$10.00
Recommend
9 
 Thumb up
 Hide
34 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Thunderstone Advance: Towers of Ruin» Forums » General

Subject: Compatibility of old cards with the new rules rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Marcos
msg tools
There's been a lot of talk as to what cards are compatible with Thunderstone Advance. I thought I'd look through my collection and see which cards seem to have compatibility issues.

Heroes
Diin References Militia
Dwarf References Edged Weapons
Half-Orc References Food
Krell References Militia
Nightblade References Edged Weapons
Outlands References Food
Thyrian. References Food. References Militia


Of the heroes I noted above, the ones that references food or edged weapons are outdated because those cards aren't in your starting deck any more and likely won't be available from the village.

For heroes that reference militia, they may still be used, just have those cards affect regulars as if they were militia.

I should also note that none of the old heroes have a race, while new heroes do. New cards may affect race, such as Dwarven Bear Hammer, which allows dwarves to equip it even if they don't meet the strength requirement.

Monsters
Abyssal Battle Keyword
Abyssal Malformed Battle Keyword. References Food. References Militia.
Abyssal Thunderspawn Battle Keyword. References Archers
Basilisk Animal Battle Keyword
Cultist Humanoid Battle Keyword. References Militia.
Dark Enchanted Battle Keyword. References Edged Weapons. References Militia. References Archer
Doomknight Humanoid Battle Keyword
Doppelganger Humanoid Battle Keyword. References Militia
Dragon Battle Keyword. References Militia
Elemental Fire Battle Keyword
Elemental Nature Battle Keyword
Elemental Pain Battle Keyword. References Militia
Evil Druid Battle Keyword
Giant Battle Keyword
Hydra Battle Keyword
Lizardfolk Humanoid Battle Keyword. References Dagger. References Militia
Ooze References Food. References Edged weapon. References Militia
Orc Humanoid Battle Keyword
Raider Humanoid Battle Keyword
Seige References Militia
Spider Animal Battle Keyword
The Swarm Animal Battle keyword
Undead Doom Battle Keyword
Undead Lich Battle keyword
Undead Plague Battle keyword
Undead Spectral References Food
Undead Spirit Battle keyword. References Militia
Undead Stormwraith Battle keyword
Verminfolk Animal Battle keyword. References Militia


For monsters, the ones that refer to edged weapons and food are also outdated, since those are no longer part of your deck and likely won't be available for purchase from the village. This can lead to problems with a monster like Will-O-The-Wisp, which states that it can not be defeated unless you first destroy a food item from your hand.

For cards that reference militia, just have them affect Regulars. Same with cards that reference archers. "Ranger" is now replacing "archer."

The keyword "battle" now has new meaning under the new rules, and you should make sure you can distinguish what is meant when and old card says "battle" (which is now "aftermath") and when a new card says "battle." I might avoid using these cards if new players are playing since seeing two instances of the same keyword have different meaning would likely be confusing to new players.

Village
Drill Sergeant References Militia
Elite Militia References Militia
Highland Officer References Militia
Short Bow References Archer
Short Spear References Militia
Trainer References Militia


None of the village cards have a significant problem with the new rules. Just have the cards that reference militia affect regulars, and cards that reference archers affect rangers.

Conclusion:
Out of the 51 hero groups, 5 reference cards that are no longer part of the starting deck, and 2 have terminology problems.

Out of the 37 Monster groups, 5 reference cards that are no longer part of the starting deck, and 24 have terminology problems.

Out of the 91 Village groups, none reference cards that are no longer part of the starting deck, and 6 have terminology problems

7 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Metzler
United States
Round Lake Beach
Illinois
flag msg tools
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?"
badge
"Wuhhh... I think so, Brain, but if a ham can operate a radio, why can't a pig set a VCR?"
mbmbmbmbmb
What makes you think food and edged weapons will be gone?

Food is not gone forever. You will be able to buy food, and you can still use the old sets to put food in the Village.

Edged Weapons are far from gone...no worries there.

The dagger may be your only concern...
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcos
msg tools
Food and edged weapons aren't gone, but they are no longer in your starting deck, which is troublesome for the cards that reference them. For example, the basic idea with nightblade was simply to buy that hero and combo it with the daggers already in your deck. That hero isn't anywhere near as effective if you don't have daggers available to you.

