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Designer Diary: Extraordinary Gentlemen, The Making of 011 & The End of the World

marco valtriani
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011 is a strange game and was born in a correspondingly strange way. For a long time I had been thinking about an adventure game, trying many settings and changing lots of things as all sorts of bizarre ideas jumped around inside my head – all because I thought that a good adventure game should be really well-themed.

One day I ran across an illustration from The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, a comic series from Alan Moore and Kevin O'Neill, and immediately started to think about steampunk – perhaps because of the characters' Victorian costumes – and about people with "powers". I wasn't thinking about "superhero powers", mind you, conceiving of powers in a more subtle way. And as suggested by the comic, "extraordinary gentlemen" was the right word to describe what I was thinking about.

Anyway, I started to build up the core mechanism for my game, working on a strange system based on two "physical" gears bonded in a unique engine screwed to the main board. For sure, my primary inspiration was the rondel in Mac Gerdts' Antike and Imperial, one of my favorite game mechanisms ever, and I must admit that at first glance I didn't find the true potential of a multi-gear system. Moreover, I was lacking on the most important things for an adventure: a nice plot.

That realization ground me to a halt – how could I set up an adventure game without a decent adventure to tell?

A Merging of Minds

Some months later, I ran into Paolo Vallerga during the 2010 Lucca Comics & Games. I've been a big fan of Paolo's games since his first production, Le Saghe di Conquest, and I've also enjoyed his books. What's more, we've had many discussions during designer and publisher meetings set up by my association, so we immediately started talking about our projects.

He passionately told me an intriguing plot of an adventure filled with Norse mythology, magic symbology and many "musical" elements. In his mind, the game was really complex, and although it revolved around Turin, the game was set in a multitude of cities, ranging from London to Lyon.

As he had mentioned a steampunk setting, I said something like, "What a coincidence. I've been thinking about a steampunk adventure game for a long time, but I cannot find the right plot for it." We talked a lot about our ideas: Paolo had a nice story for a game — still in development, yet well-defined – and was in need of game mechanisms; I told him of the strange, "physical" action system for a steampunk game sitting in my drawer, which was waiting for a publisher fool enough to take a look at it.

We had many things in mind that all meshed well. We agreed immediately to set the game in only one city, and concurred on having a group of extraordinary characters: a Sherlock Holmes-like detective from London, a mysterious professor from Lyon, an erudite rabbi from Prague – the rabbi was an idea from Lara Mottola and for a long time Paolo and I called the design "The Game of the Rabbi in Prague" – and many others. We also agreed that the "menace" to fight against had to be something big, with Paolo initially thinking of Armageddon but searching for something less expected.

The earth rumbled – Fenrir's awakening was starting.

Beginning the Game and Ending the World

Paolo came to a final plot quickly, telling me that had received great news from Scandinavia and leaving me to wonder what the hell Scandinavia had to share with our game. In the following days, I worked feverishly on the game. The plot was really intriguing with many ideas to work on: a mythological winter, many fantastic characters, a foggy steampunk city, and a perilous search for a magic instrument to stop the onset of Ragnarök.

Starting from my old idea, I decided immediately to work along the lines of a Eurogame, but to have the mechanisms work in service of the strong theme that Paolo had sent me. My original idea was pretty simple. If I think of steampunk, my mind fills with images of engines, gears and devices. I tried to mix these elements with one of my "pivotal points" of game design: the resolution of many chained effects through a single action. Think, for example, of Michele Mura's Jerusalem, in which selecting a card gives you turn order, the number of wooden cubes you receive, and also a special advantage. This was the "engine" I mentioned earlier. In my mind, this was nearly a standalone mechanism, enough to complete the game with just a fistful of secondary rules.

But Paolo had bigger projects in mind.

Paolo is well-rounded creative person, and he blasted me with all sorts of input of what he wanted to see in the game. He had a huge amount of brilliant ideas, and many of them were complicated to integrate into the game mechanisms. Anyway, the main point was that he was looking for deep, absorbing game play revolving around the search for the Chosen One and the quest to stop Ragnarök.

So the game quickly became an investigative adventure: discover this, find that, and so on. First, I worked on a dynamic "whodunit" system, for while in 011 players are searching for the Chosen One and not a murderer, the goal is similar. More importantly, the Chosen One is a role too important to be played by a single player, so I tried to think in a lateral way, building the mechanism from a reverse starting point, namely that a character linked to a player is never the Chosen One. Also, the chances of spotting the Chosen One must increase over time, but with the conditions for this under control of the players and not determind by luck.

