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Point 2 Point 47: Wargame Rankings and Command and Colors: Napoleonics

Posted by Jason White

05 Jun 2011

Jason White

(gamingguy)

United States
Ashburn
Virginia

This episode finds another guest reviewer submitting a segment; Chad, better known as Grimnir, offers a discussion of the Command and Colors system as a whole, along with a review of Command and Colors: Napoleonics. Jason also works through some feedback and news and discusses the games he's been playing lately. Jason also discusses an interesting geeklist that changes the lens through which we look at wargame rankings. This inspires him to look at some other ways of looking at the data. Which list best represents the best in wargaming? Be sure to check out this month's poll and offer your opinion.

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Poll

Which game list discussed best represents the best in wargaming?
	Your Answer	Vote Percent	Vote Count
a. Wargame rankings from BGG.		50.0%	17
b. David Dockter's "Death to the Cult of the New" Geeklist.		38.2%	13
c. Wargames ranked by "geek rating," includes expansions.		8.8%	3
d. Wargames ranked in the general BGG game list.		2.9%	1
	Voters		34

This poll is now closed. 34 answers

Poll created by gamingguy

Closes: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:00 am

3 Comments

Mon Jun 6, 2011 2:49 am

Post Comment

Jon Williamson

(Capt_S)

Canada
Calgary
AB

Very interesting and entertaining episode. Thanks for putting it together for us. And a special thanks to Chad for the section on C&C which I thought was superb.

I too thought David's lists have been thought provoking to say the least. I actually voted for Option B above since I feel it best answers the question "what is the best". However, there is a proviso or two; the main one being that post-2008 games are not included. One could argue that it should take years for a game's "greatness" to be established. Perhaps.

It is almost like there are two lists to consider. One being "The Best Wargames of All Time" and the other "The Most Popular Games Today", the latter of which I think is handled by Option A. One is an All Star list, the other is a list of what is currently getting played and enjoyed.

Like in sports, only time will tell if that hot shot rookie will pan out long term. Statistically great last year, will his numbers hold up over a 15 year career?

Posted Wed Jun 8, 2011 3:48 am
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Nick Avtges

(nix342)

United States
Bridgewater
Massachusetts

CONCEALED -3

Brrrrrr!!!

Another great episode, thanks Jason and Chad!

Although I hate "is/isn't a wargame" debates, I'm going to start one. I'm a little bit shocked that you even question whether Here I Stand is a wargame. There is plenty of direct conflict in the game. Even if you discount more abstract forms of conflict such as piracy and the religious battles, there are still plenty of instances of one stack of units attacking another stack of units. I would say there is at least as much battling in Here I Stand as there is in Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage or Washington's War. I'd even go so far to say that well played games of these latter two will have significantly fewer battles than a well played game of Here I Stand.

So, I'm calling you out on that one, Jason. I know you and Scott aren't big fans of Here I Stand (personally, I think you're missing out) but I would like to hear you defend the position that it is not a wargame.

One thing which I agree with Jason is that Fighting Formations: Grossdeutschland Motorized Infantry Division is a very good game. I've played it quite a few times now and enjoy it quite a bit. In the long run, however, I think it will rate below Combat Commander: Europe for me. While the game as a whole is excellent, there are a few small details that keep it from being a great game. Flipping can sometimes be a hassle. There is a lot of dice rolling, sometimes for very little effect. The colors of the two sides are both muted to the point where they can be occasionally difficult to discern. The method of differentiating squads and platoons is not ideal. While the scenarios are definitely replayable, I don't think they are quite as replayable as Combat Commander's scenarios. And, of course, there are significantly fewer of them (for now). The lack of a random scenario generator also impacts replayability. I also prefer the chaos that is ever present in Combat Commander but is not really there in Fighting Formations, even when you use the random event optional rule.

I am very much looking forward to your full review on Fighting Formations.

Thanks for another great show!

Posted Thu Jun 9, 2011 2:54 pm
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Jason White

(gamingguy)

United States
Ashburn
Virginia

Thanks, Nick,

I will probably read/respond to this in 48.

Good points about Here I Stand. I think it qualifies as a wargame, and your points about Hannibal and Washington's War are spot on (especially WW). My point probably should be "well, if we're questioning all of this other stuff, why not question Here I Stand?"

And I probably am missing out. Played another game that I will discuss in 48. What I think is happening is that I'm playing in a negotiation game where I don't fully understand the terms of the negotiations. So I'm getting squeezed out. I compared it to ruling a country, but sending a child as my envoy to the other nations.

I probably should play it more so that I can more skillfully negotiate. The game clearly has a lot going for it. But, right now, I'm missing it.

Notice I haven't reviewed it yet. And that's because I'm not prepared to comment on it without more plays.

Posted Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:02 am
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An Extra Point: The Next Step for Point 2 Point

Point 2 Point 47: Wargame Rankings and Command and Colors: Napoleonics

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