As a second example, look at the monster group ooze. The basic idea behind those monsters is to punish players that attack with cards in the basic deck. That is, with edged weapons(daggers), with food (iron rations), or with militia. Part of their victory point budget took that into account. Now that the starting deck has changed, their respective texts are much more irrelevant.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Wootton
Scotland
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmb
otherguy2k wrote:
As a second example, look at the monster group ooze. The basic idea behind those monsters is to punish players that attack with cards in the basic deck. That is, with edged weapons(daggers), with food (iron rations), or with militia. Part of their victory point budget took that into account. Now that the starting deck has changed, their respective texts are much more irrelevant.


Actually, most people I know see oozes' effects as a bonus when it comes to starting cards, and only a penalty where it affects purchased cards. Look at Red Jelly. I get 2 XPs, get rid of the dagger and I can now rest a torch out of my deck without losing any light capability. In 99% of games, the loss of the dagger is a boon not a penalty. The same with the other oozes and basic card types. They are almost always attacked preferentially precisely because they destroy these cards, not because of a penalty.

Mark
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcos
msg tools
Yeah, your right about ooze. The point I was trying to make was that most of the cards seem perfectly fine. Some have terminology problems, and a few might have balance problems now that they try and interact with cards that are no longer in the starting deck. Those are the ones I highlighted red.

Anyway, I edited the "conclusion" part of my post to use more appropriate wording.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Leber
Canada
Orillia
ON
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
otherguy2k wrote:
Yeah, your right about ooze. The point I was trying to make was that most of the cards seem perfectly fine. Some have terminology problems, and a few might have balance problems now that they try and interact with cards that are no longer in the starting deck. Those are the ones I highlighted red.

Anyway, I edited the "conclusion" part of my post to use more appropriate wording.


Yeah, I don't see any problems with most of them. I don't buy Dwarves with my daggers in mind. I start buying weapons along with Dwarves. Sure, daggers come in handy sometimes, but I don't consider them in most of my strategies.

Same goes with iron rations... they could be a nice boost on occasion, particularly with some of the fighters, but generally I found them crap. Now I'll just have to buy more feasts, etc...

I have no doubt it will change the dynamic a bit, but this change affects everyone equally, and I see no compatibility problems.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Larouche
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
flag msg tools
Melting souls with cuteness since 2007
badge
Lovin' N-16
mbmbmbmbmb
The compatiblity issues are annoying some more than others, but most of them can be easily corrected.

A little house-rule to make militia = regular for card effects would solve all those old cards that reference militia. I doubt it's going to be a big change there in the gameplay.

Add the old daggers to all village set-ups. Maybe have one more set of cards for the village, being always the dagger. This would insure the presence of an edged weapon in all games for the dwarf and nightblade to work with. I don't think it would throw the game out of whack to have the puny dagger added as another card as barely anyone buys those.
Now that there won't be those cards in the starting deck, maybe people will buy a couple of them in the early game to make them work with those heroes if they are present.

The food issue is annoying. But then, maybe adding the iron rations the same way as the dagger in the village, for all games? The heroes using them would no longer be a problem. The monsters referencing them already affected the food only if they came up. So if you have any kind of food item in play, they will still be used.

The battle effect for old cards that isn't the same as the new cards is very annoying. Couldn't they have used a "before battle" keyword (or something like that) instead of mixing the language like that?

Same thing with changing archer to ranger. There seems to be only two/three cards type that reference them, so it might not be a "biggie", but still...

Also, now that there's no longer a rank 0... what do we do with the old guardians? We stop using them? Maybe we'll still house-rule a rank 0 presence for the guardians.

As i've said in another thread... there's nothing that's a *big* issue for compatibility. But it's trully annoying to have to "fix" the compatibility like that by ourselves.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Leber
Canada
Orillia
ON
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
deedob wrote:
A little house-rule to make militia = regular for card effects would solve all those old cards that reference militia. I doubt it's going to be a big change there in the gameplay.


Seems straight forward to me. In fact, if Regulars end up being more valuable than militia (which they seem to be), then monsters that destroy militia will end up making for a more interesting decision... which I like.


deedob wrote:

But it's trully annoying to have to "fix" the compatibility like that by ourselves.


But that's just the thing... it's not a fix, because it's not remotely broken. It's a personal preference that some people can tweak if they feel so inclined.

So what if a hero references food, and you have to buy it from the village instead of having it in your starting hand? There are cards that reference spells too, and there was never a guarantee you'd have a spell in your hand, or even in the village at all for that matter.

