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Lawrence Davis
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Axis & Allies Anniversary Edition » Forums » Reviews
AA50: What to expect from a AA grognard.
I've been playing AA for over 20 yrs now so I was excited to hear Larry Harris was coming out with another version of the classic game. Oh course a revision of the game had been done before, but with less than stellar results. But this time, it looks like Larry went out of his way to do the new revision right and correct many of the flaws AARevised didn't.

Right off the bat, for the hardcore AA player, the feel of everything is very good. This is definitely not your 80's Axis and Allies game. Larry has put to good use 20 yrs of playtesting that's for sure.

Here's my take:

Rulebook - The rulebook is nicely done with important examples placed where needed. I would have moved the unit information portion up closer from the end, but that's just a nicety that's really not needed. The hardcore player will be very familiar with the rules even though there are a few important changes that will certainly get more than a glance over.

The markers are made of a "laminated" cardboard that feel really good and should last several hundred game plays without wear.
The battleboard and National Production/Research Development Board are nicely done. It would have been even nicer to have what each Research technology actually did right there on the Development board like before (instead of having to look up each one in the rulebook), but it's something that one will get use to.

Industrial Production Certificates have apparently gotten more expensive to make, because that's my only guess for the cheaper feel I found with them. They are thinner, smaller, and one sided. I liked the feel of the old money better, but it all spends the same I guess. Funny thing is, is that this game has higher Industrial Production for every country than before, yet I think we got the same number of 1s,5s and 10s as before. I almost ran out of 1s twice already!

The units--Same as you will find in any AA title since the classic....nation specific units to represent the different uniforms and different equipment used by the different countries. I was very, very pleased to see the US fighter represented by those Navy fighters from the AAP and NOT those crappy P-38s! It just didn't make sense to me to use a P-38 to represent the thousands of mono-fuselage fighters the US used during the war, and besides, having a P-38s land on an aircraft carrier was just stupid.
Obviously that same line of thought was being applied to the Junkers Ju, and it too got replaced by something a little more "historical", and again, much to my liking.

The new mapboard still has me sitting on the fence however. It's bigger with more spaces and comes in three different pieces. And all of that turns out to be good and bad. I understand the worries about board warpage and folding, but I didn't feel comfortable just sliding 3 pieces together. I felt compelled to hold them together with clips, but even that didn't seem to keep the center of Europe from having a little "out of sync-ness" to it. Again, you can't make everybody happy so it's something you will either love or hate or love to hate and play on with.
And it must be my eyes, because it seems every new game mapboard nowadays come with national borders that are harder to make out. I can hardly tell where Italy ends and the Balkans begins.....again maybe it's just me.


New updates:

Research and Development got a nice overhaul. Investing in technology is never going to be a waste again. Buying one researcher marker will keep you rolling for the rest of the game....until you develop something. Investing more money will only speed up the development process. And there are now a half dozen more techs to go after and they all seem to have been well playtested. There is no reason for every country (except maybe Italy) not to try and develop something. If things are going right, two or three techs may be in the cards for some nations.

New Improved Nations:
Italy and China are introduced like never before. They are seperate countries now that will give and get their share of headaches. Italy especially, because it can really gum up the works for the Allies. Of course it is limited to just two major roles. Either it goes all out against Russia or all out against Africa....or maybe all out against both, but with limited funds it's going to be interesting that's for sure. I will say this, it's nothing like putting down that first Italian marker after it manages to take over some new territory. The Duce would be very proud.

China has made Japan's life alittle more difficult, but nothing that can't be dealt with. Japan is still the bully of Asia and the new China hasn't changed that. What China has done is become Japan's new whipping boy. Japan is now going to do to China what it has been doing to Russia for years. China is going to get alot of attention from Japan in the form of tanks and infantry. The great thing about this is that Japan still does not have to eliminate China. It just needs to keep the Chinese hordes at bay long enough to take out India or Australia or the Western US or all three. This is something that is very do-able.
China does get to start with one US fighter to represent the Flying Tiger squadron. The fighter can't leave China, but one could still potentially mix it up with American fighters flying in to support the Chinese cause, so it's nice if you can differentiate it from other US planes.
Now this is where one of those yucky P-38s from an earlier AA title will do wonders. I used one from my AA: Pacific game and it looks nice and works great. (And if that isn't good enough for you, according to Wiki, the P-38 was use extensively in the Pacific China-Burma-India theater of operations. So it should feel right at home in China.)