Thus, in 011 you must unveil the secret identities of your opponents in order to discover which character is the Chosen One, determining that by excluding other options. Every time a player uses the inner energies and resources of his character, discovering his alter-ego becomes a little easier. Will you preserve your energies and stay hidden in darkness, or will you unleash your special powers for the price of your identity?

An old map of Turin, the basis for the game's main board


Players must also find a magic instrument – the Organ of Snorri – hidden somewhere in Turin in order to play a magical song that can put back Fenrir. Paolo set the plot (and therefore the game) in a steampunk Turin not for emotional reasons, despite having been born there and living there now, but because Turin is the most magical city in the world, the only one that belongs both to the black magic and white magic triangles. Thus, Turin was simply the perfect place to gather all the terrible and mystical energies that would lead to the beginning of Ragnarök.

Also, the area phone code for Turin is "011" – but that's a coincidence.

Anyway, players will try to locate the Organ of Snorri by finding a set of photos taken of a mysterious building, which represents magical buildings on a map that is an accurate reproduction of the old town center of Turin. (Also, magical places are real locations in the city that have a great "magic charge", according to theories of esotericism.) This is a bit tricky to explain without an example, but in general if you know that from a particular location you can see something specific by looking in the cardinal directions, you can roughly determine where this place is located. In 011 this concept is translated into rules, something that wasn't easy to do, but the result is evocative.

To make things more challenging, I decided that players must select and use a different character each round independent of their secret identity. Also, in 011 the characters are working together to foil a great threat – the end of the world as we know it – but the players play the game competitively, with the game having only one winner. To give the players' sanity one final blow, one of them will become the incarnation of Fenrir in the middle of the game, suddenly working to help Ragnarök begin instead of trying to stop it.

Are you thinking about the concept of a traitor? Wrong. You're playing a competitive game, so there's no one to betray. To be honest, this idea was neither mine nor Paolo's. Instead, the idea of Fenrir came from Christofer Johnsson, the founder and leader of Therion.

Yes, that Therion, the symphonic metal band. When Paolo told me that the characters of the game would be the members of Therion, one of my favorite bands, I almost fell from the chair. Paolo, who is perhaps an even greater fan of the band than me, managed to have them agree to be "actors" in the game, giving names and faces to the characters and adding a really intriguing twist to the whole project. Christofer Johnsson and the rest of the band have continued to follow the development of 011 and all its fringe activities with interest, and I'm really honored by that.

Prototype game board with only a few details, which works for the playtests


And Now?

After the early playtests, we increased the number of gears from two to three, making the engine even more dynamic and speeding up the gameplay. Now, moving a gear (and subsequently the other two) generates a triplet of values and icons, which presents the active player with the actions he can perform during his turn, with no need for additional and annoying computations. We've also worked on balancing tiles, cards, and all the less predictable elements of the game.

After this enormous amount of work, we playtested the game a lot to streamline the game play and tune the game's duration and depth (and, of course, we're still testing it over and over). We're now bringing the game to the biggest Italian fairs – the next one being Play in Modena, March 26-27, 2011 – and tuning the final details.

Prepare – Ragnarök is coming...

Marco Valtriani
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Subscribe sub options Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:52 am
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Patrick C.
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Labyrinth: The War On Terror is historically inaccurate & politically biased. It's the one popular game that violates BGG's requirements to keep politics out of gen. discussion. And yet it receives special treatment =US-centric views of this site.
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Excited about any game that uses steampunk.

Do hope that the final edition doesn't use the Photoshopped character cards shown in the current game listing here. Maybe I'm in the minority, but to me that look just ruins the theme. Will keep an eye on this regardless.

Edit: Just saw the poll about this very issue. It's currently showing almost 72% against using photos.
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  • Edited Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:28 am
  • Posted Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:25 am
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Marco Fregoso

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well done!
sounds really interesting. in particular the three gears mechanic and the collaborative/one winner/traitor plot.
hope to try it in Modena, next Play.
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  • Posted Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:46 am
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marco valtriani
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travvller wrote:
Excited about any game that uses steampunk.
Do hope that the final edition doesn't use the Photoshopped character cards shown in the current game listing here. Maybe I'm in the minority, but to me that look just ruins the theme. Will keep an eye on this regardless.


Obviously I'm partial about 011... so take my words as the words of a parent speaking about his child

By one side I think that's a simple matter of taste.
By another point of view, I also think that for 011 pictures are not a bad choice. I'm one of those that usually don't like pictures in games very much, but in this case they have a strong "raison d'être".

