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Subject: Games for Geekgold Lottery Tool Discussion Thread rss

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Mousey
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Mythgard wrote:
rootbierz wrote:
Mythgard wrote:
and the non-cumulative structure may be easier on most of us (I was about to grab a calculator to try to code my bonus bidding structure)


You snaked in on my long reply/beat me to it with fewer words. laugh

If you need any help working out/formatting your code, just send me a geekmail describing your intended structures and bonus items and such.

A small sword strikes faster than a two-handed sword. Didn't you know?

So let me see If I got this right. Again. Syntax only.
"x" stands for cumulative bonus. "r" is for non-cumulative (T&R) bonus.

On a bidding structure like:
5 = 6 entries
10 = 13 entries
25 = 35 entries

On Cumulative syntax: 5x1|10x1|25x3

On a T&R syntax: 5r6|10r13|25r35

Those two should give the same bonus. Am I on the right path? zombie


As I understand it that last line is in the wrong order.
It would read the 5r6 before the 25r35 so you would just get 30 for your 25.
correct would be:
25r35|10r13|5r6
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Mousey wrote:

As I understand it that last line is in the wrong order.
It would read the 5r6 before the 25r35 so you would just get 30 for your 25.
correct would be:
25r35|10r13|5r6

Doh! Wrong order! I'm a mindless drone... I have to speak in LOLcats! zombie
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BoardGameGeek » Forums » Gaming Related » Trades
Re: Games for Geekgold Lottery Tool Discussion Thread
Mousey wrote:
Mythgard wrote:
rootbierz wrote:
Mythgard wrote:
and the non-cumulative structure may be easier on most of us (I was about to grab a calculator to try to code my bonus bidding structure)


You snaked in on my long reply/beat me to it with fewer words. laugh

If you need any help working out/formatting your code, just send me a geekmail describing your intended structures and bonus items and such.

A small sword strikes faster than a two-handed sword. Didn't you know?

So let me see If I got this right. Again. Syntax only.
"x" stands for cumulative bonus. "r" is for non-cumulative (T&R) bonus.

On a bidding structure like:
5 = 6 entries
10 = 13 entries
25 = 35 entries

On Cumulative syntax: 5x1|10x1|25x3

On a T&R syntax: 5r6|10r13|25r35

Those two should give the same bonus. Am I on the right path? zombie


As I understand it that last line is in the wrong order.
It would read the 5r6 before the 25r35 so you would just get 30 for your 25.
correct would be:
25r35|10r13|5r6


Mousey is right, the non cumulative needs to be added biggest to lowest. I'm starting the wiki, but it will take a while. I will probably have this ready by mid-month. There are now 24 possible rules on the tool .
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yohanleafheart wrote:
Mythgard wrote:
yohanleafheart wrote:

[rules] - this would be the string defining the rules of the drawing. Each rule is added as a |(pipe) separated list. And I would add a lot more explanation so everyone knows how to right. As another example

Quote:
[GFGTOOL]
[date]31[/date]
[title]My Awesome mystery box[/title]
[rules]5x1|10x1[/rules]
[/GFGTOOL]
Adds an item called "My Awesome mystery box", to be drawn on the 31st using as rules

For every 5 the user gets a bonus entry.
For every 10 the user gets a bonus entry.


Let me see if I got the example right:

5 = 6 entries (5+1)
10 = 13 entries (10+1+1+1)

Is that it?

yes


[rules]5x1|10x1[/rules]
How does 10x1 come to be 13 entries and not just one extra or 11?

would it not have to be 10x3 to be 13?

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tawnos76 wrote:
yohanleafheart wrote:
Mythgard wrote:
yohanleafheart wrote:

[rules] - this would be the string defining the rules of the drawing. Each rule is added as a |(pipe) separated list. And I would add a lot more explanation so everyone knows how to right. As another example

Quote:
[GFGTOOL]
[date]31[/date]
[title]My Awesome mystery box[/title]
[rules]5x1|10x1[/rules]
[/GFGTOOL]
Adds an item called "My Awesome mystery box", to be drawn on the 31st using as rules

For every 5 the user gets a bonus entry.
For every 10 the user gets a bonus entry.


Let me see if I got the example right:

5 = 6 entries (5+1)
10 = 13 entries (10+1+1+1)

Is that it?

yes


[rules]5x1|10x1[/rules]
How does 10x1 come to be 13 entries and not just one extra or 11?

would it not have to be 10x3 to be 13?



