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dave de boer
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Dominion » Forums » Reviews
Some thoughts on the success of Dominion
I know that there is a surfeit of reviews already on Dominion, but this game has really made an impression on me and others I play with, so here’s my two bits worth of opinion. Others have very nicely summarized the mechanics of Dominion and have provided pictures showing the components. I’ll skip those parts then and tell you instead why this game is a good one. I’ve had amazing success with getting this game on the table; people just like to play it. Here’s some of my thoughts on why. Beware! - this is not a description of the game but my opinions about the game.

Some observations...

1. Dominion is accessible.

The rules for Dominion are easy to learn and explain; we aren’t talking about rocket science here. The rules can be explained in just a few minutes, which means that this game will more easily get on the table. By the time you’ve gone through a few rounds of the first game, everyone will understand how it works. Since acquiring this game I have taught it to seven people (compared to Agricola, which I have taught to only four people, even though I have owned the game much longer). Of the top ten games in the BGG ranking, Dominion is, in my opinion, the most accessible and easy to learn. Yet it is by no means simplistic.

2. Dominion is quick.

A game of Dominion does not take long to play. After learning the rules, the players can be rewarded immediately with more than one play. The number of plays means that multiple strategies can be tried. If your strategy bombs, it isn’t a big deal. You learned something, and you play again right away. This speeds up the learning curve. It is not unreasonable to expect to play three or four games in an evening and still have time for something else (even if your opponents are playing for the first time).

3. Dominion has high replayability.

Sure, it plays quick, but no matter, since I always feel like starting another round. Every game only uses ten of the twenty-five different action card types. After experimenting with the recommended starting ten, it is enormous fun to select a new ten at random. Someone with a better knowledge of statistics than I have will tell you that there are a lot of different combinations to play with. Each game is different because of the combinations of cards. Even playing with the same cards, there are different things to try. I won’t quickly tire of playing this game. Neither do others. I have yet to sit down to play only one game of Dominion; it always ends up being three or four games.

4. Dominion is deep.

I think of this game as having several layers. The various layers give the game some staying power. They also allow players to ease their way into the game in stages. I have really enjoyed learning this game and have also enjoyed watching others learning this game. Here are the layers I have discovered so far...

First layer: players learn the rules and start playing with a few cards just to see how they work.

Second layer: players become familiar with the various cards and their mechanics. They develop preferences for certain cards and begin to have a strategy in mind.

Third layer: players experiment with certain combinations of cards. (The Smithy is better if you can play a Village first. Or the Remodel will let you turn a Gold Treasure directly into a Province. Etc).

Fourth layer: players now start to think about making their deck efficient. (Buying too many action cards doesn’t work. Buying victory points too early clogs up your deck; waiting too long for VP’s is dangerous too. Buying treasure is good, but a few actions will help grease the wheels.)

Fifth layer: players finally start to think of their deck in relation to what others are building. It isn’t good enough to build well; you have build faster than the other player. If possible, you want to throw some sand in his gears.

It took me one play to get past layer one, then another couple to get past layer two. The third layer is a lot of fun, as you experience ‘eureka!’ moments by trying card combos yourself or by watching (and stealing) the ideas that others stumble across. After 25 plays I have found some interesting combos, but by no means have I exhausted the possibilities. So, I would say I’m still in layer three (and probably will be for a while). The fourth layer is something I’ve just begun thinking about, and the fifth layer I haven’t really even touched yet, other than experimenting with the Militia and some of the other attack cards. Despite the easy rule set, this game has quite a bit of depth. It helps that there are so many different combos of cards, since each situation requires a different approach. A card that may be hot in one group may be a dud in another.

5. Dominion scales well.

This game is just as fun with two players as it is with three or four. My wife loves this game (so far she has won 5 games to my 3!).

Result: People like to play Dominion!!