First: Therion are real people. And any conversion into "illustrations" may result to be burlesque or, even worst, grotesque.
In 011, images are like lithographs, or just old pictures made with silver nitrate. Also, the pictures of places, in the game, are... well, pictures. If I want to say that a tile is a picture of something, why the hell I have to use an illustration for it?

Second: I strongly appreciate unusual graphical choices by publishers. I liked very much the "retro" style of Twilight Struggle, the "tin soldiers box" style of Wings of War, the weird Horse Fever graphics, and also the pictures of "movie related" games like Last Night on Earth or Star System.
Generally, I like when graphics are well merged into the "spirit" of the game.
It's not important the "tool", but "how" and "why" you use it.

Anyway, all graphics of 011 are still work in progress (I've seen things you people wouldn't believe)... let's see what Paolo have in store for us

Agzaroth wrote:
well done!
sounds really interesting. in particular the three gears mechanic and the collaborative/one winner/traitor plot.
hope to try it in Modena, next Play.


It will be easy to find it
011 will be constantly running on a "preview table" of "Giochi con l'Autore", along with other nice previews.
Engagements permitting, I will be glad to explain it personally to anyone. Otherwise, you will find the publisher in my stead.
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  • Edited Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:08 am
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Stephen Avery
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The gear element is an awesome idea and one very in tune with the steampunk theme. I lpve it and I can see multiple ways that it could be implementedo

The ties to norse mythology though kinda throw me for a loop. So the bad guy is a viking? I think you would have done better to go with someting more ambiguous like illuminati or the secret society of ancients or something.

However, The art looks great, the theme is unusual, and the mechanic sounds cool. If the gameplay is even half decent I predict you'll have a success on your hands. Good luck with 011. I hope it will be well recieved.

Steve"AmeritrashGuy"Avery
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  • Edited Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:25 pm
  • Posted Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:23 pm
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marco valtriani
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StephenAvery wrote:
The ties to norse mythology though kinda throw me for a loop. So the bad guy is a viking? I think you would have done better to go with someting more ambiguous like illuminati or the secret society of ancients or something.


I like a lot this kind of comments
They give me a chance to talk a little more about the theme.

Uhm, in fact there is not a "bad guy".
The "bad guy" (as humans perceive him) is a man that thinks that he is Righteous enough to enter Sindri - something like the Norse "paradise" (it's not easy to tell the concept in a few words*).
He's following paths that mortals cannot understand, until he becomes the incarnation of Fenrir itself.
So, the end of the world come not "simply" from a man, but from something that you cannot shot with a gun.

The illuminati idea is nice, but is something that reminds me more to spy stories than to 011.
In 011, you have eight characters opposing to a "out-of-size threat", that in the minds of the gods is either not a threat, but simply the natural ending of their battles.

* In Norse mythology, after the end of the world, there will be three "halls": Gimlè and Brimir, floating in the sky; and Sindri, carved on the Niðafjöll mountains. "Fair and Righteous" men will live forever in the last one.
For the ones that cannot be described precisely as "Fair and Righteous", there's a fourth, unnamed Hall in Náströnd, the "beaches of the dead". Is a dark and scary large room built from the skeletons of snakes, with the skulls of the vile beasts facing the inside of the hall and spitting venom on the inhabitants. In substance, not a place where you wish to book your next vacation.
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  • Edited Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:51 pm
  • Posted Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:38 pm
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DORGON
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Why do all steampunk characters look like every other steam punk character, but none of them look like people from the period? I'm sorry, but I just don't picture Fabio in 1889.
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  • Posted Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:14 pm
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Lee Fisher
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Sounds awesome, very exciting!
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  • Posted Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:42 pm
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Brian Peace
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I don't see why people wet their pants about photos in games so much. I love them. It's much cheaper than acquiring artwork and works very well IMHO. I can't wait to see this game.
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  • Posted Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:56 pm
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Tiwaz Tyrsfist
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MWChapel wrote:
Why do all steampunk characters look like every other steam punk character, but none of them look like people from the period? I'm sorry, but I just don't picture Fabio in 1889.


Because steampunk isn't about historical recreation?

If people want a (semi-)accurate portrayal of late 19th century life, they look into the works of Charles Dickens and Victorian/Edwardian Historical Recreation Societies.

If people want a fanciful portrayal of a world with clockwork automata, Air ships, and steam powered wonders, they look into the works of Jules Verne, and Steam punk.

It's kind of like asking "Why do Sci-Fi shows always depict Humanoid Aliens, Interstellar Space Travel, and humans not living in their own filth on a ruined planet they never escaped?"