Because you also get 2 bonus entries for the 2 increments of 5.
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tawnos76 wrote:
yohanleafheart wrote:
Mythgard wrote:
yohanleafheart wrote:

[rules] - this would be the string defining the rules of the drawing. Each rule is added as a |(pipe) separated list. And I would add a lot more explanation so everyone knows how to right. As another example

Quote:
[GFGTOOL]
[date]31[/date]
[title]My Awesome mystery box[/title]
[rules]5x1|10x1[/rules]
[/GFGTOOL]
Adds an item called "My Awesome mystery box", to be drawn on the 31st using as rules

For every 5 the user gets a bonus entry.
For every 10 the user gets a bonus entry.


Let me see if I got the example right:

5 = 6 entries (5+1)
10 = 13 entries (10+1+1+1)

Is that it?

yes


[rules]5x1|10x1[/rules]
How does 10x1 come to be 13 entries and not just one extra or 11?

would it not have to be 10x3 to be 13?



10gg in tips triggers two of the +1 5gg threshold bonuses as well as triggering the +1 bonus for reaching 10gg in tips. The total tipped is 10gg, but in addition to the one entry per gg tipped, there are 3 separate +1 threshold bonuses tacked onto the 10 entries for a total of 13.

At least that's the way it would work as written.
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Assuming a rule of

10r13|5r6

How many entries would a bid of 15 get?

Is it the same as 5x1|10x1 ?
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yaverot wrote:
Assuming a rule of

10r13|5r6

How many entries would a bid of 15 get?

Is it the same as 5x1|10x1 ?
If I did my math right, the two examples should give 19 entries for 15
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Mousey
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Sol, could you have a look at this:
In the tool I see on my Home summary page an open item, but on the item page I see it's closed.
2054708 Innovation 03/29/2012 Open



Also there are some older items that are in limbo (closed but the tool is not updated properly), could you close these manually?
e.g. items that I see:
1888252 Flash Point: Fire Rescue 11/01/2011 Open
2002275 Octopath 02/29/2012 Open


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Karsten
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Please also close these manually, as they haven't been cleared out:

1952779 $10 of promos at the Geek Store 01/27/2012
2002260 Bang! 02/29/2012 adamjthompson00
2008203 Dragon Chow Dice Bag 02/29/2012 PowerTrader
2018860 Carcassonne: Der Tunnel 02/28/2012 Celtic Joker
2049388 Revolver: The Wild West Gunfighting Game 03/29/2012 meijerc
2087036 3" Meeple Sticker/Decal 04/30/2012 Tegs
2087585 Elfenland or 2 other games 04/30/2012 travvller

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Samuel Sol
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Thanks for the info, I intend to do a check for all of these this next days. I also have to check my geekmail box
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I was just about to suggest adding a "self-service" configuration section to the lotteries and saw that you're already working on it: Awesome!

I have a suggestion/idea. Instead of parsing a lot of tags, why not accept a JSON structure? It might save you some parsing work (unless you've already done that)...

Also while I think the idea of locking the bidding rules is well intentioned, what about when someone makes a mistake?
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The last lottery's discussion reminded me that I should probably talk about my complaints about the tool instead of just silently grinding my teeth...

First of all I want to repeat that I greatly appreciate the work Sol has put into the tool and these lotteries. As a software developer myself I can tell. Nonetheless I have some gripes with it:

1) The login. The tool shouldn't ask me for my BGG login. I am inherently uncomfortable with such a deal. Also it is unnecessary which makes this point even more painful.
2) Everything requires a login - even checking a lottery roll. No reason whatsoever for this.
3) Navigation. I haven't been in the tool a while but I remember that I found it quite awkward to move into my listing.

I don't just want to complain but also offer a way to improve things. Some may doubt my statement that a login is unnecessary so let me explain myself:

There is only one instance where to tool needs to know my identity on BGG: When I want to draw a lottery item. In all other instances my identity is irrelevant. Now I understand (or I can guess) why the tool asks me for the login anyway: the tips. I assume the tool uses my login to query BGG for the gold transfers I have received. That however is not necessary as the same information is available right there on the geeklist for everyone to see. I wrote a small script to catalog every item in a geeklist automatically. It took about an evening plus the time to figure out how to set up the cron job.

"Aha! So you admit the tool does need to know my identity!" you say and you're right. But it does not need my login. Here's how:

Since Sol is going to allow for "self-service" tags in the geeklist items anyway there is a simple way to confirm a user's identity:

1. User visits Sol's tool
2. Tool initiates a session and generates a unique code for it
3. User adds that code to the geeklist item
4. Tool reads the item and now knows the BGG identity of the tool user.

This increased complexity could however be hidden from the user if the tool were to provide a wizard to generate the "self service" tags. If the users would prepare the code snippet inside the tool to begin with and then simply insert it into their geeklist item, the authentication would happen transparently in the background without the user noticing. If the session is kept long enough the only problem would be with users trying to roll a lottery form a different browser session than they created the lottery with.

