I was wondering if anyone could help me pick out some good multiplayer games. My extended family lives close and we get together fairly regularly, and usually the game is Risk because well, it's Risk. This is fine, except I'm finding Risk to be a little dull (although the LOTR edition adds a little) and the other common game, Lionheart, though fast-paced is strategically lacking (Plus it's embarrassing to be regularly beaten by 10 year-old, either due to poor rolls or because I left my damn king open for the hundredth time).

SO, I guess I'm looking for something in the 3-5 (sometimes more) player range, and complex but not to complicated rulewise. Er, sorry about the vague requirements. Diplomacy looks nice, but what I've read about it makes it seem like you have 7 players. I literally just picked up Axis and Allies and am somewhat dubious as to whether or not it'll be useable (but I haven't played a game yet, so it may be perfect, who knows). I've had my eye on A Game of Thrones for awhile, and it looks like it might work (plus I love the novels), and I've heard good things about Settlers of Cataan, but of course I've never played either.

We used to play Magic and Heroscape, so card-games and minatures are also applicable. My sister's expressed interest in "Killer Bunnies" "Deadly Bunnies" or something.

Well I'm also pretty new here but I have had a similar experience with Axis and Allies. I also bought Diplomacy and am trying to trade it now because I couldn't find anybody interested in playing it. It just seemed to in depth and I think you really need 7 players to make it work.

You really can't go wrong with Settlers of Catan. Everybody seems to at least like enough to play it. It doesn't have the war theme, of course, but I believe the expansions add a little bit of that element.

Settler's and Ticket to Ride are considered the ultimate "gateway" games.
I'm sure your group will enjoy it.

I am also new here, but I have experience with both Diplomacy and Axis and Allies. Both are great games, but IMHO you MUST have seven to play an interesting game of Diplomacy and Axis and Allies is only good with 4 - 2 players. If you are looking for a good game for 5 or more, try Shadows Over Camelot. I agree that Settlers and Ticket to Ride are also good choices.

Besides needing 7 players to play a real game of Diplomacy, you also need at least 4 or 5 hours, which is hard to find. So I recommend the following games to get your family away from Risk and into games that are more fun and far more interesting:

1) Settlers of Catan: This only plays with 3 or 4 players, but works well with either number. It takes about an hour, and is not too complicated. It involves a lot of trading and negotiating, so is very interactive. There's a fair amount of luck, but it should balance out in the long run.

2) Ticket to Ride: This plays with anywhere from 2 to 5 players, and works well with anything from 2 to 5. The rules are even simpler than Settlers, so I think it's really the ideal gateway game into eurogaming. It involves collecting different color cards to claim different routes across the US (or Europe if you get the Europe version, but I'd start with the US version), in order to connect different cities, to complete your destination tickets.

3) Carcassonne: This is one of my personal favorites. It's a tile-laying game, actually THE tile-laying game in my opinion. It doesn't cost that much, but plays with anywhere from 2 to 6 players. I personally love it with only 2, but it works fine with more. Tile-laying games are great to introduce people to Eurogames because it's often very different from anything they've seen before, so it intrigues them, but they're not at all complicated, they're actually quite intuitive. That is to say, the rules aren't that complicated, the strategy can be very involved, especially after you add one of the relatively cheap expansion sets.

I'd start with those three games. After that you can branch out and try Alhambra, Niagara, Bohnanaza, and many many more

If you like conquest games, our group always like History of the World. It goes fast and it has enough twists with the option cards to keep it intersting. The game is almost never decided before the last epoch.

There are 5 powers, it plays fine with anything from 2 to 5...with maybe 2 or 5 being best (depending on if you prefer head-to-head or 2 teams putting their collective thinking caps together better)

Some people are a bit too finnicky about the # of players...

Anyway...have fun with Axis & Allies...you'll enjoy it I'm sure

I played Risk as a kid, but once I played A&A...I never played Risk again

It's like going from checkers to chess

"Wow what do the horsies do!"

Settlers Expansions play with 6 ...China Wall is easily the best.
Elfenland
Tongiaki
Attika plays 6 - just buy 2 games.
5th avenue
Majaraja
El Grande

Don't pass up considering a Columbia game. They're 'block' games, so you have a thrilling "fog-of-war" element of not being able to see your opponent's exact units or strength until you engage them.

They have several great 2-player games (Hammer of the Scots), and for 3 players, I'd encourage you to look at Napoleon. The Columbia games web site is http://www.columbiagames.com. You can't go wrong with either game.

I'd stay away from Diplomacy at this point. You really need 5-7 players to have a blast, and if any of the players is a sore loser or takes back-stabbing personally, they won't play again. Find some players, develop good gaming relationships, and THEN play Diplomacy after no one will take the inevitable betrayal as a personal judgement.

Tell us more about what you want out of a game, and about how receptive your family is to games.

Are you looking for a war theme or game with alot of conflict? How well did Heroscape work?

Without knowing more, I will echo the above recommendations for Ticket to Ride, Settlers of Catan, and Carcassonne. Those are all great games with wide appeal.

Risk and Lionheart are both strategic wargames. Diplomacy, Axis & Allies and A Game of Thrones are all strategic wargames as well, so they might resonate for your family on that level. However, Diplomacy really does require seven players for best effect. Likewise, A Game of Thrones doesn't scale that well. You really need 5 to get a good game (or 6 with the expansion). Some AGOT devotees like to play with 3 or 4, but it really isn't as good a game. When playing with more than two players, Axis & Allies is played in teams, so it does scale very well. Since you already have it, I'd say your best bet is to give it a go. Bear in mind, though, that all of these games are a big step up in difficulty from Risk. While a classic, Diplomacy is also noted for breaking up friendships.