Also, if you show up to a Con coated in coal dust, smeared with Horse Manure, and showing obvious signs of bubonic plague they tend not to let you in.



bpeace wrote:
I don't see why people wet their pants about photos in games so much. I love them. It's much cheaper than acquiring artwork and works very well IMHO. I can't wait to see this game.


I agree, as long as the content and style of the photos fits the theme of the game.



EDIT: PS, Dr Vikstrom reminds me of a REALLY BAD stage magician. And, well, Captain Snowy looks a BIT like John Cleese to me...
But I like the box cover...
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  • Edited Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:04 am
  • Posted Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:57 pm
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First, let me say that I'm excited about this game since it's got both Steampunk and Scandinavia in it, but

Quote:
Players must also find a magic instrument – the Organ of Snorri


had me laughing. I showed it to my girlfriend and she couldn't help laughing as well.
See, it sounds a bit like a pun in Swedish - "Snorre" is essentially the equivalent of "Willy", and you can imagine the effect "Willy's organ" would have on the English-speaking community.

That being said, the Scandinavian market is a small one compared to the others, so if you can stand a few laughs - go for it! laugh
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  • Posted Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:25 am
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Patrick C.
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Labyrinth: The War On Terror is historically inaccurate & politically biased. It's the one popular game that violates BGG's requirements to keep politics out of gen. discussion. And yet it receives special treatment =US-centric views of this site.
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Let me restate my position. I'm personally not opposed to the use of photos. My reaction was to the style chosen for this game. Quite honestly, I think it looks horrible. Speaking as a photographer - computerized effects do not look real. They don't go with the other artwork that's been chosen.

Perhaps a better way would be to use sepia toned photos that have been made to look older than they are. Not sure. But less is more. The effects used on those character cards certainly pulls me out of the theme. They remind me of the faux video segments used in the game Myst. Twenty years ago that would have been a compliment. It's not one now.

Sorry, don't mean to diss anyone's baby. I just think there's an issue here and I can tell I'm not alone in my reaction. My intent is to offer constructive criticism.
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  • Edited Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:35 am
  • Posted Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:57 am
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marco valtriani
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geas wrote:
had me laughing. I showed it to my girlfriend and she couldn't help laughing as well.
See, it sounds a bit like a pun in Swedish - "Snorre" is essentially the equivalent of "Willy", and you can imagine the effect "Willy's organ" would have on the English-speaking community.


lol.
Hey, Willy can be misterious and scary as everyone else, ok*?!?

Anyway, Snorri is the name of the man that is supposed to wrote the Edda, an Icelandic collection of mythological tales. The work is often assumed to be written by Snorri Sturluson in the first half of 13th century.
One of the "ucronic" factors is that in the game exists a lost book from the Edda, containing cryptic prophecies about Ragnarok and a magical city far away from the north.

The "part" of the real Edda that Paolo took as reference I think it is the "Gylvaginning" (Gylfi's Deception), that is a collection of legends and tales about gods and their battles; it ends with a narration of the Fimbulvetr and of the Ragnarok. Paolo gave me just a smattering about northern mythology, so forgive me if i mispell something or if I write some little imprecisions. You will find many more (and more accurate) informations on the rulebook.

*Try to put it in italic on a Lovecraft's style phrase.
"And I saw all those bodies, and, among them, I saw him.
I saw Willy."


travvller wrote:
Sorry, don't mean to diss anyone's baby. I just think there's an issue here and I can tell I'm not alone in my reaction. My intent is to offer constructive criticism.


Althrough I feel sorry you don't like the style of 011, I can understand your point of view. I'm sure that, as a photographer, you got a reasoned system to approach any picture (and/or any effect on it), and a "refined taste" that come from your profession.
I simply hope that the style of effects applied on pictures would not be the discriminant factor to evaluate the game
I may think that illustrations of Puerto Rico are quite poor, but hell, the game is great anyway!

Also, to pinpoint: I'm the game designer, not the photographer or the graphic artist, so for me it's better to talk about the game (gameplay, mechanics) and not about the graphics that, furthermore, are still work in progress.
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  • Edited Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:06 am
  • Posted Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:38 am
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Paolo Vallerga
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travvller wrote:
I just think there's an issue here and I can tell I'm not alone in my reaction. My intent is to offer constructive criticism.


Thanks, I appreciate your suggestions. All the artwork is still work in progress. The best use for this thread is to speak with Marco about mechanics and gameplay... also because I don't write here very often.
Paolo
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  • Edited Fri Mar 11, 2011 11:33 am
  • Posted Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:53 am
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Lee Fisher
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What more can you tell us about the gears? I'd love to see a picture. Can each gear be manipulated by players?
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  • Posted Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:50 pm
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marco valtriani
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lfisher wrote:
What more can you tell us about the gears? I'd love to see a picture. Can each gear be manipulated by players?


