Forrest & Ryan Driskel
Wow, we had a lot of questions while playing, but I think we eventually figured them out. Here are some we were still on the fence about:
When a 'hit' is declared, is it just applicable for that player turn (a single round of dice rolling on both sides - unlike attacking a joint, which continues every player turn until one side is dead)?
Is there any point to rolling your dice when a cop attacks your gangster? It seems like sense the cop always returns to the cup after the shootout anyway, there is no point.
When attacking a joint, it says all shooting is simultaneous, but then it also says a joint cannot be lost if the attacker dies. How does this work? Why not have the joint shoot first? Is it only referring to the final (x1) level of a joint?
When a piece leaves a joint, can it reenter the joint from a different entrance?
---------Questions we probably got resolved----------
Extortion can occur without moving, but you use up a "move" ? (Assume yes)
Each Public piece can only be moved once in a player turn? (Assume yes)
Round up or down for Racketeer strength > moves? (we used down)
I enjoyed the game though we butchered a couple rules during play and it took us 4 hours the first time. The rules we butchered made it take a SHORTER amount of time, which scared most people from playing again. However, we did finish on turn 15, so I guess we just needed the two minute timer, and knowing the rules better.
- Last edited Thu Oct 6, 2011 3:54 pm (Total Number of Edits: 1)
- Posted Thu Oct 6, 2011 3:11 pm
1.) Yes, when a hit is declared it is just applicable for that player turn only. The reason is that only a MOVING Thug or Racketeer that ends its' move in any space containing an opposing gang member may declare a Hit attempt. See [11.4 Mob Violence]. So if the opposing gangs are still in the same space even during the next turn, a Hit could not be declared by EITHER side unless someone again moves and ends that move in a space with an opposing gangster, flipping over to their Criminal side up. Keep in mind that a gang member who is being shot does not have to be Criminal side up in order to return fire, but the gang member declaring the Hit must be Criminal side up.
Re: More clarifications, help?
2.) Yes, there is a big reason Cops roll attack dice when shooting at a (Criminal) Gangster. The reason the Cops have different strengths (2-10) is the number-value indicates how many dice are rolled. Cops hit on a 5 or 6. The number of Hits a Cop does in a shootout can seriously reduce the Racketeer or Thugs they are shooting at. See [12.2 Hit Value]. Keep in mind that Joint Guards NEVER absorb Hits from Cops who are shooting at Criminal gang members in that Joint, and Joints will NEVER shoot at Cops. So if a Cop is conducting a Police Raid because Organized Crime (Public Marker) is occurring and there are NO gangsters Criminal side up, then yes, there is no need to roll for the Cops as the Joint is simply reduced in level by one and the Cop goes back to the draw-bag.
3.) It is NOT referring to the 'final' loss of property. Rule [12.5 Loss Of Property] states: "...results in the loss of one level of that property if the attacker is not eliminated in that Shootout round." It does not say "results in the loss of property if it is the final level x1 lost in that Shootout round." So that would include not only the 'final' loss of property but EVERY level loss of improvement to that property. Just remember that if opposing gangsters make a hit on one of your Joints, then ALL of those hits MUST be absorbed. If you have friendly gangsters in your Joint when the Hit occurs, you have the option to have your friendly gang members absorb those Hits and/or your Joint as you see fit. As to the attacking gang member(s) making the Hit on your Joint, in order for any reduction of your Joint to occur, at least one of the attacking gang members making the Hit must survive. If all attacking pieces are removed, then no Joint level loss occurs regardless of what level your Joint is.
Here's where it may get a little confusing. The defender (Joint in this case) declares his/her absorbed Hits first. Let's do an example:
You have a Joint x3 along with your Vamp and a Racketeer (Level 6). You are attacked by an opposing gang with a Thug (Level 2). After dice are rolled, your gang suffers 2 Hits and the attacking Thug suffers 2 Hits. The defender allocates absorbed Hits first. You can not let the Vamp absorb any of the Hits because Thugs will not shoot at Vamps. And you don't want your Racketeer to absorb any Hits forcing you to lose precious 'Movement Options'. So you decide to absorb both Hits on your Joint x3 (a wise move). Now the attacking Thug must absorb your 2 Hits. Since the Thug is alone he must absorb both Hits. Subsequently, since the Thug is only a level 2 Thug, both Hits eliminate the Thug. Because there are no 'surviving' attackers, your Joint does not drop to a Joint x1 and is instead returned to its' original status of Joint x3.
4.) Yes, a piece can re-enter a Joint that it started its' move in, if it re-enters from a different entrance. The rules don't prohibit you from BEING in the same space twice during a given move, only that you may not ENTER the same space twice. Starting your movement IN a Joint does NOT constitute Entering that Joint space, therefore if you started your movement in a Joint, you could re-enter that Joint as long as you used a different entrance. Please note that it is also possible to start your move in a space outside the entrance of a friendly Joint, move one space into the friendly Joint, and then immediately turn around and exit the same entrance back onto the street. This about-face is allowed because no space was ENTERED twice during the move. This is a nice tactic to use when you want to change directions on a street.
5.) Not sure on this one. Extortion occurs with a Vamp or Thug as long as they are Criminal side up. The wording in [11.3 Extortion] is a little vague as it says, "Each ACTIVE Vamp or Thug...may extort $100 times its' Move die roll..." I always interpreted the word 'ACTIVE' as being Criminal side up, not 'being activated to move but instead using that Move activation to extort'. At least that's how our group plays it. Otherwise, options for moving and making money are even more limited than they are. As an example, my brother likes to park his Thug somewhere cozy and just extort endlessly. It's up to the other players to put the Cops on people who like to do this. Or perhaps use your Vamp to seduce, make a Hit, etc.
6.) Yes, each Public piece may only be moved once per player turn. This is not covered under [6.8 Public] but it is covered under [6.1 Movement Options]. It says, "Regardless of the number of movement options a player has, that Gang may not move or recruit any piece more than once per turn." Because ALL pieces (including Public) are governed by the same rule for movement, Public may only move once per turn. I admit that the rule could have been more clear. The fact that the rule mentions the word 'recruit' in it, makes it seem like the movement only once per turn applies to Gangs.
7.) Correct, you round down for Racketeer moves. This is covered in the first sentence of [6.1 Movement Options]. "Each gang is limited to moving or recruiting a number of pieces (excluding Cops) equal to half the strength (fractions rounded down) of its' Racketeer."
This means that if you have 5 Racketeers, you will get 2 'Movement Options'. Keep in mind that if you were to purchase an additional Racketeer to bring your level up to 6, you would NOT get 3 Movement Options' on the turn you purchase that sixth Racketeer because paying for recruits comes AFTER movement [see Player Aid Card Sequence of Play]. Continuing our example, if you were to use one of your two 'Movement Options' to move your Vamp to successfully seduce an opposing Racketeer, you would immediately get to increase your Racketeer's to six. Consequently, you WOULD get 3 'Movement Options' and now have two moves left (Your seducing Vamp counts as one move).
- Last edited Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:21 pm (Total Number of Edits: 4)
- Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:30 pm