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I live just north of Atlanta, Georgia. I would have expected my copy to be one of the first shipped. We are told the games are in Atlanta. So where are they? If valley games gave me the address, I could have picked my game up faster than this. I'm assuming nothing has shipped at this point. So what's the hold up now? Problems collating the games with titan minis? Don't make me create another poll! 
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They found out if they have 1000 games of Titan in their legion Atlanta is a recruiting terrain for warbears.
Yes. A real warbear.
Next turn they will split the legion up and move them out one by one.
Note: Valley Games does not need to follow stacking limits
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BagpipeDan wrote: They found out if they have 1000 games of Titan in their legion Atlanta is a recruiting terrain for warbears.
Yes. A real warbear.
Next turn they will split the legion up and move them out one by one.
Note: Valley Games does not need to follow stacking limits You'd think since they printed the game they'd do better than Warbears, though. I mean, come on... Warbears?
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Probably the russian invasion of Georgia finally reached Atlanta, although i dont watch news and am not sure.
Last edited on 2008-11-07 00:29:15 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
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storvik wrote: Logical. Probably the russian invasion of Georgia finally reached Atlanta. The warbear division was substantially slower than the tanks. If they last until round 4 they can get another warbear, but that might delay shipping even more
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I don't understand why they managed to get copies in SPIEL 08 and not pre-orders _with_ preorder bonus figures for sale.
I paid $50 + $36 for shipping (poor Asians). And I paid that in April.
For that price I might have as well asked a friend to bring it back for me.
If they listed a price tag for the figures I would have waited. I will be able to get it in Germany at around $45 EUR + negligible shipping.
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Smilinbrax wrote: I live just north of Atlanta, Georgia. I would have expected my copy to be one of the first shipped. We are told the games are in Atlanta. So where are they? If valley games gave me the address, I could have picked my game up faster than this. I'm assuming nothing has shipped at this point. So what's the hold up now? Problems collating the games with titan minis? Don't make me create another poll! Okay Jason you are missing the real funny part though.You live just north of the city where the titan games might be located yet it could be days/weeks before you get your game.But if you would have flown to germany(half way around the world almost) for essen at the end of the october you could have picked your game up there.Now that is really funny!
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Yeah, I've been tempted to email them and ask if I could just pick it up already!
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I emailed Eagle Games and here is the response I got yesterday :
"Hi Marty,
The games have arrived at the Valley freight fowarder in Georgia, and the games are being sent to us here in Chicago. I expect that they should be here next week,
Keith "
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While I usually like their games and production values, Valley Games seems to be suffering from the old and proven problem that happens whenever someone is paid BEFORE they finish a job. It is twice as hard to be motivated to finish any job if you already have cash in hand. I mean come on...ship the damn things already! My only point: I suggest that if VG had to wait to get our money until we had games in hand, we would already have our games in our hands. P.S. Aren't you glad you pre-ordered? Not only do you get Titan minis, you also get your game after those at the conventions! Yea!   What a joke.
Last edited on 2008-11-07 09:15:43 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
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Reedo wrote: Valley Games seems to be suffering from the old and proven problem that happens whenever someone is paid BEFORE they finish a job. Never front the money.
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Reedo wrote: My only point: I suggest that if VG had to wait to get our money until we had games in hand, we would already have our games in our hands. While I absolutely take your point, I'm not totally sure this is true. My sense is that Valley just a) has no idea how long these things really take, or that things do routinely go wrong , and b) is pretty disorganized. I mean, I remember charge-to-ship delays that were routinely 6+ months for GMT back in the early '00s, and that was after they had been in business for over a decade. Titan is now in that sort of zone too, which, while certainly disappointing, is not completely surprising either. The problem with GMT's P500 is process is that game development is de-emphasized. People pay up front, so there is no real incentive to really turn the screws on the design to make an OK design really achieve its potential. So we get a lot of OK games that could have been better. At least as of yet, with doing mainly reprints, Valley isn't under that kind of bad disincentive. In their last customer email, Valley hinted that they were frustrated with how the pre-order process has worked (or not, as the case may be) and may be moving away from it entirely. I think this is a good sign. We'll see if they can actually do it, though, and resist taking customer cash up-front 
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Reedo wrote: P.S. Aren't you glad you pre-ordered? Not only do you get Titan minis, you also get your game after those at the conventions! Yea! What a joke. Yes, I am very glad I contributed to reprinting this amazing game and will be rewarded for it with discounted prices and free toys.