Naval units are cheaper so expect to see lots of ships and shipbuilding. Cruisers make their debut and everyone seems happy about them. Transports however got stripped of their guns and now actually need naval support. However, the new 0/0 transport has seemingly upset a delicate balance in the world of AA gamers and is something that looks like will be up for debate for the next 20 yrs of playing.
Were they wrong for stripping the lowly transport of it's killing power or have they just unlocked the secret to strategic naval warfare WWII style?? The jury is still out and likely will be for a while on this one. I personally like the idea ALOT because transports were never intended to sail alone, even a whole 6 pack fleet of them, but that's my "damn the torpedos....destroyers fullspeed ahead" opinion.

Speaking of torpedos, subs are now invisible to aircraft without an offending destroyer around to spot for them. This makes subs alittle stronger than before and coupled with their lower price, will surely make life hell for many ship boat captains....at least until well supported naval task forces show up.

Bombers are cheaper and there is already a "winner's strategy" for bombing Germany back into the stone age circulating around the net. Not sure if I buy that one, but it's something that will continue to be talked about until it's proven folly I guess.

And speaking of bombers, SBR got an overhaul that doesn't strip the player of IPCs....at least not right away. Damage to ICs now limit the number of units that ICs can produce. It's a neat way to limit the placement of new units in key territories or keep them off the mapboard and out of the fight all together. But of course this damage is repairable.....for a price.

Gameplay: There is a bonus money option which is designed to steer players toward a more historical gameplan and should be played in every game. It's nice to get more money than your nation produced each turn and besides, who in their right mind would turn down free money for doing what they were suppose to be doing anyway. Now, this is a change I really like and I'm very happy to see. Good job Larry on pushing the game more toward a historical feel than ever before.

The Victory Cities are back again and there are even more of them. However, this does lead me to the biggest and perhaps my only problem I have with the AA50 game. To win a standard game, 15 VCs is the goal. 15 VCs out of 18. That's crazy!!! Hell might as well ask the players to win out with 18 VCs!! Against average skill players that's not going to be at all easy and it's going to take quite a bit of time to do...and it's something that is really not needed. I'm thinking 13 VCs should be the standard. It will not only take less time, but may be even fairer to both sides.

And apparently to add insult to injury, Ottawa is now a VC city. I'm extremely surprised that after all the trouble Larry went through to make the game more historical, he allowed Ottawa to be a VC city. Are you kidding.....Canada has a VC city. That's just Dumb.
I'm pretty darn sure Hitler wouldn't have wasted his loaded transports of german supermen on invading Ottawa! Even with all of Europe and Asia under knobbed boot and heel, Ottawa wouldn't have made the top 10 list of most important cities to invade. Washington...... hell yes, but not Ottawa!! Ottawa being labeled a VC city along with the 15 VC standard, makes me wonder just how well playtested the VC portion of the game was.

Why not Cairo or Tehran? One of those two would at least give Italy a chance to grab a VC. And those are legit cities that the Axis have a shot at and it wouldn't have made 15 VCs seem like a joke.

Well, all that being said, I still think AA50 is a complete winner! It is a must for every Axis and Allies player out there. Even though the VC system is going to need a future houserule, the game's new design and new changes will be enough to keep everyone interested for years to come.
Last edited on 2009-01-01 08:03:49 CST (Total Number of Edits: 3)
Kevin Elliott
Canada

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Glad to hear you think Ottawa is completely insignificant. :what: While Washington may have taken priority over Ottawa to invade in the first place, I'm sure that anyone who chose to invade the States would have invaded Canada shortly thereafter. Canada did actually contribute a fair bit to WWII. Anyway, how many often is Washington invaded?
Chris Crowder
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I think that's his point; Ottawa is as much out of reach for the Axis as Washington. Tehran or Cairo would have been a more interesting scenario - although Egypt doesn't need to provide any additional motivation to the Axis to be attacked.
Lawrence Davis
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Thanks Chris. You understand my point correctly.

Having another Victory City placed in the Western Hemisphere looks and sounds good and hell why not? Why not have the Axis get off their butts and load up some transports and do some real fighting.
It may even make North Americans (or in this case Canadians) feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but it's a major flaw in the game that should not have been made.

Let's be honest, any invasion the Axis can mount against the Western Hemisphere isn't going to come until Russia and Asia have been well subdued. And having subdued Russia and Asia will in itself have secured an Axis Victory so it begs to ask then what's the point of another unreachable VC city in the Americas.