So you're either a player who was okay with those variables, or you're the type that would tweak your setup to your liking anyways.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Orlando Neto
Brazil
Rio das Ostras
Rio de Janeiro
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
For me the big compatibility problem is the new layout. It's like you are mixing two diferent games.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Leber
Canada
Orillia
ON
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
topera wrote:
For me the big compatibility problem is the new layout. It's like you are mixing two diferent games.


Not sure what you mean. Can you clarify?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Larouche
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
flag msg tools
Melting souls with cuteness since 2007
badge
Lovin' N-16
mbmbmbmbmb
Holmes108 wrote:
deedob wrote:
A little house-rule to make militia = regular for card effects would solve all those old cards that reference militia. I doubt it's going to be a big change there in the gameplay.


Seems straight forward to me. In fact, if Regulars end up being more valuable than militia (which they seem to be), then monsters that destroy militia will end up making for a more interesting decision... which I like.


deedob wrote:

But it's trully annoying to have to "fix" the compatibility like that by ourselves.


But that's just the thing... it's not a fix, because it's not remotely broken. It's a personal preference that some people can tweak if they feel so inclined.

So what if a hero references food, and you have to buy it from the village instead of having it in your starting hand? There are cards that reference spells too, and there was never a guarantee you'd have a spell in your hand, or even in the village at all for that matter.

So you're either a player who was okay with those variables, or you're the type that would tweak your setup to your liking anyways.


My whole impression is that Advance is a reboot of the series.
The old cards might work to a degree now, but the focus seems to be for the new cards and the old ones will be forgotten over time.

The compatibility issues are minor now... but give Advance a couple more inevitable expansions and the compatibility problems will get more and more pronounced.

And there ARE broken cards now. If playing by the strict rules, a militia is not a regular. Any card that reference the militias have text that simply cannot work now. We HAVE to customize our game to our liking, as you say, just to make those cards work again. So yes, we have to put a "fix" to use the old cards.

It IS minor though... for now. I have a funny feeling it won't in a year or two...
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Larouche
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
flag msg tools
Melting souls with cuteness since 2007
badge
Lovin' N-16
mbmbmbmbmb
Holmes108 wrote:
topera wrote:
For me the big compatibility problem is the new layout. It's like you are mixing two diferent games.


Not sure what you mean. Can you clarify?


The old cards are not the same color, the icons have morphed and some of them have changed location on the cards.

It really feels as if the new cards belong to a different game and i can understand him on that.

The new layout IS better than the old one, but it's yet another compatibility issue (though it's only cosmetic) with the old set.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Leber
Canada
Orillia
ON
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
deedob wrote:
Holmes108 wrote:
topera wrote:
For me the big compatibility problem is the new layout. It's like you are mixing two diferent games.


Not sure what you mean. Can you clarify?


The old cards are not the same color, the icons have morphed and some of them have changed location on the cards.

It really feels as if the new cards belong to a different game and i can understand him on that.

The new layout IS better than the old one, but it's yet another compatibility issue (though it's only cosmetic) with the old set.


Ah, wasn't sure what you meant by layout. You mean the visual look of everything? Yeah, I can kind of see that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Edward Bolme
United States
Charlotte
North Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
mbmbmbmbmb
Let's be clear on a few things.

Archers did not become rangers. Archers were removed. Rangers were added. This will be explained in detail on the TS blog shortly.

Only one icon changed: the weight/strength icon. The light icon got larger, but it is the same art. Other icons were added that we're not there before, to make it easier to play.

Only one icon moved: the light icon. On second thought, the level moved, too.

We specifically designed the dungeon side of the game board with space for Rank 0.

Each of these was taken with careful deliberation, and with input from some of the biggest TS fans out there who have given countless hours of their time to help us make this better.

So while there are changes to the starting deck that impact a few heroes early on, the net result will be a gain.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will M. Baker
United States
Alameda
California
flag msg tools
designer
Holmes108 wrote:
I don't buy Dwarves with my daggers in mind. I start buying weapons along with Dwarves. Sure, daggers come in handy sometimes, but I don't consider them in most of my strategies.

Same goes with iron rations... they could be a nice boost on occasion, particularly with some of the fighters, but generally I found them crap. Now I'll just have to buy more feasts, etc...

I have no doubt it will change the dynamic a bit, but this change affects everyone equally, and I see no compatibility problems.


I think AEG will be successful with Advance in creating a more workable starting deck, one that requires less thinning. But the heroes listed in the original post will be casualties of war as a result; not because they don't work, but because the problem they once solved is no longer a problem, so their relative value has decreased.