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cfarrell wrote: I mean, I remember charge-to-ship delays that were routinely 6+ months for GMT back in the early '00s, and that was after they had been in business for over a decade. Doesn't that support, rather than counter, his point? If GMT wasn't getting the money until they actually shipped the games, I don't think you would have seen those sorts of delays from them, either.
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cfarrell wrote: Reedo wrote: My only point: I suggest that if VG had to wait to get our money until we had games in hand, we would already have our games in our hands. While I absolutely take your point, I'm not totally sure this is true. My sense is that Valley just a) has no idea how long these things really take, or that things do routinely go wrong , and b) is pretty disorganized. I mean, I remember charge-to-ship delays that were routinely 6+ months for GMT back in the early '00s, and that was after they had been in business for over a decade. Titan is now in that sort of zone too, which, while certainly disappointing, is not completely surprising either. The problem with GMT's P500 is process is that game development is de-emphasized. People pay up front, so there is no real incentive to really turn the screws on the design to make an OK design really achieve its potential. So we get a lot of OK games that could have been better. At least as of yet, with doing mainly reprints, Valley isn't under that kind of bad disincentive. In their last customer email, Valley hinted that they were frustrated with how the pre-order process has worked (or not, as the case may be) and may be moving away from it entirely. I think this is a good sign. We'll see if they can actually do it, though, and resist taking customer cash up-front ok...I do admit that I may have veen overstating or simplifying things a tad, but still...come on, if you can have the games ready for those at Essen, then you can have them ready for those in The States (and elsewhere), that is, unless you are more interested in pleasing those at Essen instead of those who paid to make the reprint possible.
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Reedo wrote: ok...I do admit that I may have veen overstating or simplifying things a tad, but still...come on, if you can have the games ready for those at Essen, then you can have them ready for those in The States (and elsewhere), that is, unless you are more interested in pleasing those at Essen instead of those who paid to make the reprint possible. I wouldn't be so sure: logistically it's easier to get a couple (50 or so) games to Essen, than to send all of the preordered games (700+?) I think that VG has rather a communication problem with his costumers: it's not the waiting, it's the waiting with no idea what's going on that upsets some people.
Last edited on 2008-11-07 16:23:09 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
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cfarrell wrote: The problem with GMT's P500 is process is that game development is de-emphasized. People pay up front, so there is no real incentive to really turn the screws on the design to make an OK design really achieve its potential. So we get a lot of OK games that could have been better. I think you are wrong here Chris. GMT does not charge your credit card until the game is ready to go to print. All the design and development work has been completed at that point. Also, I disagree with your assessment of GMT designs I think that generally they are quite good and achieve their potential. Now if you want to talk Columbia Games, there I would agree with the observation that the games are way underdeveloped. If that is due to their P500 system, I don't know. But what I do know is their last several games have been laughable  and they are now off my list of trusted game publishers. Anyway, I want my Titan before Thanksgiving! 
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Sancherib wrote: it's the weaiting with no idea what'S going on that upsets some people. This is exactly what annoys me. They send out a statement that the games will go out at a certain time, then wait until long after that time has passed to then give an update. I would think they would know ahead of time that they cant meet a previously stated date and could at least let us know. I don't think I would be nearly as upset with all of this if I was just told honestly what was going on. I do feel that preordering the game does give us that right. I feel that I invested in this project for them and should in turn be treated as an investor.
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chrisdem wrote: Sancherib wrote: it's the weaiting with no idea what'S going on that upsets some people. This is exactly what annoys me. They send out a statement that the games will go out at a certain time, then wait until long after that time has passed to then give an update. I would think they would know ahead of time that they cant meet a previously stated date and could at least let us know. I don't think I would be nearly as upset with all of this if I was just told honestly what was going on. I do feel that preordering the game does give us that right. I feel that I invested in this project for them and should in turn be treated as an investor. I agree wholeheartedly. Even if it went something like this: Dear customers, fans, and OCD-sufferers, unfortunately we must announce a brief delay, since, although we were able to get the games through customs and all that, the truck got a flat somewhere in Kentucky, and this, of course, after it mistakenly over-shot Georgia due to a radical mispronunciation of said state. We are working round-the-clock to solve this matter, including remedies such as self-flagellation.
We remain respectfully yours, Valley Games, et al.