Now of course there are always the rare games where London will be captured early game and the British are neutralized and Canada is wide open for invasion, but again those games are seldom started with that in mind for the Axis players. They more or less come about with the UK player not paying attention to his island's defense and the German player seeing an opening and striking at it.

From a historical point, there are at least four areas I think that would have been more beneficial to the game if either one of them had been chosen as a VC site.

First, Cairo. Even without a VC, Egypt is destined to be a hotly contested area, due to the fact it is the gateway to Africa and the MiddleEast. But having a VC there would at least allow Italy a chance to attain a VC and would have put unbelievable pressure on the Allies to secure and defend their holdings in Africa.

Second, Cape Town. South Africa was very important to the British Empire. A VC here would again put pressure on the Allies to secure Africa. It would have been more of a challenge for the Axis to take, but still a hell lot more doable than a city in Canada.

Third, Tehran. The MiddleEast with it's Oil production was extremely important to the Allied war effort. The lost of the MiddleEast would have been a tremendous blow to the Allies. The German war plans did include an eventual invasion into Persia to capture Oil fields and secure the local governments under German control.

Lastly, a VC box in the Atlantic. This could represent the overall importance of the convoy and merchant routes through the Atlantic and Britian's dependence on them.

These are just my top 4 options for a VC anywhere but Ottawa.
Last edited on 2009-01-03 08:00:03 CST (Total Number of Edits: 2)
Don Moody
United States
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Re: How About a VC on the Moon?
DocD wrote:
Second, Cape Town. South Africa was very important to the British Empire. A VC here would again put pressure on the Allies to secure Africa. It would have been more of a challenge for the Axis to take it of course, but still a hell lot more doable than a city in Canada.


The Axis (any of them - or all of them combined) had about the same chance as conquering South Africa as they did of having bases on the moon.

DonMoody
Trent Hogan
Canada

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OK.. If you do some real WWII research you will find that like WWI Halifax, Nova Scotia was probably the most important port on the east coast of North America (Read about the Halifax explosion, the largest man made explosion before the nuke) I think Larry knows a thing or two about WWII. He chose Ottawa to represent the importance of Canada and especially Eastern Canada. Remember only 3 allied powers were awarded beaches on D-Day. The US, Canada and Britian. 1.1 Million Canadians served in WWII. I also think Canada has been nurfed on IPC value on both coasts. I mean, come on people, to say that Brazil was as important to the war effort as Eastern Canada?? Are you kidding me? Or even the combination of French West Africa, French Equatorial Africa and the Belgian Congo? I even question Norway. Ask yourself this. Which would have been the greatest loss for the allies: 1. Losing Calcutta to the axis..2. Losing Shanghi? Or losing Ottawa to the axis? The defence rests.


A little bragging tid bit.Source Wikipedia.
The Canadian forces that landed on Juno Beach faced heavy batteries of machine-gun nests, pillboxes, other concrete fortifications, and a seawall twice the height of the one at Omaha Beach. Despite the obstacles, the Canadians were off the beach within hours and advancing inland.The Canadians were the only units to reach their D-Day objectives,

Last edited on 2009-01-02 05:17:04 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Lawrence Davis
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Nyde wrote:
OK.. If you do some real WWII research you will find that like WWI Halifax, Nova Scotia was probably the most important port on the east coast of North America (Read about the Halifax explosion, the largest man made explosion before the nuke) I think Larry knows a thing or two about WWII. He chose Ottawa to represent the importance of Canada and especially Eastern Canada.


Don't misunderstand me, this is NOT an arguement to Canada's importance during the war. I know how important Canada was to the Allied war effort. (If I recall, the Canadians were very important in gathering invasion information with that raid on Dieppe.)
I'm simply stating that the game didn't need another unattainable VC in the Americas.

It would have served the game better if Eastern Canada's Industrial Production had been increased. That would have been a better representation to Canada's contribution to the war effort than giving them a VC IMO.
Trent Hogan
Canada

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DocD]I'm extremely surprised that after all the trouble Larry went through to make the game more historical, he allowed Ottawa to be a VC city. Are you kidding.....Canada has a VC city. That's just Dumb.
[/q wrote:


I am sorry but this statement sounds like you seriously fail to comprehend canada's importance in WWII. It also sounds VERY disrespectful to the more than 45,000 Canadians who gave their lives in WWII and the 54,000 were wounded. Eastern Canada should be worth 4 and have an industrial complex on it. Ottawa should certainly be a victory city.

Now I do agree that it would be extremely hard for the Axis to capture Eastern Canada. Larry should have added a couple Victory cities to bring the total to 20. Then a winning 15 VC's would seem more realistic.

