The truth is that if you talk to any TWO people that are part of any ONE religion, your'e bound to get different answers about some things.

However, I'm more interested to hear if anyone thinks that the Mormon genealogy project could be an interesting topic for a boardgame.

That would be a very interesting board game and I would love to pursue it. I'll give it some thought and let you know what I come up with.

This will be my last response in regards to the religion discussion:

Difference is that "most religions" aren't uniform enough in their beliefs that you can and will get different answers to the same question. One baptist church run by one minister can teach one thing and another baptist church could techinically teach another.

The LDS church, though, has ONE group of leaders (Prophet and Apostles) that run the entire church and every church teaches from the same manuals and scriptures. Bishops don't get paid so there is no benefit to teaching one thing from another. AND all active members go to temples that have the EXACT same ceremony within all of them. So no, if you ask an active members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints the same question, you will get the same answer. Otherwise they aren't telling you what the church actually teaches.



Honestly? People who play/buy most board games are college students (for dates and game nights around the apartment complexes) and big families (for monday night "family time"). Genealogy is sorta viewed like a "chore" by kids and the college age kids so not sure marketable that would be.

Best design philosophy for LDS-themed games would be to start with a fun party style game and then put a mormon theme to it. Things like Apples to Apples and other games that get everyone involved at the same time are big out here. Light strategy games that don't involve cut-throat tactics like Ticket to Ride are also popular. Finally, completely off-the-wall games like Killer Bunnies/Munchkin also tend to get big.

So make a game with the same design philosophies as the above and put a mormon-twist (book of mormon themed, pioneer themed, etc) to it and you would be gold.

Was this directed at me/the missionary dungeon crawler, or at the geneology game?

I'm not sure I buy the chore =/= game argument.

Power Grid is a good example of what could be regarded as a game involving "chores"....

Well the theme of geneology would pretty much only appeal to Mormons, and of Mormons, it's mostly older folks who are interested in the topic. Board games mostly appeal to the younger age groups (children-college age) or families, and families usually have kids of these above ages. Kids that are of the age that are more interested in board games do not really enjoy the topic of geneology, as it feels like a chore. Trying to make a game that appeals to a small minority inside of a small minority isn't worth most people's time. If, however, someone was able to make geneology appear fun, it might work. But that's still a big might.

Well, that's the key, right?



My understanding is that for Mormons, genealogy is more that finding out who you your great gandma was. The project baptizes Holocaust victims, etc. so it could be a historical game and a strategic game....

Well, yes, it is. But I guess the game would have to be about the finding of the ancestors, but I don't see as how that's really fun, in and of itself. The fun/redeeming quality of geneology is in knowing that you are doing a service (baptism) for people who can not get it done without your help. Just playing pretend geneology doesn't sound fun OR redeeming. I'd rather just do the real thing, and I think that most Mormons would feel the same way.

And as far as baptisms, I'd much prefer that not be turned into a game as it is a sacred ordinance that should be taken seriously.

Bull. Total and utter bull. I was raised in your religion, and was once pretty familiar with its ins and outs, and this is an absolute lie.

Ask two Mormons policy on caffeine, and have them explain to you why they believe what they believe.

I grew up in a family that was allowed no caffeine (except chocolate and such) while friends of mine were allowed to drink caffeinated soda. Policy regarding this tenant is vague and often contradictory, like any either organization and dogma.

No inner sanctum? What about temple rituals?

I can appreciate that.

Maybe the game revolves around attracting, thorugh various means, a "flock" that would be ready for baptism, so that doesn't actually become part of the game. Biggest flock wins, or it could be a cooperative game to see how big a flock everyone can collect before Amageddon (not sure here if Mormons have an Armageddon concept).

That's true that this discussion needs to end at some point! I think that is a good point to stop because some people here have stupid ideas that are just hearsay and have no basis in fact whatsoever! Get the point, Hunga Dunga!

Haha! Well, there is the second coming, which is when Jesus returns to the world.

Haha! I once came up with an idea for a board game that was based on the People's Temple (Jim Jones, anyone?). You'd use different tactics to attract people to your cult. But then I abandoned the idea when I realized it just used Ticket to Ride and Carcossonne pieces. So it didn't feel all that original anymore.

Yes, you're right. Sorry for prolonging this.

Pardon me for saying so, but I think you need to be a little less judgemental.

You are confusing policy and doctrine. The doctrine on the word of wisdom (no tobacco, alcoholic beverages, tea, coffee, or "harmful drugs") has been consistent for a long time, and you'd have difficulty finding an active Mormon who is confused on whether any of those things is allowed under the Word of Wisdom.

Tea and coffee obviously contain caffeine, and so many Mormons do not drink caffeinated beverages either. And others do. But there's no official doctrine on caffeine, and never has been.



My family didn't allow caffeinated drinks either. This was my family's policy, and it was neither vague nor contradictory. While it was religiously motivated, it was not the product of "vague and often contradictory" church policy. There was no church policy on caffeine to invoke.

As the poster above stated, if you ask different active Mormons and get different answer, that's a very good clue that there is no doctrine (and probably no official policy) on the subject in question. Like all organizations, people in it have their own opinions and their own theories.



As the person you responded to stated, they're the same everywhere. If they were the source of "secret" doctrine, there'd be plenty of active Mormons who knew all about it. If you want to know what Mormons actually believe, ask them. By *definition*, a doctrine which active Mormons have never heard of, let alone believe, cannot be what "Mormons believe".

