Absolutely best! Very balanced, as good as six players with the expansion

"It really needs five players."
"I have played it with 3, 4 and 5 players, and can assure you that 5 is the best."
"Only downside is the near-necessity of a full complement of 5 or 6 players."
"Great game with 5 players. Any less it is still good, but if you have the right position you can really exploit your advantages."
"Needs five players to be equal for all. "
"Definitely best with 5 players, with some of the rule modifications from the expansion for play balance. "
"I'm thinking it's a 5 or 6 player game, and with 5 players don't use the Atlantis map."
"Mare Nostrum is best played with 5 players, as the tension is at its maximum and each player has two neighbors to worry about. Most importantly, it is possible to conduct a form of economic warfare by having three (or four) players trade amongst themselves, thus leaving out two (or one) players; this forces them to take their cards back."
"The game is best played by 5-players, as the play balance is more obvious, which each card giving the player a subtle edge. More importantly, Economic Warfare (trading amongst three players only) can be directed at two opponents (4-player games only allow for one, while 3-player games don't allow this at all)."
"When playing with 5 players we usually dismiss the second board. This keeps the game tight."
"I don't think that you need the extra board for 3-5 player games."
"It is not necessary to have 6 players. If you have 5, simply omit the new map and Atlantis."
"What is even cooler is that it's not mandatory to have six players to play with Atlantis. There are rules to setup neutral powers. We regularly play with five players, and those rules work fine (although the game is probably even better with six people)."
"We played recently with 5 and Babylon set up as dummy nation. It certainly worked and we all had a blast, but everyone agreed that it would have played better with all 6."
"When playing the game with 5 players, we played with the expansion map. I've read a lot that Babylon should be the nation to be set up as neutral in a 5 player game, and after playing 3 games I think I really agree with this. But the other option is to simply not use the expansion map and keep the original 5 nations. I think we like the extra space the expansion map provides though."
"For five players, I think a neutral Babylon is best, followed by a neutral Atlantis: in both cases keeping the expansion board. The extra board segment gives Rome and Carthage a bit more space which is particularly important for Rome as Greece is much more able to defend itself in the expansion version. Plus the extra board segment has the 13th resource on it."
"With five players and the expansion map, drop Babylon. This strengthens Egypt and Greece, but it will take lots of investment for either to develop Asia, and the other players can compensate."

Consensus: This (along with a six player game using the expansion board) is absolutely the best way to play Mare Nostrum!
Recommended, in order of preference:
1. Without expansion map, and no neutral civilization
2. With expansion map, and a neutral Babylon

6. Mare Nostrum with six players? ... Absolutely best! Very balanced, as good as five players without the expansion

"Game shines with a full complement of 6 players."
"The addition of a few new components such as myth units, gods, and a 6th player (Atlantis) add to the game tremendously, making this one of the best expansions ever published."
"There are few more enjoyable gaming experiences than 6 player Mare Nostrum + Mythology!"
"The Atlantean civilization is also a very cool addition. And the Kraken work wonderfully, making possible for Atlas to attack but without being overpowered. It's the perfect addition to a very good game."
"With six players there is a shortage of caravans and cities, which causes a good amount of tension and exciting game play."
"It takes time, but with 6 using the expansion, it really shines."

Consensus: This (along with a five player game without using the expansion board) is absolutely the best way to play Mare Nostrum!
Recommended:
1. With expansion map, and no neutral civilizations

7. The bottom line: what you need to know.

To be best enjoyed, an absolute minimum of four players is needed, but the game really shines with a full complement of five players, and (with the expansion) six players.



Ender's Recommendations:

starstarstar with six players: play with the expansion
starstarstar with five players: play without the expansion (inferior alternative: with the expansion and a neutral Babylon)
starstarnostar with four players: play with the expansion and a neutral Babylon and Atlantis (inferior alternative: without the expansion and a neutral Babylon, or Greece/Rome)
starnostarnostar with three players: don't bother
nostarnostarnostar with two players: really don't bother
nostarnostarnostar with one player: what are you thinking?

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The complete list of Ender's "What you need to know and what people think about..." reviews:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/37595
Last edited on 2008-12-26 13:36:18 CST (Total Number of Edits: 2)
Jeff Brown
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050708
So if you were to play with five players does that mean that you'd play without the expansion board but with all of the other expansion things?
Tim Seitz
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060708
While I would't necessarily call this a review, it is definitely awesome information to have if I were considering breaking this out of shrink wrap.
Ender Wiggins
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jeff brown wrote:
So if you were to play with five players does that mean that you'd play without the expansion board but with all of the other expansion things?

Good question Jeff. There are two different aspects of the expansion to consider (aside from the expansion board and Atlantis player):

1. Rule changes: Certainly I'd play with most of the rule tweaks implemented by the expansion, such as the modifications to Caesar, Hannibal and Pericles, and the Greek naval blockade. These are easy enough to incorporate, and nicely fix the imbalance of the original game. For full details, see here:
A Definitive Guide to the Official and Essential Game-Balancing Rule Modifications

2. Additional elements: As for using the mythological creatures and gods when playing without the expansion board, I'm personally inclined to give them a miss. These would require using a 45 point setup instead of a 36 points setup, as discussed here, and could result in Heroes/Wonders being purchased too quickly. I myself don't play with the gods even with the expansion board, because I don't quite feel comfortable playing with Canaanite gods like Baal on my side! But the nice thing about the additional elements offered by the expansion (new hero & wonder cards, mythological creatures, gods) is that for the most part you can implement whichever elements you like, so it's quite flexible.

Assuming the essential tweaked rules from the expansion in all cases, is a five player game best with the original base map (my preference), or with the expansion map (and neutral Babylon) and the creatures/gods of the expansion? Or with the original base map and the creatures/gods of the expansion? If other players have thoughts or experiences with this, I'd love to hear from you!
Jason Wiebe
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Well put. This game needs 5 players. I love this game but it HAS to have 5 in order to work properly.
Ender Wiggins
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For further reading and information, also see my review of the expansion:

What you need to know and what people think about the Mare Nostrum expansion
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/343748
Bill Heaton
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Nice work, keeping this great game in the public (gamer's) eye. With tweaks or the expansion it is awesome.
 
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