PS, the Titan figures have been "rearranged" during overseas shipment so that the former posture has been altered. In other words, they're all broken. however, we'd like to extend the offer to sell you a replacement set, which will also count toward two free raffle tickets for the chance to go through our next pre-order experience.
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Maybe it is time to bring production back to this continent.
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Just wanted to add some clarification here: Titan shipments to Germany and the USA both left our factory at the same time. They just happened to make landfall in Germany first, hence their appearance at our show there.
Some folks paid $2000 to attend Essen and pick up their preordered game, which we were okay with. Some chose not to attend Essen, and we're looking forward to getting their game that they helped to have produced out to them. While it's not entirely "fair" to have some able to acquire Titan before our preorder customers, we do try our best to make everything jive between our preorder program and shows. We do this by offering a substantial discount and a preorder bonus, as well as our sincere gratitude for helping such a massive project become reality.
We do not have an incentive to move slowly. Preorders make up 10% or less of our total sales, and so it would make little sense to want to sit on the remaining 90% of our stock when we could have it to market sooner. We DO have an incentive to deliver a quality product at a fair price, and we're doing our best to accomplish that.
I expect that our North American customers will begin to see Titan and other games on their doorsteps in a matter of days.
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martimer wrote: Maybe it is time to bring production back to this continent. Believe me, if it was at all possible, we'd be first in line. I don't think we could justify the $149 price tag for Titan that would have been required if we produced the game in North America and up to the standards we wanted.
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Sancherib wrote: I think that VG has rather a communication problem with his costumers: it's not the waiting, it's the waiting with no idea what's going on that upsets some people. I think it's the waiting combined with the rolling two-week delay. Titan (and Supernova, and Municipium) always seem to be two weeks away. It's a recipe for irate customers. I don't know what the answer is. Clearly, there have been a few problems, and Valley has done the right thing in terms of fixing them - it sounds like problems were caught and components reprinted, and it's a good thing they did that instead of saying "close enough, we already have their money, just ship it". But it does mean more delays, and the monthly newsletter in which they say (it feels like) that the game will be out at the end of the month isn't helping ...
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Titan
» Forums » General
Re: And the new delay is because...
Well, I don't quite fathom the poison that suggests people who paid a lot of money to go to Essen are somehow "entitled" to get games earlier than other people who "chose not to go." Like it's a choice? I suspect the majority of the people at Essen paid a lot less than $2K to be there, simply because it's a fairly "local" event for them. I really doubt anyone paid $2K just to get their Titan. But that isn't the issue and the response just makes people angrier. One of the real questions is the (false) assumption that pre-ordered copies are always going to land on the buyer's doorstep before anyone else could possibly have the game. Does anyone remember VG making this promise? I don't. But a lot of people assume that's how it is supposed to work and then raise hell when it doesn't... not to mention the PR explosion when the Hannibal pre-orders had not arrived and Tanga offered the game (at lower than pre-order price). That was the doings of a distributor-- distributors normally get games quicker because whole boxes full can be sent to them, versus one-at-a-time labeling like the pre-order folks require. It appears this distributor needed bucks in a big hurry and got them, VG had nothing to do with it, but they were still the ones who got another black eye. Should VG do updates earlier and more often? No doubt. Should VG replies stay on topic and resist defensive/offensive remarks? I believe that would help. Should VG freeze bulk shipments or cons or any other business activity until the pre-orders have all been sent (with delivery confirmation)? IF they promised that pre-orders would "get the games first," then-- yes, they should do all of these things. A promise like that simply MUST be kept, regardless of the consequences, because customers lost by broken promises never come back, and the business says they will influence 10+ people to not do business with that company. But if they did NOT make a "pre-orders get it first" promise, then I would expect VG to do business as best keeps the tax man from padlocking the doors. Better communication? Mandatory. Revising promised delivery dates that can't be met? Early and as often as needed. Dealing with customers who get upset based on their own false assumptions-- Well, that can't be helped... but working on the two items above would diffuse an awful lot of the anger.
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Hey Kevin, Thanks for the update. You and VG did a great job with Hannibal, and I can't wait to get my hands on this product (especially since Torben showed me a copy at GenCon). I've wanted to play this game "live" since I first found out about it many years ago. Since then its stayed somewhere between my dreams and java. Cole
Last edited on 2008-11-07 19:23:56 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
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Posted Fri Nov 7, 2008 3:09 am