I think that Hunga Dunga took the hint from the beginning and has actually been posting game design related things. I think, for me anyway, several ideas about different themes for LDS/Mormon themed games have been shared. Some by Hunga Dunga. It is amazing how referring to Mormons and their beliefs and whatnot really gets people going. I just wanted to share some of my experience and see what ideas other people had on the subject. So far, I think several perspectives and ideas on the subject of Mormon themes have been shared (intermingled with off topic talk of Mormon beliefs). I think that the whole belief discussion could actually be addressed in a forum like this, if it was related to a specific game idea. But that really hasn't happened much here.

It's interesting though, the first time I talked with Phil Reschke from Covenant Communications he commented that a lot of submissions deal with players getting to the celestial kingdom (discussion of this will probably ensue). Which got me thinking that for some reason it appears that no one has really taken LDS/Mormon themed game design seriously (I'm not trying to say that those who had submitted the "get to the celestial kingdom" ideas weren't taking it seriously, just that if that was his general experience looking over submissions, then what about all the other avenues that could be looked at?). I mean, we've already brought up several other themes that could be pursued. I guess, just keep in mind that the design needs to keep components to a minimum and, like Obifett said:

Best design philosophy for LDS-themed games would be to start with a fun party style game and then put a mormon theme to it. Things like Apples to Apples and other games that get everyone involved at the same time are big out here. Light strategy games that don't involve cut-throat tactics like Ticket to Ride are also popular. Finally, completely off-the-wall games like Killer Bunnies/Munchkin also tend to get big.

party style games would also be good. You need to make sure it plays with 4 players.
Thank you all for entertaining my curiosity here. It fun to discuss and get insights from others.

Oh good! I'm glad someone revived this thread! Anyone who has been reading the whole will see that I said that a geneaology game would be no fun. Well, I actually decided to take it as a challenge and have begun design on a geneaology game wherein players try to find the ancestors that best match their own traits or whatever else I decide will be the factor that differentites people from one another. Players will be "bidding" their time towards researching family members in order to compile their 4-generations list. It's actually coming along pretty well and looks to be fun!

I'll be GMing you, Seth, just to let you know I'm interested to learn more about mayday games. I just can't GM at work because it's restricted for some odd reason.

I just stumbled on this discussion.


I think you meant "hearsay", not "heresy", but it's an amusing slip.

But his point is well taken. Hunga is right to say there's a diversity of viewpoints within a group, but Steven is also right that it's better to trust the insiders' description of their own beliefs rather than outsiders'.

(It's funny how often it doesn't work that way, though, and it's not just about Mormons, but any group you're not familiar with. I think people tend to trust those they consider "in" their circle over those "out" of it, even when describing those outside.)

As far as references go, I think Hunga got the groups mixed up. It's Muslims, not Mormons, who are allowed to have up to 4 wives. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamous.

Thanks for the pointers on LDS game publishing, Mike.

Seth-
Didn't know you guys were out there. Sent you an email on your website.

I had a 'weird' experience with Mortimer at Cedar Fort. Sent him a prototype for TEMPLE MATCH, a simple card matching game I designed based on Temples [it's a series game I designed - I can retheme it for anything - currently have a half dozen other versions in the pipe]. After talking with him on the phone, I sent it off to him, then 3 days later he calls ME and declares he WANTS IT!

I'm thinking - GREAT! Then 3 months roll by - they don't have a graphics artist that can put together the art for the cards... sheesh! I had to pull the offer [I could never get him to put anything in writing]. I'm getting ready to go to the BYU Art Dept and recruit artists there [already have one painting of the Logan Temple that is awesome - doing all these in watercolors and looking forward to the possibility of a coffee table book after the game is out that features all the paintings so the artists can get a boost], but I'm still looking for a possible publisher or a distributor.... very seriously thinking about just publishing it myself. I've got one or two other designs ready to go for the LDS market, but having a heck of a time finding a publisher - even worse time trying to find decent packaging! For the life of me, I can't find plastic boxes to put games in!

Desperate for 8.5x5.5x1.5 and 8.5x11x1.5. Anybody?

Chester, you might want to take a look at this and also the publisher, maybe.

Temples CCG

Their publisher is Missionary Novelty Company. Their products aren't great, since their ideas are rip-offs of other ideas, and their production values appear to be terrible, but you might want to take a look anyways.

Yeah.....I did check that out. I think you're right.... I'll keep looking.

Seth - called your number, but all I got was the answering machine. What are your business hours?

I would have thought farming was a chore, too, but apparently it's fun in board game (Agricola) and video game (Harvest Moon) forms! Also, internet gaming. (Farmersi.net)

So maybe geneaology project would be a good idea...

The problem I always see with Christian themed games is that I know my time is better spent doing something other than gaming, such as actually reading my Bible or praying. As for using it as a witnessing tool, Apples to Apples is cool but Apples to Apples Bible Edition is automatically lame.

I think a family game or a party game is the way to go, though, because those are going to be the people who are doing something on the God priority list (spending time with and building relationships with family/friends). ASL-LDS would probably not go over nearly so well.

Maybe an economic game of the build-up in Utah?

Or a cooperative game?

Or both in one!

Good luck!

Settlers of Zarahemla is a great version of Carc. It has better artwork than vanilla and adds a another way to earn points by adding bricks to a temple.

I bought it a year ago for a Mormon friend off of Tanga for real cheap.

Can't say enough good things about SETTLERS OF ZARAHEMLA. It is an excellent retheme. If you like the original, you should pick this up. The physical quality alone is worth the purchase. You don't need to know anything about LDS anything - the game stands alone as a snappy version of SETTLERS. When we want full on SETTLERS, we play SETTLERS + CITIES AND KNIGHTS + 5-6 PLAYER EXPANSION. When we want the basic game we don't revert to standard SETTLERS, we break out ZARAHEMLA. Highly recommended.