Well, I can't say everything, but I can say something.

First, take a look.
This picture is the "scheme" of the three gears.



Each gear is "blocked" on the board by a small plastic hub.
Also, each gear has an icon on every cog, which represents the different things you can do during your turn.
Obviously some kind of graphic effect on the board will show what triplet of cogs is "active".

As you rotate one gear (no matter which of them), the other two will move to. The two external gears move clockwise, the central one moves anticlockwise.
Two gears are used to determine the movement you're allowed to do (by foot, or using a steam machine), and the last one determines the action of your character at the end of your turn.

Every turn you have to rotate the gears by a limited amount of "clicks", and this will tell you what your character will do during the turn.
Basically, the gears are an "advanced" action selection system, that mix a wide range of possible actions with a "restricting" system that cuts down automatically your options (leaving anyway to you a good range of choices).

I'm voluntarily omitting many details (otherwise Paolo will probably lock me in a room in Fenrir's company), but there are a lot of nice things revolving around the core mechanism.
One thing I can (and I strongly wish) to say is that almost everything is under a player's control. For example: if you perform a weak action is because you choose to do it in the wrong conditions, not because "you roll a die and you're f*cked up".
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  • Edited Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:59 pm
  • Posted Fri Mar 11, 2011 1:55 pm
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Stephen Avery
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Biggossa wrote:
travvller wrote:
I just think there's an issue here and I can tell I'm not alone in my reaction. My intent is to offer constructive criticism.


Thanks, I appreciate your suggestions. All the artwork is still work in progress. The best use for this thread is to speak with Marco about mechanics and gameplay... also because I don't write here very often.
Paolo



In that case, I hope you don't use resource gathering and worker placement and instead use more dynamic mechanisms involving risk and conflict. The game has a very evocative adventure theme which those types of mechanics are just not going to support.

Several years ago I was excited to sit down to "Journey to the center of the Earth". What perils awaited? What challenges did I need to overcome?
How would the game capture the genre?
Apparently set collection and efficient actions define the work of Jules Verne.

And how many people are still playing it? When was the last time some one in your group regailed their heroic voyage by collecting their complete set of fossils? And the real kicker is that is was a pretty good game. It just got lost in the eurogame shuffle.

My point is that Eurogame mechanics are not the way to go on this.

Steve"AT Lobbyist"Avery
 
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  • Posted Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:12 pm
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Lee Fisher
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Thanks Marco!
 
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  • Posted Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:07 pm
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marco valtriani
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That's something I can reply

011 has a "eurogame" flavour not because of typical "eurogame" mechanics (such as the ones you mentioned) but because I focused on a deterministic resolution of actions instead of putting in "skill checks", "to-hit rolls", and so on.
As I said, I decided to work "along the lines of a eurogame", but the plot is not "attached" to the rules: on the contrary, rules are shaped around the plot.
But, anyway, I still consider my game design style as "european".

Ok, I know, it's kinda confusing. I'll try to explain.

011 is an investigation game. You collect "clues", and clues are "something you may use to obtain informations".
Informations will lead you to solve the plot.
The "eurogame" factor shows here: the informations you may find depend on what Character you choose, and what you do with him; your tactical choices are really more important than luck, and mechanics gives you the possibility to control what happens.

Also, "how the story proceed" is more important than "how much a player identifies himself with his fictional identity".
In fact, players are in the middle between the roles of actors and of directors of the story. Both roles are active, but different. But, anyway, the focus is that their decisions about "how" they do things are really important to see how the tale will end.

About the risk... in 011 you may obviously choose to perform risky actions. But you can also use the clues you have or the powers of your character to reduce (even to "zero") the risk of what you do*.

I'm wondering if I explained my point of view, or if everyone is more confused now...

* In a few words, if you try to discover something about a location or a character without a scrap of evidence, it's hard to find something useful, even if it's not impossible.
Otherwise, searching something using a lot of energies will take a lot of time, and will also exhaust your resources.
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  • Edited Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:33 pm
  • Posted Fri Mar 11, 2011 4:04 pm
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Steve Duff
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Izraphael wrote:


As you rotate one gear (no matter which of them), the other two will move to. The two external gears move clockwise, the central one moves anticlockwise.
Two gears are used to determine the movement you're allowed to do (by foot, or using a steam machine), and the last one determines the action of your character at the end of your turn.