Some examples:

a. I have taught this game to two people with little or no gaming experience (newbies). They caught on right away and enjoyed the game immensely. They both discovered interesting combos of cards that I had not thought of previously.

b. I brought this game to a games night with some friends. The ladies played Thebes, and the guys played Dominion. In no time we were all engaged in the game. We played four rounds, and afterwards the guys were already arranging when we could play again in the next two weeks. They were hooked instantly.

c. A friend of mine visited recently from out of province. He picked up Agricola while he was here, which I had ordered for him. We played Agricola, but we also played seven games of Dominion. It was Dominion that he was talking about when he left. He was sorely tempted to grab a copy for himself (even though he is a poor student - this was really an indication how much he liked the game). I’m not saying that Dominion is a better game than Agricola (which I also think is a great game, by the way), but Dominion certainly has the advantage over Agricola of being easier to play right out of the box.

d. My wife asks me for games of Dominion!!! Another friend of mine who owns the game has had the same experience with Dominion in his family.

Conclusion.

Dominion is one of my most successful game purchases ever. Success in this case is measured in (1) ease of getting others to play, and (2) level of fun and stimulation. Dominion has exploded out of my game closet like Secretariat at the Belmont Stakes. It is (1) easy to learn/teach, (2) plays well over and over again, (3) has multiple ways to win, (4) scales well and (5) has layer upon layer of depth. I highly recommend this game, and I’m convinced that you will not have trouble finding people to play it.
Eric Carter
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One thing I'd like to add to the discussion is How did you learn about Dominion? The reason I bring this up is because I never heard of it until Tom mentioned it in passing on The Dice Tower. He said it was one of the games he was most looking forward to, and if he's looking forward to something I figured I'd better find out more about it.

I'm not trying to shill for Tom, I'm just curious. I know others had heard about it by attending GenCon and still others by word-of-mouth.
Rasta Kyle
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08
I saw some articles here on BGG and then watched a few games on BSW. Ordered it immediately.

We usually start play with 10 random actions, then replace 3 of the 10 randomly every game after.
dave de boer
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Quote:
One thing I'd like to add to the discussion is How did you learn about Dominion?


I first saw this title on the 'Upcoming Games' page of Germangames.com, where I get a lot of my games. I ignored the game for quite a while, until I saw how popular it seemed to be on BGG. I tried a couple of plays with some friends who owned the game. On the strength of those two plays I got a copy for myself. I don't always try before I buy, but this time I got the chance and was instantly hooked.
Gunther Schmidl
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040708
I heard about it on BGN, and thought "great, this will be this Essen's Agricola/Blue Moon".

So I'm really, really glad it's actually not a relentlessly hyped game I have absolutely no interest in :arrrh:
troubadour wrote:

First layer: players learn the rules and start playing with a few cards just to see how they work.

Second layer: players become familiar with the various cards and their mechanics. They develop preferences for certain cards and begin to have a strategy in mind.

Third layer: players experiment with certain combinations of cards. (The Smithy is better if you can play a Village first. Or the Remodel will let you turn a Gold Treasure directly into a Province. Etc).

Fourth layer: players now start to think about making their deck efficient. (Buying too many action cards doesn’t work. Buying victory points too early clogs up your deck; waiting too long for VP’s is dangerous too. Buying treasure is good, but a few actions will help grease the wheels.)

Fifth layer: players finally start to think of their deck in relation to what others are building. It isn’t good enough to build well; you have build faster than the other player. If possible, you want to throw some sand in his gears.


I like the way you set this up. I've only got a handful of plays in on Dominion, but I have to agree with the first few layers. I feel as though I am in the 3rd layer and will probably be there for some time, trying my own combos and incorporating some others that I read about or see in use.

Sounds like a poll.... what layer are you in Dominion? :D
alan beaumont
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Dominion is quick.

And the better you play the quicker it gets!
Jonathan Morton
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070809
I heard of Dominion here on BGG first, read an early preview which didn't make it sound interesting, and thus ignored it... until it popped up on BSW. I read the rules there, played 2 games, and immediately placed my preorder.
Mark McEvoy
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Jonny5 wrote:
I heard of Dominion here on BGG first, read an early preview which didn't make it sound interesting, and thus ignored it... until it popped up on BSW. I read the rules there, played 2 games, and immediately placed my preorder.


