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Teacher Fletcher
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Sorry if this has been covered, but I can't seem to understand:

What EXACTLY will be different, rules-wise, about this game vs. Age of Steam?

Also:

Can one use these components with the many AoS expansion maps?
Wes Nott
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Rules-wise I don't think we know exactly how the game is different yet.

I know the game has undergone several revisions in rules during playtesting based on comments i've read on BGG.

Teacher Fletcher
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I guess my main question is, components-wise, will this be compatible with existing expansions? And will there be anything, components-wise, to prevent one from playing by the original AoS rules, if the revised rules prove to be personally undesirable?


This is coming from the perspective of someone who wishes he had bought AoS when it was in print!
♪ Isaac Bickerstaff ♫
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Bathtub Hoax wrote:
I guess my main question is, components-wise, will this be compatible with existing expansions? And will there be anything, components-wise, to prevent one from playing by the original AoS rules, if the revised rules prove to be personally undesirable?


From everything I've read here, the designer and publisher are working very hard to make sure that the game is backward-compatible with the original game.
Teacher Fletcher
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That's a relief!

But still no announcement on a release date, right?
Mik Svellov
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Bathtub Hoax wrote:

But still no announcement on a release date, right?

Even if there was, you would have to take it with a pinch of salt - it being a Mayfair game and all...
Last edited on 2008-10-17 11:06:05 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Teacher Fletcher
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I guess if I've waited this long, a bit more won't hurt.
Alex Yeager
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Steam » Forums » General
Re: What exactly will be different about this?
You'll understand the pitfalls of "exactly", of course, especially if you're suffering through the current bout of US campaigning. Handwave a bit, and you're being soft on the details; spell it out specifically, and you're starring in an attack ad by the other side the next day. That said, here's some basics.

- We're still looking at a base game and an advanced game. The base game is designed to be more forgiving and quicker than existing versions; the advanced game will ramp things back up. Both will feel closer to earlier AoS editions than, say, Railroad Tycoon.

I'll talk specifically about the base game from here, as we're still working on the advanced game. That shouldn't shock anyone; working on an advanced game based on the base game means that one has to be ready before the other. The base game (barring one small tweak being discussed) will be in Martin's hands in Essen, along with the very pretty Ruhr map I have open in the other window on my computer...

- You will have two tracks: VP and income. Points earned by deliveries must be assigned to one or the other.
- No more goods table: at the beginning of the game, groups of goods are placed on the board, with Urbanization and City Growth allowing selection from any of the remaining groups of goods.
- Other than an optional auction for first turn order, turn order for the next turn is assigned by the action you take this turn. (I've seen some discussion about this here in the abstract; suffice it to say that a lot of work has gone into managing the game-long values of actions and constructing a hierarchy that works from turn 1 to the end. I'm very happy with the mechanic.)
- Income will work similarly to shares, but players reduce income and take cash (think "issue shares") as money is needed.

Those are the major differences. They trim about an hour off the game, tightening turns and allowing more predictability within turns for long-term planning (as you're able to see somewhat where in the selection order you'll lie for the next turn.) The advanced game will be designed to raise the stakes both in fixed costs and long-term planning (remember that "as money is needed" stuff above? Yeah, not so much here.).

Compatibility: Our goal from day one has been to keep the tile size the same as previous editions, and have maps be compatible with our components and rules. Obviously, there are a lot of third-party expansions with different rules, and some maps will not benefit from having those rules stripped out wholesale. But, there is nothing preventing using a map from an earlier edition with this new ruleset. Using our maps backwards will be a bit trickier (note no goods table, so no labeling of cities, and the number of cities on a map are no longer tied to the table, so our New York map has 10 cities on it, and the Ruhr map has 13), but not insurmountable with some creativity by the good folks here. I can assure you that our playtesting has used a wide variety of maps beyond the two that we're planning to include in our game.

Working with Martin, we are developing an edition that is going to bring more players to the game, because we believe that Martin has a game that a lot more players should have access to. Many of us (myself included) can now think back fondly to our first game or two where we went bankrupt. Simply put, there's another level of players that will not play this game again based on that experience alone, and that group is much larger than the existing base of players. But, if we can give them a game that brings them to the system, gives them experience to successfully play an "easier" version, then give them an option to step up to a harder experience, we think we can give the current players many more folks to play against. And, if players choose to simply play the new base game exclusively, hardcore players will not find it offensive to sit at a table with them and play the base game.