OpenID would solve that without bothering people for their login credentials of any website.
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You can expect nothing but disappointment instead of consistent results if you're asking each and every lister to take the time to jump through technological hoops. There are people that browse the Web on a daily basis, yet suffer brain cramps if asked to try and learn how or why things work the way they do. They're comfortable being a naive person on the user end of things and do not wish to see behind the curtain.

Everything needs to be intuitive, clear cut, and painless, or it won't work. Code is one thing. The tool's UI is another thing entirely. Sol isn't flawless, but he's pretty good at both, so I trust him. Understand, his tool isn't officially sanctioned by BGG. It was something he whipped up after seeing the inherent flaws in another user's tool (Jeromier). Now that he's a part of the Admin team working on the big BGG/RPGG/VGG redesign, I imagine that the Lotteries, as well as Sol's tool, will get a module of their own and better integrate with BGG, including revising the "login" feature. I just don't think a tip data scrape as I believe you're describing is the best way to go about doing it. Seems kind of crude and unnecessary if the G4GG lotteries get the site integration they deserve.
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Kempeth wrote:
The last lottery's discussion reminded me that I should probably talk about my complaints about the tool instead of just silently grinding my teeth...

First of all I want to repeat that I greatly appreciate the work Sol has put into the tool and these lotteries. As a software developer myself I can tell. Nonetheless I have some gripes with it:

1) The login. The tool shouldn't ask me for my BGG login. I am inherently uncomfortable with such a deal. Also it is unnecessary which makes this point even more painful.
2) Everything requires a login - even checking a lottery roll. No reason whatsoever for this.
3) Navigation. I haven't been in the tool a while but I remember that I found it quite awkward to move into my listing.

I don't just want to complain but also offer a way to improve things. Some may doubt my statement that a login is unnecessary so let me explain myself:

There is only one instance where to tool needs to know my identity on BGG: When I want to draw a lottery item. In all other instances my identity is irrelevant. Now I understand (or I can guess) why the tool asks me for the login anyway: the tips. I assume the tool uses my login to query BGG for the gold transfers I have received. That however is not necessary as the same information is available right there on the geeklist for everyone to see. I wrote a small script to catalog every item in a geeklist automatically. It took about an evening plus the time to figure out how to set up the cron job.

"Aha! So you admit the tool does need to know my identity!" you say and you're right. But it does not need my login. Here's how:

Since Sol is going to allow for "self-service" tags in the geeklist items anyway there is a simple way to confirm a user's identity:

1. User visits Sol's tool
2. Tool initiates a session and generates a unique code for it
3. User adds that code to the geeklist item
4. Tool reads the item and now knows the BGG identity of the tool user.

This increased complexity could however be hidden from the user if the tool were to provide a wizard to generate the "self service" tags. If the users would prepare the code snippet inside the tool to begin with and then simply insert it into their geeklist item, the authentication would happen transparently in the background without the user noticing. If the session is kept long enough the only problem would be with users trying to roll a lottery form a different browser session than they created the lottery with.

OpenID would solve that without bothering people for their login credentials of any website.


While that sounds like it makes sense (I know little about this stuff), I would love to keep my statistics, even if it meant I have to keep logging in (unless the statistics are integrated to some other part of bgg).
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Well, I don't know what they have planned. I can only work on the assumption that things stay essentially the same. But if they really integrate the lotteries into BGG, then big kudos!

I don't see this any big hoops for the user to jump through. There are already 2 pages of rules to read through for the lotteries, something - as I had demonstrated myself - not every one does whistle. There are certain points of information that you have to remember and include in some form. Then when the time comes you have to check if the tool shows everything correctly and (potentially) wait for Sol to fix it.

With a wizard that asks you everything and then gives you a piece of text to post on the geeklist with everything in it, why would you not want to use it?

HilkMAN wrote:
While that sounds like it makes sense (I know little about this stuff), I would love to keep my statistics, even if it meant I have to keep logging in (unless the statistics are integrated to some other part of bgg).
Technically, the statistics don't need the login either. But other nice things could be done with it. As long as it's optional I have less of an objection to it. I still think it's bad form and teaches users a bad lesson when there are better ways to do it. I played EVE Online for several years and was there(tm) when they went through a similar issue. There's a particularly popular tool that too accesses your profile. At first you had to give your login data to the tool for this to work but not long after I joined they implemented API keys. You could generate those keys in your account and give them to the tool. It would allow the tool to access your data without knowing your login. Obviously such an approach would require additional work on the part of BGG.
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