So, in retrospect, how do you think the previews misrepresented the game? What was different between how the previews made you think about the game, and how it proved to be?
Jonathan Morton
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070809
The previews were fine, I just didn't do a good job of visualizing how it all comes together. And to some degree I intentionally didn't try to grasp it - I prefer to discover games for myself rather than listen to buzz about them and build up misguided expectations. I did a similar thing with Agricola, paid it no mind until I unexpectedly got a chance to play on a homemade copy and was suitably impressed. Not that I always get a good impression of popular games I've mostly been ignoring - Shadows Over Camelot and Stone Age are the other side of the coin, absolute dogs that I was happy to try out because they sounded kinda cool from the little I knew of them.
J C Lawrence
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0405060708
Yes, Dominion implements a Skinner Box well.
Douglas Buel
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0809
clearclaw wrote:
Yes, Dominion implements a Skinner Box well.


OOH, EVERYONE WHO LIKES DOMINION JUST GOT SERVED
Rick Holzgrafe
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troubadour wrote:
2. Dominion is quick.


This is a trait that usually makes me less interested in a game. I prefer games with long-term strategies: a meal rather than a snack.

But I'm not harshing on Dominion. After all, length isn't the only virtue that games can have, and your other points do sound attractive to me. I actually own Dominion but haven't had an opportunity to play it yet, and I'm looking forward to it.

clearclaw wrote:
Yes, Dominion implements a Skinner Box well.


QFTAH (Quoted for truth and hilarity) :D


J C Lawrence
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dbuel wrote:
clearclaw wrote:
Yes, Dominion implements a Skinner Box well.


OOH, EVERYONE WHO LIKES DOMINION JUST GOT SERVED


No, a good Skinner Box is not a bad thing, not at all, but it also clearly characterises the attraction curve for the game. Depending on your preferences that pattern is attractive or not.
dave de boer
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Quote:
Yes, Dominion implements a Skinner Box well.


Now I know what a Skinner Box is. I can see how Dominion might qualify, but I find the game enjoyable regardless. Fun comes in different packages, and I enjoy a game as long as it is fun. (I realise that fun is hardly a scientific measure for a game.)

This reference led me to take a peak at Clearclaw's profile page, which I highly recommend for a read. I don't share the same gaming preferences, but I enjoyed what was written. Thanks, Clearclaw, for the 'remainder game,' which I will now forever use as a start player choice mechanism!
David Tomic
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First: Very good review/opinion-statement. I basically agree on your analysis of the game, and therefore one would expect that I would love this game, ...

but (alas!)

Second: What ruins this thing is that, having played Magic for many years, it reminds me a lot of Magic in the strategies you have to choose, how you eventually end up having to build your deck etc. This feels to me like a Diet Magic with a limited (very) number of cards.

You have to think of "card-economy" - whichever card you draw must be the desired one or at least usable. You will end up finding that there are just so many optimal opening card-picks and so on. Therefore I early anticipated where a prolonged exposure of this game would lead me to - it is never good when you have seen the outer boundaries of a game and the relentless repetitive mechanisms that eventually follow, limiting one's imagination and fun - and quickly chose to turn to another games instead.

Sorry for being "the negative voice", but I feel a bit like the Emperor's new clothes, in this sea of Dominion-worshippers... :-))

I really hope that all of you who disagree with me will enjoy the game for a long time. I thought to post an opinion for those who have not yet played and/or bought this game so that they could have some second opinion to compare.
Jennifer Schlickbernd
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I would disagree with you. And the reason that there isn't the optimization that you see in MtG is because the cards to pick from are different every time. So let's say that Smithy/Silver is great as an opening. What happens if there's no Smithy? Then what? In MtG, even if a given player doesn't have all the cards, everyone theoretically can put in every card of whatever set they are playing from. This is why MtG becomes optimized in that way. But in Dominion, the players don't have access to every card. And while there can still be an alternative opening, that opening may not be the best alternative given a set of cards.
Myke Madsen
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Blackbird Mystic wrote:
This feels to me like a Diet Magic with a limited (very) number of cards.


You say that as if it's a bad thing.

I'm a former Magic Addict from the mid 90's, so I know exactly what you're saying, but I'll gladly take my Diet Magic over the regular Magic, which for me consumed too much time, money and brain cycles.
Scott Mayer
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Blackbird Mystic wrote:
Second: What ruins this thing is that, having played Magic for many years, it reminds me a lot of Magic in the strategies you have to choose, how you eventually end up having to build your deck etc. This feels to me like a Diet Magic with a limited (very) number of cards.

