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Race for the Galaxy: The Brink of War» Forums » Rules

Subject: Weirdest rules interaction yet (for me) rss

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J P
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I thought I had a good grasp on race's rules, but it turns out I still get surprised.

I'm playing Keldon's AI and have ample military, Imperium Invasion Fleet and Casus Belli in my tableau.
My opponent has Trading Outpost and Terraforming Engineers.

During a settle phase don't choose to settle a card and then declare a takeover on my opponents Trading Outpost.

However, he replaces his Trading Outpost with Federatio Capital and the takeover fails.

My question: Does Keldon's AI resolve things in the correct order? Should the takeover fail? In which order do the takeover powers get declared, in which order do they get resolved?

Here is how Keldon's AI handles it:
Quote:
Red pays 2.
Red develops Terraforming Engineers.
Blue uses Interstellar Casus Belli to attempt takeover of Trading Outpost.
Blue discards Imperium Invasion Fleet.
Red pays 0 for Deserted Alien World.
Red replaces Trading Outpost with Federation Capital.
Blue fails to takeover Trading Outpost.


Also I do not get awarded the 2 prestige points for discarding IIF. Is the prestige point award tied to the successful resolution of the rest of the power?

Please, help!


PS: I rewound the game and tried to take over another grey world eligible to be replaced using terraforming engineers. AI still replaced Trading Outpost with Galactic Federation, so either the rules didn't allow the AI to respond to my takeover target declaration or simply didn't play well.
 
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Børge N
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No. Keldon's AI handles this scenario incorrectly.

In fact, this scenario isn't covered in the rules either, but you can find out how it should be resolved in the Race FAQ or my Comprehensive script.

If everything else about the takeover is O.K. (vulnerability, military strength etc), you should take over the world, and the opponent should keep his replacement world (Federation Capital).
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Børge N
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thirteenthirtyseven wrote:
Also I do not get awarded the 2 prestige points for discarding IIF. Is the prestige point award tied to the successful resolution of the rest of the power?


Yes. To earn Prestige, the takeover must be successful, so this at least was handled correctly.
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Serge
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borgemik wrote:
If everything else about the takeover is O.K. (vulnerability, military strength etc), you should take over the world, and the opponent should keep his replacement world (Federation Capital).

Just to clarify the wording, by "keep" we mean the replacement world goes back to his hand.

Also here's some clarification on the whole issue:
Tom Lehmann wrote:
If a takeover attempt is pending against the target of the replacement power, the replacement is announced but its resolution is delayed until the takeover is resolved. If the takeover fails, perform the replacement. Otherwise, the proposed replacement fails (and is returned to its owner's hand). Note that the proposed replacement world is not a card capable of being discarded for temporary Military on defense (assuming the defender has such powers).
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J P
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Thanks for the helpful answers.

Funnily enough, the question seemed to have been instigated by Keldon himself and yet his AI handles it differently.
Don't get me wrong! I love the program and I am ever so grateful for the joy it has brought me!!
 
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Keldon Jones
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thirteenthirtyseven wrote:
Funnily enough, the question seemed to have been instigated by Keldon himself and yet his AI handles it differently.
Don't get me wrong! I love the program and I am ever so grateful for the joy it has brought me!!

Yeah, the correct way to handle it was unexpected, and requires a lot of state tracking which I don't have. I do plan on fixing it eventually, but I suspect it rarely comes into play. It hasn't been a big priority.
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J P
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mrkeldon wrote:

Yeah, the correct way to handle it was unexpected, and requires a lot of state tracking which I don't have. I do plan on fixing it eventually, but I suspect it rarely comes into play. It hasn't been a big priority.




Nothing to worry about. In all the games I played it happened once. I think it's fabulous.
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Aaron Clark
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Interstellar Casus Belli has two bugs.

1. The computer opponents can take over your peaceful planets using ICB, although you cannot use ICB to take over the computer's peaceful planets. (The card says that it can only be used to take over military planets.)

2. ICB does not give the human player two prestige points when you use it successfully to take over an oppponent's planet. I am not entirely sure, but I believe it does give a computer opponent the two prestige points.

I disable takeovers when playing The Brink of War because of the first bug, and the second bug makes it [edit: it meaning ICB] much less interesting to play.
 
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aaronclarkmo wrote:
Interstellar Casus Belli has two bugs.

1. The computer opponents can take over your peaceful planets using ICB, although you cannot use ICB to take over the computer's peaceful planets. (The card says that it can only be used to take over military planets.)

Are you aware that comboing ICB with Imperium Invasion Fleet enables taking over peaceful planets? That's likely what was happening.
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ackmondual
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aaronclarkmo wrote:
Interstellar Casus Belli has two bugs.

2. ICB does not give the human player two prestige points when you use it successfully to take over an oppponent's planet. I am not entirely sure, but I believe it does give a computer opponent the two prestige points.


If possible, please post a screenshot. I'm not able to reproduce this bug from natural game events, nor using debug tool to set this up.

entranced wrote:
aaronclarkmo wrote:
Interstellar Casus Belli has two bugs.

1. The computer opponents can take over your peaceful planets using ICB, although you cannot use ICB to take over the computer's peaceful planets. (The card says that it can only be used to take over military planets.)

Are you aware that comboing ICB with Imperium Invasion Fleet enables taking over peaceful planets? That's likely what was happening.


That's what I would ask. On a semi-related note, I tried it vs an AI opponent and that bug where IIF doesn't get discarded from tableau is gone.
 
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Aaron Clark
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entranced wrote:
aaronclarkmo wrote:
Interstellar Casus Belli has two bugs.

1. The computer opponents can take over your peaceful planets using ICB, although you cannot use ICB to take over the computer's peaceful planets. (The card says that it can only be used to take over military planets.)

Are you aware that comboing ICB with Imperium Invasion Fleet enables taking over peaceful planets? That's likely what was happening.


I wasn't aware of this, so that might be the case.

I haven't tried to use ICB to take anything over in a while, but I will see if I can try it again. I just remember a couple of games where I used ICB several times to perform takeovers and I found myself running out of prestige points when you should come out even.
 
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Tom Lehmann
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aaronclarkmo wrote:
entranced wrote:
Are you aware that comboing ICB with Imperium Invasion Fleet enables taking over peaceful planets?

I wasn't aware of this, so that might be the case.

Brink of War rules, page 7, takeover notes.
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Nolan Lichti
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Race for the Galaxy: The Brink of War » Forums » Rules
Re: Weirdest rules interaction yet (for me)
aaronclarkmo wrote:
I haven't tried to use ICB to take anything over in a while, but I will see if I can try it again. I just remember a couple of games where I used ICB several times to perform takeovers and I found myself running out of prestige points when you should come out even.

If your takeovers succeed everytime, you should come out ahead. If they are failing, you will come out behind. 50/50 split, and you'll be even.

Remember that it costs 1 prestige to attempt the takeover, regardless of whether it is successful or not. If you are successful, you should receive 2 back for a net gain of 1.
 
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