We'll have these components with us in Essen next week, along with the new box (and name...)! Note that I leave for Essen very shortly, so I may not react to this thread again (at least until I get back). Hopefully, there will be some more news from Essen from Martin and Mayfair!

Alex Yeager
Mayfair Games
Richard Dewsbery
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What Alex said.

As far as I understand it, Mayfair and Martin are of the same mind on this - that the "base" game will be easier to pick up than AoS, more forgiving towards new and casual players, shorter, slightly simpler, and much prettier. Weight-wise, think Railroad Tycoon only without the HUGE board or the daft bits (like the cards).

But Mayfair and Martin also want there to be an "advanced" version, that plays just like the original AoS only with improvements (so no silly goods table or dice). I don't know whether the old expansion maps will be 100% compatible with either the basic rules (some should be, no promises though) or the advanced rules (most should be, but third-party stuff might need some extra tweaking, or might not work at all).

Personally I've had no desire to play AoS since playing the new game, though I was never much of a "hardcore" AoS player. If I was a hardcore AoS player, I'd be interested in how the advanced rules work, but would probably pick up a copy of the new game just for the upgraded components.

Paul Hoffmann
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This sounds great! I'm excited.
Teacher Fletcher
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Thanks, Alex, for such a detailed and informative missive. Can a US release be hot on the heels of Essen?
Alex Yeager
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"Hot on the heels" would imply 2008, so that's a no. We are meeting with our European partners in Essen to coordinate our international release of the game, so I would expect us to firm up our schedule shortly after the fair.

Alex Yeager
Mayfair Games
Teacher Fletcher
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Thanks! We'll keep our eyes peeled.
Mik Svellov
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Thanks for the input, Alex!
I will happily play the original AoS for years to come, but can understand why so many of my friends prefer not to - so having a easier version will be much welcome.

Looking forward to playing the new version next week!
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AlexYeager wrote:
Working with Martin, we are developing an edition that is going to bring more players to the game, because we believe that Martin has a game that a lot more players should have access to. Many of us (myself included) can now think back fondly to our first game or two where we went bankrupt. Simply put, there's another level of players that will not play this game again based on that experience alone, and that group is much larger than the existing base of players. But, if we can give them a game that brings them to the system, gives them experience to successfully play an "easier" version, then give them an option to step up to a harder experience, we think we can give the current players many more folks to play against. And, if players choose to simply play the new base game exclusively, hardcore players will not find it offensive to sit at a table with them and play the base game.

Alex Yeager
Mayfair Games

I think this is great that you're hoping to make the game more accessible and available to more players. I hope this translates to an MSRP of $30-$40, because, frankly, the complexity of the original Age of Steam isn't what kept it from becoming a staple in every gamer's collection, it was the price (and now, the limited accessibility).
Michael Leuchtenburg
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An MSRP of $30 will barely get you a board and a few cards. I'm expecting more in the $50-70 range. $60 seems to be the sweet spot for big box games, these days, with only a few hitting $70.
tim
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Well since its coming from Mayfair I suspect the bits will be a bit better than the previous version. :cool:
M C
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Quote:
We'll have these components with us in Essen next week, along with the new box (and name...)!


Did anyone see the new name at Essen?
Garry Clarke
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Please let the trains be made of wood and not plastic.
Ingo Griebsch
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Garry wrote:
Please let the trains be made of wood and not plastic.


+1
Richard Dewsbery
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craniac wrote:
Quote:
We'll have these components with us in Essen next week, along with the new box (and name...)!


Did anyone see the new name at Essen?


Yes.
Michael Longdin
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RDewsbery wrote:
Yes.


I can think of better names for a game
Malcolm
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100%Blade wrote:
RDewsbery wrote:
Yes.


I can think of better names for a game


i dunno, its pretty positive... gives a sense of something good...

Quote:
you wanna play 'yes'?...

bring it on mate....


Quote:
you wanna play 'fuck off and die'?


erm, actually.... yer - it wounds pretty damn cool


Richard Dewsbery
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Hey, I answered the question, didn't I?
Tim Harrison
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RDewsbery wrote:
Hey, I answered the question, didn't I?


Could you be so kind as to tell us the new name for the game? :p
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