Thyrian was a great early buy because he helped me dump my unwanted Iron Rations, and he plays well with Militia (until I get rid of them). Now he's just a plain fighter, and therefore less attractive in contrast to other heroes. It was always a tough decision anyway to get a Thyrian, because the value of his bonuses would diminish over time. Same goes for Diin and Krell, who worked well with the starting deck, but are now less effective.

Outlands could use some nerfing, so I don't mind the decreased potency on his cards. Nightblade and Dwarf though, come out swinging because I already had edged weapons in my deck. There's nothing to stop me from buying additional (better) weapons and dumping the daggers, but the daggers meant that the Dwarf and Nightblade were immediately useful. Now the Dwarf is no better than a Regian until I spend an additional turn to buy a weapon (or 2+ weapons, to get the same card ratio). Dwarf and Nightblade were also bolstered by the guaranteed availability of edged weapons (and of a specific weight), which is now variable. I agree with the example that some heroes rely on spells even though spells are not always available (or spells we would actually buy are not always available). And those two heroes, Cabal and Harruli, are relatively weak buys as a result of this dependency. This change nerfs the Dwarf and Nightblade, which, in my opinion, were not overpowered.

Of the village cards mentioned, all are nerfed without Militia. Unless "Militia = Regular" is houseruled, there would be no reason to buy a Trainer, and little reason to buy the others.

For the monsters, it's disadvantageous to defeat many low-VP monsters, unless they are conferring some additional bonus, such as high gold, high XP, or destroying basic cards from my hand. The Ooze in particular are now less attractive to attack early on.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Presley
United States
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I could see a house rule of "anything that specifically effects militia effects regulars" being useful, especially for those that have Thornwood Siege. But that's fine; one of the great things about Thunderstone is how modular and easy it is to tweak to your liking. It would be just as easy to say if you draw a monster type that specifically kills archers to draw another one if your hero choices don't include any archers.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Larouche
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
flag msg tools
Melting souls with cuteness since 2007
badge
Lovin' N-16
mbmbmbmbmb
I have old flashbacks of Advanced Dungeons and Dragons back in the days.

It really was a new edition over plain D&D, with an "advanced" in front of it instead of a "2nd edition" mention.
You *could* technically still use old modules, spells and whatnots... but essentially, it was a new game altogether.

I have the same feeling with Thunderstone Advance.

Here's my thought process concerning Thunderstone Advance, and bear in mind this is just my opinion based on my own personal feelings and yours may vary:

At first, i was:
- "YES, new Thunderstone! new improved rules! better everything!"
then,

- "Wait a minute... how are these old cards going to work with that change? No matter, it's a small house rule to make them work"

- "But then this other change also affects these old cards, still a minor thing though".

- "Now the text don't necessarilly mean the same thing depending on the card's version, that's going to be annoying..."

- "If i go over all those issues, how do i know other issues like those arn't going to come in further developments of Thunderstone? There's bound to be more and more as the old card's effect become more and more obsolete. For example, when food makes a come back, will they work the same way or will there be more issues to solve?"

- "At one point, i'm pretty sure i'll stop playing with some old cards that present compatibility problems... or those that require specific cards to be in play when statistically they would never come out at the same time anymore unless i force the game so? A card that affects an Archer for example. That combo would almost never occur unless i specifically select it, not using the randomizers. I may just not bother with them..."

- "When more Advance expansions come out and i have a vast variety of cards, will i still want to play with the old cards which have a different look and feel and would never quite "feel right" with the Advance cards. There's a chance i will never play with my old cards anymore. Will they just collect dust?"

- "Do i really need Advance? The game is already vast as it is right now."

- "I am now on the fence with Advance. I have no doubt it's a better game. But do i really need another similar game? It MAY make my older set obsolete in the long run. Not now, not in half a year... but in 2 years from now? Do i really want to invest in a game to fire a game i already have"

Maybe i'm thinking too much... but Advance and it's expansions are going to be a lot of $$$. Do i really need to buy a second Thunderstone or can i live with my old set and buy instead, say, Nightfall as a different alternative that would definitely play differently than another Thunderstone variant...

This way, i would be sure my old Thunderstone still gets played in the long run, along with the newer game (or the whatever i buy from the money saved).

I now can't decide.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Leber
Canada
Orillia
ON
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
deedob wrote:

- "At one point, i'm pretty sure i'll stop playing with some old cards that present compatibility problems... or those that require specific cards to be in play when statistically they would never come out at the same time anymore unless i force the game so? A card that affects an Archer for example. That combo would almost never occur unless i specifically select it, not using the randomizers. I may just not bother with them..."