Woah. That's an awesome mechanism. Literally.

An expansion with different cogs on the gears, even with the same actions would produce different results.
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  • Posted Fri Mar 11, 2011 8:03 pm
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Michele Mura
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Thanks Marco for quoting my name and my game Jerusalem is his article.

I've tried this game during last "IdeaG" in Turin (what a coincidence!) and I think it's really funny and well themed. The three gears mechanism is truly a new big idea and they "work" very fine.

Can't wait for this game!
(obviously signed by the designer..)
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  • Posted Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:04 am
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Sebastian G.
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Quote:
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe


Haha, intentional BladeRunner quote?
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  • Edited Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:30 am
  • Posted Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:29 am
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marco valtriani
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Busted!
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  • Posted Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:45 am
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nosdok
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Well, regarding to photos issue. First at all my respect to Paolo's work, but just think on this, imagine the comic The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen with photos instead of draws! what a comic would be!! of course a comic is not a board game, nevertheless the feeling of playing would be different, and in my opinion it would gain a lot with draws instead of photos.

You have an example with the draw Agricola decks (although they are based on real people) http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/39256/agricola-o... and the really ugly photos deck http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/39090/agricola-l...

one last marketing advice: remember that the product has to contain no what you like but what the users enjoy.
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  • Posted Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:59 am
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marco valtriani
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I prefere to speak not about pictures\graphics\marketing, or I will simply repeat what I said again and again (I'm the game designer, artwork is work in progress, and so on).
I'm sure that, both in the role of artist and of publisher, Paolo knows enough about making games to make an excellent work.
Since he read and write here just occasionally, I think you may ask him directly everything about graphics by private messages or writing to Scribabs.

UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
An expansion with different cogs on the gears, even with the same actions would produce different results.


Yep, I agree. The whole system is good to implement variants and many different gameplays. It's a bit premature to talk about expansions, but surely the "mechanism" has a wide range of applications.
 
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  • Posted Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:43 pm
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Gláucio Reis
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StephenAvery wrote:
In that case, I hope you don't use resource gathering and worker placement and instead use more dynamic mechanisms involving risk and conflict. The game has a very evocative adventure theme which those types of mechanics are just not going to support.

I disagree. Instead of the nth adventure game centered on dice-based combat and skill checks, or the nth Euro about Italian Renaissance, I much prefer to see a Euro with an adventure theme. (The photos and association with Therion is another issue that I have already commented elsewhere, though.)

While I agree with most of your comments about Journey to the Center of the Earth and was myself disappointed with the implementation of the theme (particularly by the lack of dinosaurs), it's hard to say it was the only thing that made it less successful than it might have been. Although I still play it and like it very much, the high level of luck probably had at least as much weight in how it was received.

It was perfectly possible for the game not to be about collecting fossils, have some adventure feel, and still be a Euro. Forgive me if this sounds like self-promotion, but my (PnP) game Kingdom of Heroes has area control and set collection as its main mechanics, and I think they work pretty well with the classic Fantasy adventure theme. Similarly, Andrei Burago's Conquest of the Fallen Lands is also a Euro based on area control, and so is the quite successful Cave Troll (even if people overlook its Euro nature because it's from Fantasy Flight).
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  • Edited Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:00 pm
  • Posted Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:53 pm
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Alf Seegert
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This game sounds absolutely fascinating. Can't wait to play it.

Congratulations, Marco!
 
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  • Posted Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:54 pm
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Bruno D.
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travvller wrote:
Excited about any game that uses steampunk.

Do hope that the final edition doesn't use the Photoshopped character cards shown in the current game listing here. Maybe I'm in the minority, but to me that look just ruins the theme. Will keep an eye on this regardless.

Edit: Just saw the poll about this very issue. It's currently showing almost 72% against using photos.


I just have to second this. I could't believe what I saw in the game's gallery, to the point I started reading more about the game hoping there was some explanation about it. Please, consider different artwork. Of course, respectfully, just my opinion.
 
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  • Posted Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:48 am
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marco valtriani
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GSReis wrote:
Instead of the nth adventure game centered on dice-based combat and skill checks, or the nth Euro about Italian Renaissance, I much prefer to see a Euro with an adventure theme.


That was - the more the less - my starting point.
Scribabs published in the past years some old-style adventures (Tempus Draconis, Daemonibus), and also euro-ish games (SATOR is in fact an abstract game, even if it has a nice "dress").
With 011, Paolo asked me to "experiment" something new, making a strong themed adventure game, but without the typical "american-style-adventure" mechanics.
I simply said "why not?"
Imho, a "euro-twist" could make things more interesting.

