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Tom Vasel
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After my very positive impressions of Pair-of-Dice games Marvin Marvel's Marvelous Marble Machine and Warp 6, I had high impressions of games made by the company. The next one from this company that I then tried was Knockabout (Pair-of-Dice Games, 2001 - Greg Lam). As with Warp 6, the game uses several different types of dice; as with MMMMM, it simulates marbles rolling around.

Recently, I reviewed Warp 6, and I talked about how all the dice in the game didn't add as much luck as I thought - that the game revolved around strategy. In Knockabout, I'm afraid to say that the opposite is true. Yes, there are tactical decisions to be made in the game, but they are overwhelmed by the rolls of the dice. In the games that I've played the games have been won by the persons who have rolled better numbers on the dice. Rolling the dice I don't have a problem with, but I'm not sure I like how much high rolls affected the game.

The board is in the shape of a giant hexagon, made up of a grid of smaller connecting hexagons. The outer ring of hexes is the "gutter", and each player sets up four four-sided dice, three six-sided dice, and two eight-sided dice on the board, as shown per a diagram in the rules. Each die is placed with a certain number face up - "1", "2", and "3" respectively, and one of the two players is chosen to go first.

On a player's turn, they move one of their dice in a straight line, moving the exact amount of spaces equal to the number showing on the die. The die will continue to move the full amount unless it bumps into another die. When hitting another die, the die that is hit is moved in the same direction as the colliding die, using the remainder of the movement points. It's possible for more than one die to be hit in a move. The last die that is moved in such a collision is re-rolled, gaining new movement capabilities.

When a die lands in the gutter, it no longer moves in a straight line but can simply only move around the outside of the gutter. Dice in the gutter can be maneuvered in such a way as to block other dice from entering the gutter but are otherwise useless. The game continues until one player has knocked five of their opponent's dice into the gutter - at which point they win!

Some comments on the game…

1.) Components: As with the other Pair-of-Dice games, the components are inexpensive and of lower quality but functional enough to utilize the game. The board is on a vinyl mat, which works better than the boards in the other games - and wipes off as well - although it looks a little drab. The dice are functional, although they don't really roll as well as I'd like. Everything comes in a plastic snap container, and the entire package is rather cheap to buy online.

2.) Rules: The rules are quite simple and short - only one side of one page, and that's including several diagrams illustrating setup and movement. Teaching the game to others isn't difficult, I simply use the idea of marbles moving around, knocking each other off the board, into the gutter. The theme works fairly well as a teaching tool, although for some it's hard to imagine the dice as marbles.

3.) Tactics: Sometimes it's worth hitting your own die, simply to change the number to a higher one, giving you more maneuverability. Of course, too high of a number, and your die may be stuck, because all of the available moves might cause it to end up in the gutter. There is also a bit of tactical movement in the gutter itself, as you can use pieces to block your own dice from hitting the gutter; but it's not as much as you might think, since you're at the mercy of the number on the die.

4.) Luck: When one of your dice knocks the opponent's dice backwards, almost to the gutter, and then he rolls an "8" with it, hitting you back into your own gutter, it can be rather annoying. Yes, one should take into account the different possibilities, but it's just a little too random for me. In Warp 6, the different numbers on the die often had many good benefits, because smaller numbers could be used to "warp" down a level. In Knockabout, there's really no benefit to a "1", and it really stinks when that's what you roll.

5.) Fun Factor: I won't deny that I enjoyed certain aspects of the game; it's an interesting two player game that plays fairly quickly, and I like knocking the opponent's pieces into the gutter. But every time that I've played so far, we've really had no general strategy (not after the first couple of moves, anyway); it's more like one simply needs move their high numbered pieces to knock the opponent's into the gutter. It's a neat, fun idea, but doesn't hold much water after the novelty wears off.

There will probably be some who enjoy the game - the theme is interesting, and I've always enjoyed using dice as playing pieces. It's simply too random for me; and while this is fortunately mitigated to a degree by how short the game is, it's enough to keep me from frequently playing the game. Moving dice around is satisfied by Warp 6, and the theme is better represented in other abstract games; so this is one that I can pass. An interesting game, but too much luck.

Tom Vasel
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Aaron Fuegi
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Knockabout » Forums » Reviews
Re: [Review] Knockabout
I posted this reply to Spielfrieks but am reposting here. I would also note that it was pointed out to me that Tom's rating for this game (5) is the lowest of ALL the ratings on BGG and the average rating is 7.45. I would suggest to you that it is Tom, and not me, that is missing something. I also personally know many of the people rating the game and basically none of them are fans of luck-fests.

Tom Vasel wrote:
> After my very positive impressions of Pair-of-Dice games Marvin
> Marvel's Marvelous Marble Machine and Warp 6, I had high impressions
> of games made by the company. The next one from this company that I
> then tried was Knockabout (Pair-of-Dice Games, 2001 - Greg Lam). As
> with Warp 6, the game uses several different types of dice; as with
> MMMMM, it simulates marbles rolling around.
>
> Recently, I reviewed Warp 6, and I talked about how all the dice in
> the game didn't add as much luck as I thought - that the game revolved
> around strategy. In Knockabout, I'm afraid to say that the opposite
> is true. Yes, there are tactical decisions to be made in the game,
> but they are overwhelmed by the rolls of the dice. In the games that
> I've played the games have been won by the persons who have rolled
> better numbers on the dice. Rolling the dice I don't have a problem
> with, but I'm not sure I like how much high rolls affected the game.