I think this is pretty much the worst case scenario though... most cards should be able to easily convert, but maybe... just maybe some will become either truly obsolete (possibly trainer), or just "useless" enough that we won't want to play with them (say, arguably, Thyrian).

I still don't think it's a big deal. I LOVE the trainer, and if we decide using her with "regulars" isn't ideal, I'll be sad to see her go. But you know there will be a card to replace her down the road. I'd put money on it...

Some people seem to have a major problem with this concept, but I just don't get it. It seems like far less than half the cards will be affected... possibly only a handful. So if you like the new advance game, enjoy! And rest assured there will be expansions to replace most if not all popular cards.

If that doesn't appeal to you, then you can always stick with classic Thunderstone. It's just a nice option to have available. I think we should be happy that most if not all cards will be 99% compatible, rather than focus on the few pieces that may not be entirely compatible.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Presley
United States
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
deedob wrote:
- "I am now on the fence with Advance. I have no doubt it's a better game. But do i really need another similar game? It MAY make my older set obsolete in the long run. Not now, not in half a year... but in 2 years from now? Do i really want to invest in a game to fire a game i already have"


If you think TS:A will make the old Thunderstone cards gradually obsolete in the future (which is a huge leap of pessimistic thinking), but you also think TS:A has a lot of rules improvements, why not just buy the base set, to get the better rules/nice board/other improvements, and then never get any expansions after that? Surely that's a more reasonable, best-of-all-worlds scenario.

Also the analogy to D&D is inappropriate, since every major addition has completely overhauled the rules into something else. TS:A has all the core gameplay intact, with a lot of smart ideas that have arisen over time to address complaints/problems.

And I'll add cards that reference specific other card types not getting the latter to combo up with (e.g. a card that effects archers and no archers on the table) is already a problem in Thunderstone as it is. TS:A doesn't help or hinder this, and if you want it fixed, just draw a new card to replace the un-combo'd village card. We do this with certain items now; Chieftan's Drums, for example, is never chosen ever unless there is another card that enables the player to look at/control the top of his deck. If that combo can't happen, it's a dead card, so we just draw another to replace it. It is THAT. EASY.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Larouche
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
flag msg tools
Melting souls with cuteness since 2007
badge
Lovin' N-16
mbmbmbmbmb
Holmes108 wrote:

I think this is pretty much the worst case scenario though...


Oh i agree i am definitely looking at the worst case scenario here. Call me pessimistic if you will

I'm just not sure anymore i want to dive in this new game.

It's just, i dunno, that Thunderstone "classic" has JUST been completed and that we already have slight problems with the new version coming out.

If it had had a break of two years and came back with those slight problems... i definitely wouldn't be bothered by it as it would be a clear message that this is the evolution. But the break lasted a mere what? 3 months?
Some cards we bought 3 months ago in the latest expansion might have problems already? really?

Heck, i've still never even been able to beat the Heart of Doom in any games we played with him and now, he's *sorta* already obsolete as the old guardians are no longer part of the ruleset? (yes i know i can houserule to play him anyway and that it's not a major change).

Yes, i'm pessimistic and am looking at this the worst way possible, it may not be fair to AEG and the people who designed Advance... but it's just how i feel about it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Leber
Canada
Orillia
ON
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
hoobajoo wrote:
If that combo can't happen, it's a dead card, so we just draw another to replace it. It is THAT. EASY.


Agreed. 90% of the "compatibility" issues are extremely similar to what can already happen, and simply require tweaking your starting setup (which many people already do).

The biggest one is the cards that supposedly greatly depend on your starting deck, which has changed. I personally still think it rarely, if ever, breaks a card. It will just change the dynamic a bit, which is not necessarily better or worse.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Metzler
United States
Round Lake Beach
Illinois
flag msg tools
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering Pinky?"
badge
"Wuhhh... I think so, Brain, but if a ham can operate a radio, why can't a pig set a VCR?"
mbmbmbmbmb
deedob wrote:
Holmes108 wrote:

I think this is pretty much the worst case scenario though...


Oh i agree i am definitely looking at the worst case scenario here. Call me pessimistic if you will

I'm just not sure anymore i want to dive in this new game.

It's just, i dunno, that Thunderstone "classic" has JUST been completed and that we already have slight problems with the new version coming out.