For example: in the game there are some auctions*.
Auction is a typical eurogame mechanic, which tends to "untie" naturally from the plot.
That's true, I agree: auctions are terribly unrealistic (unless you're designing a game about an auction house, of course).
But they also are devilishily good for a lot of things.

Even omitting the "self-balance factor" of auctions, a bidding phase helped my a lot while trying to enhance the "suspance factor".
The auction puts in the game a kind of indetermination that, in addition, comes from another player, and not from a random "accident card".
It let two players fight, without having a fight between two fictional characters; in addition, it's interactive, and not a russian rulette between a player and a dice roll.
That's too much "euro-ish"? Hell, I don't give a monkey's about it!
It works! It makes the tension among players rise, and forces them to be always careful about what they're doing, because they will need their energies for the next auctions. In a time run game, tension is a good thing (my opinion)!
Just to avoid misunderstandings: the auction in 011 is really a small part of the game, it just was good for my example.

Anyway, leaving aside detailed examples, I can say for certain that 011 is not a copy of a proven formula. Someone may dislike this choice, but I hope that many players will like our research for a different approach to the "genre".

* Auction is the kind of mechanism that makes eurogames detractors scream: "Beware! An auction! Let's take our pitchforks!"
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  • Edited Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:38 pm
  • Posted Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:53 pm
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Stephen Avery
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I'm not saying that some euro mechanics can't be incorperated. In Earth Reborn there is an auction mechanic that seizes control of initiative that is very successfully implemented and adds a lot to the tactics of the game.

However you walk a fine line when decide to make things "deterministic". Ries sited Cave Troll as a successful euro adventure game. I would say it a abstract game with an adventure theme. It doesn't carry the theme though. No one ever lists Cave Troll as their favorite adventure game. It is as adventury as Luna.

All I'm saying is call a spade a spade. A Euro is not going to carry an adventure theme well without the element of risk.

For what it is worth, I like the photoshopped steampunk images. I think you could go even more over the top with some of the costuming.

Good luck with your endeavor. At the very least you're getting a good bit of buz from your choices. Any publicity is good publicity at this point.

Steve"2 cents"Avery
 
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  • Posted Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:36 pm
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Gláucio Reis
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StephenAvery wrote:
Ries sited Cave Troll as a successful euro adventure game. I would say it a abstract game with an adventure theme. It doesn't carry the theme though. No one ever lists Cave Troll as their favorite adventure game.

No, I did not say it was a Euro adventure. That would be Candamir: The First Settlers. I used Cave Troll as an example of Euro with an adventure theme, which is almost what you just said. The theme implementation is not perfect - partially because the game was originally designed with an Indiana Jones-like archaeology theme - but I wouldn't call it an abstract, and the special powers of heroes and monsters are thematic enough.

Quote:
A Euro is not going to carry an adventure theme well without the element of risk.

And this, of course, is completely subjective. I suppose anyone who prefers Ameritrash will likely have the same opinion as yours.
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  • Edited Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:03 pm
  • Posted Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:00 pm
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Stephen Avery
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GSReis wrote:
StephenAvery wrote:
Ries sited Cave Troll as a successful euro adventure game. I would say it a abstract game with an adventure theme. It doesn't carry the theme though. No one ever lists Cave Troll as their favorite adventure game.

No, I did not say it was a Euro adventure. That would be Candamir: The First Settlers. I used Cave Troll as an example of Euro with an adventure theme, which is almost what you just said. The theme implementation is not perfect - partially because the game was originally designed with an Indiana Jones-like archaeology theme - but I wouldn't call it an abstract, and the special powers of heroes and monsters are thematic enough.

Quote:
A Euro is not going to carry an adventure theme well without the element of risk.

And this, of course, is completely subjective. I suppose anyone who prefers Ameritrash will likely have the same opinion as yours.


Ok Good point- all of this is subjective. However can you give me an example of a good adventure that doesn't involve risk? It is kinda the defintion of adventure.

However, I'm not being obtuse, I realize that as a game designer you've got a certain audience to which you need to appeal. If he thinks he can sell more games as a euro then he should probably go that route. It seems to me though that he is all about the theme and Euros are about the mechanic and not so much about the theme.

Steve"just sayin"Avery

 
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  • Posted Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:25 pm
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Gláucio Reis
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StephenAvery wrote:
However can you give me an example of a good adventure that doesn't involve risk? It is kinda the defintion of adventure.