You have to think of "card-economy" - whichever card you draw must be the desired one or at least usable. You will end up finding that there are just so many optimal opening card-picks and so on. Therefore I early anticipated where a prolonged exposure of this game would lead me to - it is never good when you have seen the outer boundaries of a game and the relentless repetitive mechanisms that eventually follow, limiting one's imagination and fun - and quickly chose to turn to another games instead.
As a Magic player myself, I understand but disagree with your sentiments here. The game certainly parallels Magic in many ways, but card economy is only one of the factors you need to consider to truly be great at Dominion. One of the primary differences between Magic and Dominion is the speed of the influence of the metagame between decks. Surely you're familiar with the idea that as strategy A becomes more popular, it causes strategy B to become less effective because B loses to A, but it makes strategy C more effective because C beats A. This leads in turn to C becoming more popular, etc. In Magic, you'll see this happening over the course of weeks or months as high level tournaments get played. In Dominion, this happens during the course of a single game, as the player who metagames their deck strategy most effectively generally winds up the winner.

t~
clearclaw wrote:
Yes, Dominion implements a Skinner Box well.


SKIN-NER!
Wade
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Great post and spot on. I'm NOT a magic player and here's my quick story.

Wife calls (semi-light-gamer) friend to come over after a bad day. We have a beer and play Rumis and CC while chatting. I throw Dominion out and neither semi gamer women baulks, and they even set up and we play a very fun game of Dominion. Then we moved onto Time's Up. Not many other games iwth that many choices could have worked in that situation.
Last edited on 2009-01-08 12:18:32 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Kirkwb
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clearclaw wrote:
Yes, Dominion implements a Skinner Box well.


Shut up and give me my cheese.
Joe Baptist
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rholzgrafe wrote:
troubadour wrote:
2. Dominion is quick.


This is a trait that usually makes me less interested in a game. I prefer games with long-term strategies: a meal rather than a snack.

But I'm not harshing on Dominion. After all, length isn't the only virtue that games can have, and your other points do sound attractive to me. I actually own Dominion but haven't had an opportunity to play it yet, and I'm looking forward to it.

clearclaw wrote:
Yes, Dominion implements a Skinner Box well.


QFTAH (Quoted for truth and hilarity) :D




The "quickness" that most appeals about Dominion is not that the game ends quickly, but that there is sop little down time within the game.
We have had several occasions where, during a 4 player game, a player hasn't finished shuffling their deck before it's their turn again.

This makes it great for keeping players involved (especially younger players).
Greg Jones
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troubadour wrote:
5. Dominion scales well.

This game is just as fun with two players as it is with three or four.


I was inclined to retort that that's because it's multiplayer solitaire. (Keep in mind I like Dominion a lot.) In some games (e.g. San Juan), the interaction shines more with fewer players, so you can say it doesn't scale well.

I decided not to make that comment. Some games of Dominion are not very interactive, because they happen to not have the interactive cards in the game (and yet those games are still fun). Some games are interactive, but they still scale well. I think that's because of the design principle the designer used that all of the interactive cards affect all players equally. In some games, an attack action is relatively less worthwhile in a four-player game than an action that benefits yourself. You'd have to play it three different times against each other player to get the same benefit. But in Dominion, attack cards play against all opponents, so they remain equally strong in two-player or in four-player.
Eric Carter
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morningstar wrote:
troubadour wrote:
5. Dominion scales well.

This game is just as fun with two players as it is with three or four.


I was inclined to retort that that's because it's multiplayer solitaire. (Keep in mind I like Dominion a lot.) In some games (e.g. San Juan), the interaction shines more with fewer players, so you can say it doesn't scale well.

I decided not to make that comment. Some games of Dominion are not very interactive, because they happen to not have the interactive cards in the game (and yet those games are still fun). Some games are interactive, but they still scale well. I think that's because of the design principle the designer used that all of the interactive cards affect all players equally. In some games, an attack action is relatively less worthwhile in a four-player game than an action that benefits yourself. You'd have to play it three different times against each other player to get the same benefit. But in Dominion, attack cards play against all opponents, so they remain equally strong in two-player or in four-player.


I'm more inclined to play a Thief or a Witch in a 4-player game than a 2-player game, though. But when you're discussing the affected players, yes, I agree with your points.
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