geek
The Hotness
Games|People|Company
Dominion - Stash Promo Card
Runewars
Dominion: Alchemy
Thunderstone
Dominion
Dungeon Lords
Alexander the Great
Agricola
Twilight Struggle
Murder at the Four Deuces
Stronghold
The Republic of Rome
Race for the Galaxy
Small World
Arkham Horror
Founding Fathers
Race for the Galaxy: The Brink of War
Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization
Vapor's Gambit
Battlestar Galactica
Chaos in the Old World
Le Havre
Last Night on Earth: The Zombie Game
Mystery Express
Puerto Rico
Endeavor
Power Grid
Vasco da Gama
Warhammer: Invasion
Descent: Journeys in the Dark
Space Hulk (3rd Edition)
Pandemic
Hansa Teutonica
Carson City
Campaign Manager 2008
War of the Ring
Livingstone
Cosmic Encounter
Stone Age
Le Havre: Le Grand Hameau
Tobago
Cosmic Encounter: Cosmic Incursion Expansion
Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition
Summoner Wars
War of the Ring Collector's Edition
Macao
Carcassonne
Dominion: Prosperity
Neuland
Steam
Rules | Subscriptions | Bookmarks | Search | Account | Moderators
Recommend
28
18 Posts
New Thread | Printer Friendly | Subscribe  sub options | Bookmark
Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Brian Bankler
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron06070809
mbmbmbmbmb
Warhammer: Invasion » Forums » Reviews
Tao of Gaming Review
Tonight I got to play four games of Warhammer: Invasion, the "Limited Card Game" set in the Warhammer Universe. This is like a collectable card game (in that you have deck building) but you buy non-random sets of cards. This is just a quick review, mechanics and general thoughts. I happen to like CCGs (particularly Shadowfist and Legend of the Five Rings), and I'm reasonably fond of the Warhammer world (Blood Bowl in particular, but I've played other games in the world).

Mechanics

Each player has a deck of 50-100 cards, and starts with a stronghold which shows their alignment (chaos, orcs, dwarves or empire to start with, elves and dark elves coming soon, I hear).

A typical card will have a resource cost expressed as a number and 0 or more symbols (like "4 Empire Empire"). You have to pay the number, then you have to pay one for each symbol you don't have. Each stronghold provides a symbol (so, an "Empire" player has one) and some other cards also provide symbols. So an Orc Leader may be "4 Orc Orc Orc Orc." So he costs 8 resources, but if you have a bunch of orcs in play (and the stronghold), you only pay 4.

Each unit has zero or more axe symbols (usually 1). This is how much damage they do. Units take one or more hits before they die, but damage accumulates.

Cards are played into one of three areas, "Quest", "Kingdom" and "Battlefield." The Battlefield is important because only units in your battlefield can go out and attack. At the end of your turn, you send units from your battlefield to attack an enemies area ... either Quest, Kingdom or Battlefield. Only units in that area can defend. You don't match up attacker versus defender, each side just totals their axes and assigns damage to other units. The attacker can also assign damage to the defender's stronghold.

Eight points of damage sets the area "on fire", and you lose when two of your areas are burning.

Apart from defending, units in the Quest and Kingdom serve another purpose ... for each axe in your Kingdom you get one resource a turn (and you always produce three, from your stronghold's intrinsic ability). Resources, you'll remember, pay for cards. Cards in your Quest area let you draw one extra card (beyond the one you get every turn). Play a few cards in your Quest area, and you can easily draw 4+ cards a turn. But if you run out of cards you lose, so it's a double edged sword.

In addition to characters, there are support cards (which just provide some benefits), cards that attach to other cards, tactics cards (which are 'instants' in magic lingo). Finally, one clever idea is that you can play one card a turn face down in an area as a development. Each development increases the amount of damage that part of the city can absorb, and many other cards give a bonus for developments.

The development idea works well, in that you can choose any card, and several times each game I'd develop only to change my mind about which card to use.

Like any CCG, Invasion has chrome and many cards break the rules. You don't "Tap" to attack (like Magic), but cards can become corrupt, which makes them unable to attack or defend. Damage can be reduced and redirected. There are also Quest cards, which require a unit to sit on them for several turns and then can trigger a powerful effect (usually after 4 turns).

Game Play

I've only played without deckbuilding, but the game play had several possibilities. I won one game quickly without increasing my starting resources or card drawing. I played a character that would do 3 damage (if there were two developments in the battlefield) and a development on turn one. Next turn, I played another development and another copy of the same character, and attacked for 6 points. Next turn I attacked for 8 points, burning an area, and finished a turn or two later.