I would have offset Ottawa with Soul Korea giving the allies a very hard to capture VC. I would have also included Cairo Egypt.

I do not mean to be confrontational but your review came across as if Canada’s role in WWII were a joke. I really enjoyed your review up until that point and still think that the rest of the review was excellent. If your premise was that Ottawa should not be a VC because it would be far too hard to capture,it did not read as such. Moreover, I would still also strongly disagree.

No hard feeling though, I have licked my wounds and just want to reflect on how I read the review.
;)


Last edited on 2009-01-02 11:47:37 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Kevin Elliott
Canada

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Nyde wrote:

DocD wrote:
Are you kidding.....Canada has a VC city. That's just Dumb.
I am sorry but this statement sounds like you seriously fail to comprehend Canada's importance in WWII...

I do not mean to be confrontational but your review came across as if Canada’s role in WWII were a joke... If your premise was that Ottawa should not be a VC because it would be far too hard to capture,it did not read as such.


Maybe I'm just overly sensitive, but this is how it originally sounded to me, too. I completely agree that Cairo was geographically much closer to the action, and hence would have been easier for the Axis to pick off. But perhaps that would have made it too easy for the Axis to get the required number of VC's (btw, I don't actually own the game yet)? I agree that it would have been better to up the IPCs contributed by Canada - perhaps even by decreasing the IPCs contributed by Great Britain alone.

Does the Western US have a victory city? I can understand putting one in Washington (capital of a major power), but San Francisco or LA were probably just as likely to be taken out as Ottawa was.
Trent Hogan
Canada

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CanucKev wrote:
Nyde wrote:

DocD wrote:
Are you kidding.....Canada has a VC city. That's just Dumb.
I am sorry but this statement sounds like you seriously fail to comprehend Canada's importance in WWII...

I do not mean to be confrontational but your review came across as if Canada’s role in WWII were a joke... If your premise was that Ottawa should not be a VC because it would be far too hard to capture,it did not read as such.


Maybe I'm just overly sensitive, but this is how it originally sounded to me, too. I completely agree that Cairo was geographically much closer to the action, and hence would have been easier for the Axis to pick off. But perhaps that would have made it too easy for the Axis to get the required number of VC's (btw, I don't actually own the game yet)? I agree that it would have been better to up the IPCs contributed by Canada - perhaps even by decreasing the IPCs contributed by Great Britain alone.

Does the Western US have a victory city? I can understand putting one in Washington (capital of a major power), but San Francisco or LA were probably just as likely to be taken out as Ottawa was.




San Francisco and Otawa are VCs as they should be. There can be a good mix of easy to capture and hard to capture VCs while still holding true to history. Cairo would be one of the more easy captures like say Sydney Australia.
Neil Parker
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Nice post Doc. Now i've got myself a copy!

I concur with your comments. I like the new tech roll rules and the new tech options, SBR rules, the new costs of naval units and the new trannies. Buying ships should be more interesting and although still not quite right i like the way subs have been adjusted to allow them to either completely avoid most combats or else not impede movement.

It seems AA50 is a genuinely fresh version rather than the revised rehash - the game looks good.

The components for me are generally good although the mapboard has slight warping but its not that noticeable and i like the size and more territories. Allowing the Japs to move first is an interesting new rule in the 42 set up.

I like the inclusion of Italy and China. Both are weak but play a vital role and Italy in particular has a nice Mediterranean role.

Although i understand the inclusion of Ottawa as a VC it would for me have been preferable to include Cairo instead (or even Cape Town). Cairo would have given an added incentive for Italy and an easier VC for the Axis.

One addition i would have made would be to include the task force cards from Revised. Unnecessary maybe, but i quite liked them as it meant a tidier board.
Last edited on 2009-01-03 03:11:34 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Chris Crowder
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There's difficult VC and then there's impossible VC. Speaking as a Canadian living in Ottawa and who's proud of our history (we have the National War Museum here, Nov 11th ceremonies and a ton of monuments to remind us), I still think it's not a good VC for game purposes. Playing as Germany I can't imagine how it's do-able unless I've gotten Washington (i.e. have already won the game). I didn't read any offense into that observation.
Lawrence Davis
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Thanks Chris. That's my point totally. I'm a historicalist (is that even a word?) and would prefer to see VCs that make historical sense.