I have to _strongly_ disagree with this. Yes, it is an advantage
in general to roll high but there is quite a lot of skill in this game. In
fact, Knockabout is probably in my top 25 games of all-time and top-5
two-player games and I am NOT a fan of mostly luck games. Greg Lam has
achieved with this game the amazing feat of creating an interesting 2P abstract
game with randomness. I can think of NO other game that succeeds nearly as
well at this. This game is by far my favorite of the Pair-of-Dice games!

I wish Knockabout were available online so that I could challenge you,
Tom, to a game or three of it. My records (which admittedly may not be quite
complete) say that I've played this game 8 times and never lost and I can tell
you in at least a couple of those games I was much LESS lucky than my opponent.
I actually like this game enough that I wish that 8 plays number were way
higher but I pretty rarely play 2P games AND I found some of my opponents not
wanting to play me again after the first game cause they felt they were way
outclassed. This issue is its own problem but is OPPOSITE of the complaint
that the game is all about luck.

> 4.) Luck: When one of your dice knocks the opponent's dice backwards,
> almost to the gutter, and then he rolls an "8" with it, hitting you
> back into your own gutter, it can be rather annoying. Yes, one should
> take into account the different possibilities, but it's just a little
> too random for me. In Warp 6, the different numbers on the die often
> had many good benefits, because smaller numbers could be used to
> "warp" down a level. In Knockabout, there's really no benefit to a
> "1", and it really stinks when that's what you roll.

First off, its not true that 1s are always bad. You even mention
the reason in your previous paragraph. High numbers are powerful but
limited because if there is nothing (or only your own dice in the way) they
push too far and can not just get out of the way of a threat like low
numbers can. Yes, high numbers are certainly generally better but not
just plain better and the dice start out at low values for this reason - a
large part of the game is looking for opportunities to increase the values
of your dice, particularly the 6s and 8s.

On your specific example, this move is almost certainly a very bad one
on your part and should have only been done if you had no choice. Rolling your
opponent's 8-sideds (assuming currently set for a low number) is just about the
worst move you can make in the game and particularly if there is a chance that
it could immediately kill one of your dice. Even if it doesn't kill your die,
he can almost always reverse the attack you made and since he is using the
highest value die in the game, you have at best an even chance (with your 8) to
win such a war. You should not have hit this die unless you could have put it
into the gutter or had no choice for defensive reasons or such. Basically,
knocking a die _near_ the gutter has limited value as most of the time he can
get away. Either put it into the gutter or set up another attack.

I think Tom is JUST PLAIN WRONG in this review and really hope he
doesn't dissuade people from trying this great game or make them think this
game is the opposite of what it is, an intense skillful abstract with a
random element livening it up but NOT dominating, unless the players are of
very equal skill level.

Aaron

ps. Yes, I might be the biggest fan of this game on the planet actually. I
actually have the feeling I like it even better than Greg (the designer) does.


Greg Lam
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I like the game just fine. I just fear I'm not very good at it....

Althought, admittedly, I like Warp 6 more.
Last edited on 2006-03-22 15:03:18 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
Matthew Gray
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I've got to echo Aaron's comments here. There is not a ton of luck in Knockabout. Against equally matched players, clearly luck plays a role, but there is a much greater variety of tactical play which allows you to almost totally mitigate that luck.

I know it may sound harsh, and I mean no insult, but I'd say if you're seeing randomness dominate the games, you're playing too randomly. Of the 15+ people I've played this game with, it's essentially never been an issue. Sometimes it takes a game or two to learn to avoid the "hail mary" kind of plays, but most seem to catch on pretty quick: Hold the center, establish forks, avoid bumping your opponent more than you might initially tend to.

And, in terms of comparison to Warp 6, while I enjoy Warp 6, I enjoy Knockabout far more. I'd strongly encourage anyone interested in this game not to be deterred by any concern over randomness/luck. If you like 2-player abstracts, it's very worth a look. I find Knockabout as compelling as the best of the Kris Burm games.
Doug Orleans
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aarondf@bu.edu wrote:
I wish Knockabout were available online so that I could challenge you, Tom, to a game or three of it. My records (which admittedly may not be quite complete) say that I've played this game 8 times and never lost and I can tell you in at least a couple of those games I was much LESS lucky than my opponent.


It's finally available online! Check it out at http://boardspace.net/. It'll be interesting to see how wide the player ratings will spread.
Aaron Fuegi
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Close to exactly 3 years ago, Tom Vasel wrote a negative review of one of my favorite two-player games, Greg Lam's Knockabout. Tom basically claimed the game was all luck, a not that surprising (albeit not accurate) claim of an abstract game that involves rolling dice much of the time. I strongly disagreed with him.

Well, recently David Dyer implemented an online version of Knockabout at www.boardspace.net and decided to run a tournament of the game. The tournament was 16 players in a single elimination format but playing best of 5, 5, 7 and 9 games in the four rounds to even out the luck elements there are in the game. Well, the tournament ended last night and I won with an overall record of 16 wins and 4 losses (played 1 extra fun game with one opponent which is why it is 16 and not 15), and that against some quite good opponents. Now, I think this 80% win rate was definitely lucky and all and wouldn't have expected to do nearly that well but still, I really do think this tournament pretty much proves my point in regard to the disagreement above.

Thanks to Greg Lam for designing the game (and providing prizes for the tournament), David Dyer for implementing it and running the tournament, and Doug Orleans for pointing out the tournament to me. Also, of course thanks to all my opponents for some very fun plays of this great game.

Crossposted to my blog: http://scv.bu.edu/~aarondf/hearth/ and to BoardGameGeek.
Last edited on 2009-04-01 09:56:06 CST (Total Number of Edits: 1)
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