If it had had a break of two years and came back with those slight problems... i definitely wouldn't be bothered by it as it would be a clear message that this is the evolution. But the break lasted a mere what? 3 months?
Some cards we bought 3 months ago in the latest expansion might have problems already? really?

Heck, i've still never even been able to beat the Heart of Doom in any games we played with him and now, he's *sorta* already obsolete as the old guardians are no longer part of the ruleset? (yes i know i can houserule to play him anyway and that it's not a major change).

Yes, i'm pessimistic and am looking at this the worst way possible, it may not be fair to AEG and the people who designed Advance... but it's just how i feel about it.


But the issues you speak of are either either very minor, or ones you are formulating in your mind. Not deep seeded game breaking issues...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
navajas
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
deedob wrote:


- "Do i really need Advance? The game is already vast as it is right now."

- "I am now on the fence with Advance. I have no doubt it's a better game. But do i really need another similar game? It MAY make my older set obsolete in the long run. Not now, not in half a year... but in 2 years from now? Do i really want to invest in a game to fire a game i already have".


I think this is a real risk with this product that I have not been able to articulate well until this point. And the question is not only do I want to spend $30-$50 a pop that with each successive purchase further diminishes the value of my already massive collection of cards, but, I already have a pile of fun playing with those cards so why should I?

Also, the Battle Effect / Aftermath thing is a real head scratcher. I mean, I don't mind, I always thought the after the battle resolution was strange, non-intuitive and too lenient, but it's an odd thing to ask customers to swallow while assuring them of backwards compatibility. Maybe I'm not understanding something.

I know it's a tight line to walk for a company, but it's beginning to feel a little like fixing what isn't broken. I followed much the same path of reason you have, and am now feeling myself begin to lean away from purchasing this release. Know what would make my decision a lot easier? Ha. And not coincidentally, know what would never happen? Give me an address to mail my 40lbs of Thunderstone cards and a check for $100 that will then send me an updated version of all my cards. And by "all" I mean just those relevant, even a severely edited collection would work, you know? I've already thinned down my box considerably to fit everything I use under one cover: no randomizers, no Brad Pitts, no basics cards past the requisite, no Short Sword, etc...

Dreaming, I know.

Anyway, you're not alone. Any and all Thunderstone expansions were automatic buys for me. This is not a Stop sign by any means just yet but I am feeling paralyzed. To make so many cards such a hassle to even contemplate, the new edition would have to be fundamentally much better, and, I don't see it. Again, as you say, all the changes look "good" to me (though the quality of art seems to have dipped) but at what expense? Cut my collection/experience/variety by 70% (totally arbitrary) in order to benefit from an only marginally better product?

Man, I'm just not feeling it. Hopefully (for me and AEG) I get more excited and less hesitant as previews continue. Admittedly, the trend for me is just the opposite.

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig Groff-Folsom
United States
Grand Rapids
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Thunderstone Advance: Towers of Ruin » Forums » General
Re: Compatibility of old cards with the new rules
I get when this happens with CCGs. The angst makes sense, because playing a CCG means that the cards you buy have to be equal to the cards that other people buy. To remain relevant, you have to play the cards that the company deems as the current accepted set.

Are people forgetting that this is a board game? That all Thunderstone sets, nay individual cards, can be added or omitted at whim based on your personal preference? This is the very same community that boldly embraced a completely different way to play the game during its first arc.

I, for one, look at it as similar to Race For The Galaxy. There is an arc with three expansions. A new expansion is forthcoming, but the designer has just flat-out said that it's not tested with any of the first three expansions. The community is accepting that, but a few are still going to try to mix them just to see what happens.

Is it so hard to believe in the other direction? AEG says the sets can be mixed. There are playtesters coming out of the woodwork confirming that they've tested this very thing. And yet... so much worry.

It will be fine. YOU control what's at your table. Thunderstone is not a CCG. If you buy Advance and don't like it, put it in an auction.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fred Alfred
Canada
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mb
That old Battle: rule vs new Battle: rule is a weirdo. It would have been so easy for them to find a new keyword that meant "before battle".

You can tell that they did care about keywords in designing TS:A because they noted that curses were still diseases and said they were happy with militia != regular and apparently archer != ranger.

Has anyone seen how strong the new battle effects are? The best house rule could be to make old monsters stronger by saying their battle affect happens before combat. The new game has the concept of lvl 1/2/3 monsters so a set that is full of battle effects could be a lvl 3 monster set.

Also style wise if you're willing to attack a monster just get some regulars killed off then you should have to put up with this harder rule.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.