One game I lost after early exchanges when I just couldn't match my opponents 9 resources a turn, which paid for a huge attacker I couldn't match.

I won one game by drawing 5 cards a turn. My opponent stopped attacking, but I managed to barely burn my second area the turn before I ran out of cards.

Each game after the first took roughly 30 minutes (except for that quick win). Warhammer:Invasion isn't the deepest CCG, but given the limited card set it seemed fine. Examining the cards I think there are a few reasonable strategies for deckbuilding ...

However, to build an interesting deck you'll probably want to buy a second copy. (Or have everyone buy one copy and trade). There are rules for drafting (and special cards used only in drafting), but we didn't try that.

Gut Feel

Warhammer:Invasion is a well done "LCG", but its still constrained by the format. $40 is enough to get you in, but to build a really interesting deck you'll probably want 2 or 3 boxes. Compared to a CCG, that's still cheap (I'd drop $200 on a Shadowfist expansion if it ever showed up....) You can have up to 5 (3? Unsure, see below) copies of a card in a deck, but each game only has 1 or 3 copies. Most criminal (in my mind), there are only 24 'neutral' cards (1-3 copies of each), but you'll probably want some for your Orc Deck, some for your Empire Deck, etc etc (assuming you wanted to build a few decks for your friends to play with, and not just one great deck for tournament play).

For me, I'd rather just go whole hog with a CCG I loved. I can resist the temptation to get involved in a new game. It's fun, but not that addicting, and while there is some ability to come back from a poor start, I suspect that games will be decided by speed and steamrolling more often than not in games like the ones we played where you just take a base deck and shuffle in a few random neutral cards.

So overall a nice diversion, but I'm not tempted to buy.
Last edited on 2009-08-19 10:58:18 CST (Total Number of Edits: 3)
Steve Jung
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
Quite a review...I did spot a few mistakes however.

Bankler wrote:
Tonight I got to play four games of Warhammer: Invasion, the "Limited Card Game" set in the Warhammer Universe.


1) It's a Living Card Game not a Limited Card Game.


Bankler wrote:
So an Orc Leader may be "4 Orc Orc Orc Orc." So he costs 8 resources, but if you have a bunch of orcs in play (and the stronghold), you only pay.


2) You only pay ____?


Bankler wrote:
Each unit has zero or more axe symbols (usually 1).


3) They are hammer symbols. I originally thought axe as well, but I think it's supposed to be Sigmar's Hammer or at least evoke something similar (Ulric's Hammer perhaps?). The game is named Warhammer after all.


Bankler wrote:
You can have up to 5 copies of a card in a deck, but each game only has 1 or 3 copies.


4) You cannot have more than 3 copies by title in a deck, not 5.
mads l. brynnum
Denmark
2400 Kbh. NV
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
patron05060708
mbmbmbmb
Bankler wrote:
I played a character that would do 3 damage (if there were two developments in the battlefield) and a development on turn one. Next turn, I played another development and another copy of the same character, and attacked for 6 points.


I haven't played the game (so thank you for explaining about it), but wouldn't a special character of the same kind be unique (or limited I think they call it) meaning that you can only have one in play?

And a related question just out of curiosity: how many duplicates (or triplicates) does the core game hold? Just a rough estimate, if you have one. Personally I believe that introducing the game will be easier with a few dupes since that's fewer cards one has to read.
Dennis Ugolini
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mads b. wrote:
Bankler wrote:
I played a character that would do 3 damage (if there were two developments in the battlefield) and a development on turn one. Next turn, I played another development and another copy of the same character, and attacked for 6 points.


I haven't played the game (so thank you for explaining about it), but wouldn't a special character of the same kind be unique (or limited I think they call it) meaning that you can only have one in play?


The unit was Troll Slayers, which is not unique. So far only units with the Hero keyword appear to be unique, and there are only a couple per faction deck. Even the Bloodthirster is not unique (though there's only one copy in the Core Set).

mads b. wrote:
And a related question just out of curiosity: how many duplicates (or triplicates) does the core game hold? Just a rough estimate, if you have one. Personally I believe that introducing the game will be easier with a few dupes since that's fewer cards one has to read.