The more I think about it, Cairo makes all the sense in the world to me. El Alamein and the Suez canal were very important to both sides. What would have happened if the Axis had been able to capture both? How much of a blow to the Allies' morale (esp in 1941 or 1942 when the outcome of the war was no way certain) would it had been? How much pressure would it had been on the Allies to keep the MiddleEast Oil Fields from falling into Axis hands?

If needed, for game purposes, increase the UK presence in Eygpt. Maybe add another tank. But, I'm convinced Cairo should be the VC city and not Ottawa.

Last edited on 2009-01-05 19:39:33 CST (Total Number of Edits: 2)
Mister Germ
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I think Ottawa is a fine choice, and don't think the Victory City should be moved at all.

Canada was an unconditional ally in that war, as was South Africa, but Canada was stronger, more industrial, and ultimately more valuable strategically.

I say this because I think it is an error to conclude that Axis has won if it can take the Soviet Union out of the game. It's not true. In two of our last three games, Germany and Italy beat the USSR, with a Japanese assist in Siberia. The US and UK continued fighting, just as I assume Churchill would have done. The guy has certainly been over-romanticized, and yet I can't help but think he would have kept fighting until Britain was the last land left.

Cairo, while certainly very valuable historically, doesn't seem to cut it.

The Axis has to take either London, New York, San Francisco or Ottawa to win the game. For the US and UK to lose, they have to start losing home territories, in my opinion.
Chris Crowder
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So it's going to be London then, every time. Some variety would have been nice.
J Griffey
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Texas
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Not Ottawa (too hard), Hong Kong (too easy), or Manila (too easy), but Rio de Janeiro, Cape Town, and Chungking would have been my picks for Victory Cities. And yes, 13, not 15, Victory Cities for Victory is more reasonable. Then, the Axis "just" needs to reduce the Allies to Washington, San Francisco, Honolulu, London and Sydney.
Don Moody
United States
Roseville
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AnimalMother wrote:
Not Ottawa (too hard), Hong Kong (too easy), or Manila (too easy), but Rio de Janeiro, Cape Town, and Chungking would have been my picks for Victory Cities. And yes, 13, not 15, Victory Cities for Victory is more reasonable. Then, the Axis "just" needs to reduce the Allies to Washington, San Francisco, Honolulu, London and Sydney.


In a 'Risk-like' game of 'Conquer the World', I think:
- having the VCs spread fairly evenly around 'the World'
- requiring control of a distinct majority of the VCs

makes a lot of sense.

DonMoody
J Carmichael
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If i recalle correctly, Ottawa was being set up to become the Capital of the British Empire in the event that Britain was conquered by the Germans.

I assume that is the logic behind making ottawa a victory city, it was to be the backup capital.

Trent Hogan
Canada

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mister_germ wrote:

I think Ottawa is a fine choice, and don't think the Victory City should be moved at all.

Canada was an unconditional ally in that war, as was South Africa, but Canada was stronger, more industrial, and ultimately more valuable strategically.

I say this because I think it is an error to conclude that Axis has won if it can take the Soviet Union out of the game. It's not true. In two of our last three games, Germany and Italy beat the USSR, with a Japanese assist in Siberia. The US and UK continued fighting, just as I assume Churchill would have done. The guy has certainly been over-romanticized, and yet I can't help but think he would have kept fighting until Britain was the last land left.

Cairo, while certainly very valuable historically, doesn't seem to cut it.

The Axis has to take either London, New York, San Francisco or Ottawa to win the game. For the US and UK to lose, they have to start losing home territories, in my opinion.


I agree but what's more is that people have to weight historical importance over game play. Historically Ottawa was much more important than many of the other victory cities and if England had fallen Ottawa would have certainly been the UK's ralley point and springboard, as before mentioned by Mister Germ Canada was highly industrialized and farely close to Europe. Canada also had a formittable navy witch played a key role in the protection of Atlantic convoyes. So if you want historical accuracy by selecting VCs with importance, than Ottawa is a no-brainer. If you want to set up the game so it plays evenly you are going to have to change A LOT more than one or two victory cities, starting armies and incomes notwithstanding.

Moreover, if you read the original post and my first comment, you will see my attack was not just game related but on correcting what seemed to be a mislead assumption that Canada did not deserve this much credit for its WWII contribution. I am, however, very greatful the tread was posted as it has lead to some interesting comments.











Paul D.
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Ottawa would be the logical choice as a focal point for a United Kingdom government to be seated in exile. If Operation Sea Lion works and London is captured by the Axis, where would the British fall back to? Think a few steps ahead and Ottawa works out.
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