To a certain extent, I actually agree with you on this point. Adventure games are a genre on their own, and although I think it might be possible to design one without luck, it certainly is one of their expected features. I don't advocate for total determinism, but I do find the usual luck/stragegy ratio in such games usually too high for my tastes.

However, I don't think Marco is concerned about the definition of "adventure game" and just meant he wanted to design a Eurogame with an adventure theme, or a game that is not too abstract and still evokes a sense of adventure without relying on dice.

Quote:
However, I'm not being obtuse, I realize that as a game designer you've got a certain audience to which you need to appeal. If he thinks he can sell more games as a euro then he should probably go that route.

I can't speak for him, but as an aspiring game designer, I can tell you that making design decisions to "sell more games" doesn't really enter into the equation. That's the publisher's concern. The designer just tries to make the game do well what he wants it to do. If he succeeds, the game will find its audience.

Quote:
It seems to me though that he is all about the theme and Euros are about the mechanic and not so much about the theme.

This is a common misconception (and criticism) among Ameritrash fans. A Euro will never have as much chrome as the average FFG stuff, but that doesn't mean the mechanics are completely disconnected from theme. One does not exclude the other, but obviously some games will have better or worse integration between theme and mechanics.
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  • Posted Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:09 pm
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marco valtriani
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I essentially agree with Gláucio.

GSReis wrote:
However, I don't think Marco is concerned about the definition of "adventure game" and just meant he wanted to design a Eurogame with an adventure theme, or a game that is not too abstract and still evokes a sense of adventure without relying on dice.


I essentialy agree with Gláucio, my purpose was the more the less the one I highlighted in bold.
To be even more precise: the starting point was "to make an adventure game focusing on investigation", and as I think that "deduction" and "dice rolls" (or "lot of luck") are not a good pair*, I immediatly leant to a core of eurogame mechanics.
(And that's why, in RPGs, I like more the gumshoe system than D100 for investigation games)

I think there's a great difference between something unexpected you must face, on equal terms with your opponents, and "luck".

So, there are a lot of "suspance" factors in 011, but some of them, like Events, are optional (use them if you like them!), and some of them leave to each player the choice to select how to face them.
Anyway, I'm working on the final version of rules, and I think that Scribabs will let me publish something about them before the official release of the game (also, 011 is played as a preview on italian fairs, so its mechanisms are a "open secret").

* My opinion. I simply think it's frustrating.
I go into the police station.
"Roll a die: with 1-3 you get a stray bullet in your leg and you lose 2 life points. Otherwise, you get a clue."

Hell, why?!?
Maybe I hate it because I always roll "1".
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  • Edited Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:58 pm
  • Posted Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:41 am
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A work of art is a VERY difficult thing to judge before it is complete. One really cannot comment very much on the look of a game (or painting, or sculpture, or film, or whatever) until the work as a WHOLE is able to be assessed with few exceptions.

I actually love the look so far. We only make progress when we are not afraid to take chances. This game seems to be pushing a lot of boundaries: why not art? And these are not simple photographs. The silver nitrate litho appearance seems to be entirely true to the theme and adds greatly as a visual bridge between the real world and the mythological. An illustration, I think, would DETRACT, not enhance, the look. I've got hundreds of games with thousands of illustrations. I have nothing that looks quite like this.

And that's good. If anything, doesn't go far enough!

Push the boundaries, people! Our hobby is absolutely overwhelmed with formula and repetition. Designers and artists should be encouraged when they do something genuinely original.

Kudos on art and design choices (SO FAR... still need to see the actual game obviously).
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  • Posted Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:59 am
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TiwazTyrsfist wrote:


Also, if you show up to a Con coated in coal dust, smeared with Horse Manure, and showing obvious signs of bubonic plague they tend not to let you in.


Pretty good description of some card-floppers I've encountered at game cons.
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  • Posted Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:07 pm
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Paolo Vallerga
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Tumulorum Fossor wrote:

...Push the boundaries, people!.


I wanted to write this sentence. I completely agree. Is my stile of publisher, is my style of designer. I would like to explore and connect different world... I believe this is "011"
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  • Posted Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:41 am
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Lee Fisher
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How do you pronounce the title?
 
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  • Posted Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:45 am
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Paolo Vallerga
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lfisher wrote:
How do you pronounce the title?

Like you want... I pronounce "dzεro'undit[ʃ]i" in phonetic alphabet but I'm Italian...
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  • Posted Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:53 am
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marco valtriani
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The teaser of 011 is online... take a look!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d301HxX5rZI
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  • Posted Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:37 am
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marco valtriani
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I added some more images and I updated the box cover... enjoy.
 
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  • Edited Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:04 am
  • Posted Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:03 am
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