There are 220 cards total, with about 131 unique, broken down as follows (doing this from memory, so it may not be perfect):

1-25: Dwarf
26-50: Empire
51-55: High Elf
56-80: Orc
81-105: Chaos
106-110: Dark Elf
111-127: Neutrals
128-131: Draft-related cards

So the Dwarf deck, for example, has 40 cards total of 25 types. So there's a few with 3 copies, a couple with 2 copies, and the rest unique.
mads l. brynnum
Denmark
2400 Kbh. NV
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
patron05060708
mbmbmbmb
Cool, thanks for clearing things up.
Brian Bankler
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron06070809
mbmbmbmbmb
I've fixed the cost, as to others.

If 3 is indeed the limit, that means that you only need 3 boxes to have a "complete" set (enough to build any single legal deck). That would be nice. I was told "5", but didn't read the rules.

I suppose they could be hammers. That makes sense. I just referred to them as "Power."
Peter Hall
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
patron09
mbmbmbmb
Bankler wrote:
You can have up to 5 (3? Unsure, see below) copies of a card in a deck, but each game only has 1 or 3 copies. Most criminal (in my mind), there are only 24 'neutral' cards (1-3 copies of each), but you'll probably want some for your Orc Deck, some for your Empire Deck, etc etc (assuming you wanted to build a few decks for your friends to play with, and not just one great deck for tournament play).


The deck-limit is indeed 3, which makes the game pretty affordable. You pay $120 (retail) for a playset; a playset of a similarly sized Magic set is going to cost you about $800 (retail, with even distribution). There are only two neutral cards that are one-per-box (and you'll probably play one or the other, but not both, in most decks); so, you should be able to have *two* complete, tournament-level decks (one of each side) out of three boxes.

Bankler wrote:
...while there is some ability to come back from a poor start, I suspect that games will be decided by speed and steamrolling more often than not in games like the ones we played where you just take a base deck and shuffle in a few random neutral cards.



Actually, I think the game generally slows down a bit with constructed decks. Most of the cards you can add by throwing another set into the mix are big, expensive guys rather than cards that are going to speed up the game. Orcs are by far the fastest faction, and they still usually need four or five battlefield phases to get the kill, even when all is going well. In the games we've played, we've had games go four turns (per player) and games go to ten or twelve turns, and that's with the same decks.

Edit: Quote Tags
Last edited on 2009-08-21 01:10:55 CST (Total Number of Edits: 2)
Kevin Seachrist
United States

Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
I was an MtG junkie. Heck, I was even a Game of Thrones junkie to an extent, and WoW:TCG after that. I easily racked up $150+ within a week or two of release, then shelled out more for singles and even more packs in the weeks that followed.

The big issue to a CCG, especially if you want to play competitively vs casually in a constructed format, is you really need either a lot (all) the cards or you're willing to shell out a chunk of cash or do extensive trading for particular cards to complete a deck strategy. Since your strategies can change frequently, and because you can never guarantee that you'll have all your desired cards no matter how many packs you buy, you quickly feel yourself sliding toward a bottomless pit, and your wallet falls in before you do.

My only dilemma with WH:I is: one box or two? One is going to make for fun drafting games and casual games (where having fun greatly outweighs the desire to build the better deck and win with it), because of the randomness of when good cards appear. Two boxes will give me a bit more control in deckbuilding for semi-casual play (having fun and outbuilding your opponents are about on par), and will actually cap quite a few of the cards at the 3 per deck limit. The most shiny of the cards will still be at 2 instead of 3, though, and that's a limitation for tournament quality play (the goal of winning greatly outshines the nobler goal of having fun).

There's also balance in the set. No one lucks into the one runaway broken rare card that wins every game in which it appears, and is worth half a box of boosters.

That's really the final point where LCG and CCG are not synonymous or a difference solely of semantics: you know exactly what your money is buying with an LCG. Spoiler lists are manifests, not lists of what might be in your box. That distinction can't be emphasized strongly enough.

I'm not planning on playing at tournament level, but I do like deckbuilding. $80 for a game that offers rich deckbuilding possibilities, not to mention enough cards at that point for 4 people to play, is certainly worth it. Knowing everything I'm getting, and that the contents are balanced and fair makes this even more of a bargain.
Ed Browne
United States
Terre Haute
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'll be honest that I'm not a huge fan of this game after playing it. However, I will be getting a copy for no other reason than the cool, ground-braking draft variant that is included with the game. It makes this game appeal to the deck building fan in me as well as makes the base set much more replayable.

The basics are this:

1. You separate all the "good" and "evil" cards into two decks and shuffle, adding special draft variant cards into the decks.

2. Each person takes one deck and draws the top (I think it is) 15 cards. They choose one and pass the rest to their opponent, who chooses one to take out (the original player doesn't get to use that card for their deck).