Settlers of Catan is a good light game (too light for many geeks, but you are looking for something to play with your family). For about a decade, it was many groups' favoured gateway game. These days, Ticket To Ride may well have taken over as the most favoured gateway game.

Killer Bunnies is a humour game. The strategic element is not at all strong, and you may find that you tire of it once the joke wears thin.

For something Magic-like without the hassle of collecting, you could check out Blue Moon. (I wasn't terribly impressed with it, but you might like it.) I'm a little surprised that you "used to" play Heroscape, as that's a relatively new game. Amongst the newer games of a similar category are Doom: the Boardgame and Descent: Journeys Into the Dark (or something like that). I have played Doom and quite enjoyed it. It has obvious balance issues, but these aren't hard to correct. I haven't played Descent, but I understand that it is a fantasy miniatures boardgame using the same basic engine as Doom. You might like to check them out.

Just to clarify, when I said Axis and Allies was only good with 2 - 4 players I meant it. Personally I can't stand being just the Russians and would never subject anyone to it. Just my opinion, but if you have 5 players one will get stuck with Russia and won't have very much fun.

Thanks for the recommendations everyone, they've been really helpful. It looks like Settlers of Catan is a good choice, which works because I know I've seen it at the local hobby shop so it'll be simple to get. Most of the items I'd have to purchase online, which is fine, but still it'd be nice if 95% of the shop wasn't miniatures. And I re-read the Axis and Allies rules and now have no idea what scared me about it before, so it should be fine too.

I'm not sure why we stopped playing Heroscape, it seems like the guy forgot to bring it one day and nobody really noticed so that was the end of that. Anyway, I don't think a war game is absolutely neccesary, nor a game that has to have a lot of conflict, but obviously those things would help to keep people interested. We have occasionally played things like International Rummy and Melle...Milli.... that old french car(d) racing game.

Well, if you try Ticket to Ride or Settlers of Catan, and are like most of us, you will find just how interesting a game can be, even without much direct conflict.

Ticket to Ride has some competition for routes, but until someone starts playing very agressively, there are almost always other ways. The game is mostly about deciding how to use the resources available, and there's just enough worry that someone else is about to pounce on a track section to make you want to play your cards now, even though you know it is better to wait a few more turns.

Settlers of Catan is interesting because you won't be able to get all the resources you need on your own. You will need to trade with other players to get the job done. There is alot of competition for the best placements, but little actual conflict.

You might try one of the theater based A&A versions instead of the full-blown version. I've played A&A Europe a couple of times and found it much more fun than the full blown A&A. I think it was the focus on one theater that made it more palatable for me.

Settlers was a big hit amongst my friends, with Carc not really as much (although I'm starting to think that Carc might be better with no more than 3 players to cut down on downtime). TTR is pretty fun and easy also.

I also bought Diplomacy and am trying to trade it now because I couldn't find anybody interested in playing it. It just seemed to in depth and I think you really need 7 players to make it work.

Google Diplomacy 2000, GREAT PBEM website.

Killer Bunnies can be a lot of fun, but if you are going to play with 5 or 6 people, the game can start to get very long. I prefer it with four people personally. We had a group playing with 8 a few weeks ago and it lasted just over 3 hours. That's a long time for a goofy card game.

If you're looking for something complex, then Ticket to Ride and Carcassonne probably aren't the way to go...

I have the Hunters & Gatherers version of Carcassonne, and if regular Carc is anything like it...then it'll probably be too darn light...

Ticket to Ride especially...is more of a game to play with grandma than anything complex or strategic...

And Axis & Allies kicks ass! I don't imagine you'll be playing Risk again any time soon

It should take maybe 6 hours to play though...although if you have the new revised edition, then you can shorten the playing time...

Someone recommended Axis & Allies: Europe...I haven't played that one, a lot of people love the Pacific version, but I wouldn't recommend the D-Day version to anyone. It takes the troop purchasing out of your hands, which eliminates a lot of the planning ahead and strategy that I loved about Axis & Allies. What if I just go nuts and buy all battleships? I could do it if I wanted to!

Here's a list of all the games in this thread that have been mentioned, with at least 10 weight ratings. Since what seems to be the most important element that you're looking for is the right complexity (enough to be strategically interesting, but not enough to be confusing), this might interest you:

============
MEDIUM HEAVY
============
3.65 Diplomacy
3.55 A Game of Thrones
3.40 Hammer of the Scots

======
MEDIUM
======
3.30 Maharaja: Palace Building in India
3.29 El Grande
3.12 History of the World
3.00 Magic: The Gathering
2.67 Doom

============
LIGHT MEDIUM
============
2.56 Axis & Allies (Revised Edition)
2.42 Attika
2.38 Axis and Allies: Europe
2.27 Shadows Over Camelot
2.21 Elfenland
2.19 Settlers of Catan
2.13 HeroScape
2.12 Blue Moon
1.98 Risk
1.96 Niagara
1.93 Alhambra
1.92 Ticket to Ride: Europe
1.82 Carcassonne
1.80 Tongiaki

=====
LIGHT
=====
1.73 Ticket to Ride
1.57 Bohnanza
1.17 Mille Bornes

I agree that T2R is a good bet. Samurai, Blokus (best with 4), Loco!, and Boomtown would all work well with the right extended family group. Different genres than what you've been playing, but all are fun, relatively short games with easy rules that require interesting decisions. Samurai and Blokus max out at 4. Through the Desert might be a Samurai alternative if you routinely have 5. I've bought but haven't yet played Razzia and Cartagena, so I can't vouch for them based on experience, but both look like they might fit your niche well.