3. Do this until you are out of cards 4 times and create your deck from what you have been able to keep. The special draft variant cards will allow you to draw more or less cards or other effects on yours or your opponents drafting.

I think this is a great concept and definitely adds to the replay value of the base set as well as good training in deck building.

Has anyone else tried this yet?
Brian Bankler
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
patron06070809
mbmbmbmbmb
Grimstax wrote:
They choose one and pass the rest to their opponent, who chooses one to take out (the original player doesn't get to use that card for their deck).

The drafter gets 2 cards, not one. Then the denier gets 1. The rules are oddly worded, but I think you effectively keep 10, deny 5 (out of each fifteen) five times. But another reading is keep 8 deny 7. That would make a forty card deck.

We haven't tried it yet, though
Ed Browne
United States
Terre Haute
Indiana
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bankler wrote:
Grimstax wrote:
They choose one and pass the rest to their opponent, who chooses one to take out (the original player doesn't get to use that card for their deck).

The drafter gets 2 cards, not one. Then the denier gets 1. The rules are oddly worded, but I think you effectively keep 10, deny 5 (out of each fifteen) five times. But another reading is keep 8 deny 7. That would make a forty card deck.

We haven't tried it yet, though


Thanks for clearing that up. I don't have the game and was going from memory.
Kevin Seachrist
United States

Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
MitchCJ wrote:
Kevin,

I really like how you made your points; very well written. I agree with you on many levels, however I just burned on CCG's and anything that 'requires' a monthly purchase, even further, multiple purchases of the same item on a monthly basis is a huge turn off for me and falls under my (vs the) umbrella definition of a CCG. Granted, all games are collectible to some degree, in this situation it is the frequency and multiple purchases of identical items that galls me.

I will say the game looks stunning though. I will window shop for now.


Thanks! Well, I'd love to argue the "requires" point, but having been a CCG'er, I know the siren call when I hear it. My group is actually thinking of instituting an agreement to only buy one pack of each mini-expansion and one base game each, or, if we buy more, not to build any single deck with more than the cards from one "copy" of the game or its expansions, since not all of us, possibly including me, can afford the investment.

I hate CCG's when they turn into who has the biggest wallet. Constructed formats in tourneys, particularly if sets fall out of rotation, are exactly that: biggest library wins. Skill goes a long way, but buying two boxes of boosters to your opponents' one box is a huge advantage.

I've window-shopped games like Call of Cthulhu and the LCG version of Game of Thrones (I played the older CCG for a while), but this one is just too pretty and the core mechanic just too fun for me to pass up. Plus it's not multiple editions along with a player base that knows thousands of cards inside out and can therefore out-metagame me.
Gary Bradley
United Kingdom
Unspecified
Scotland
flag msg tools
Rykaar wrote:
I'm not planning on playing at tournament level, but I do like deckbuilding. $80 for a game that offers rich deckbuilding possibilities, not to mention enough cards at that point for 4 people to play, is certainly worth it. Knowing everything I'm getting, and that the contents are balanced and fair makes this even more of a bargain.


May I recommend Blue Moon to you. It's an awesome LCG well worth checking out. My lengthy review on this site is here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/162375

And yes I am a Magic junkie. Though I only play the online game these days. Much better.
Kevin Seachrist
United States

Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Already own it plus a few of the initial expansions. Yes, it's quite good, but lacks the elaborate mechanics of a good meaty CCG, at least for me. I'd put Blue Moon more on the Dominion level (yes, that comparison is tenuous at best--they're very different sorts of games).

Warhammer's appeal to me, among other things, was getting in at the ground floor to something I know is going to be expanded rather heavily, but like Blue Moon, will have non-random card expansions so I'm not wasting money buying booster packs stuffed with cards I already have ten of or don't really even want one of.

Last edited on 2009-09-04 14:15:59 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Rick Teverbaugh
United States
Anderson
Indiana
flag msg tools
mbmb
I love the concept of paying just $10 per month to stay caught up on all the cards. If there's a monthly set of 40 cards where I just need to have another set, that's still just $20 or about five booster packs for any other CCG. That's still a bargain. Eric Lang is a brilliant designer in my book and I'm going to play this one if I can get players in central Indiana.
Brad Miller
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
040506070809
mbmbmbmbmb
Actually it would be $30 a month to have a complete play set of all the cards, (assuming W:I follows the distribution numbers of the CoC LCG) as you get cards in the monthly packs in a 10x1 10x3 setup, (which also means you will have 10x3x2 cards you can't use).
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | DMCA | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
BoardGameGeek and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.