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Dragonslayers - A game in the making!

Dragonslayers is a game about treasure, gold and glory - and of course slaying dragons. I sent out copies of the game to a crafty and trusty lot of playtesters. In this here blog my playtesters and I will discuss the game, how it plays out, what works well and what less, what is obviously broken and how we could change the rules to make Dragonslayers an enjoyable experience for gamers old and young!
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Complete deck revision

Robert Seater
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I just posted a file containing an XLS spreadsheet with a complete revision of the decks. It also lists the rule changes I have been using (on the final sheet of the file). It should get through admin modding soon. A few notes (in no particular order):

- Currently, the game last 4 years, before you are forced into the showdown battle. It makes the game last a little longer, but is seems about fair (and gives you more time with the higher level monsters). The lower cash influx makes the late game quite tense, so I decided not to rush it. That was a recent change, so I'm not quite sure it's right -- it might make the game too easy for some characters or if you get a good start. But so far, I still lose most of the time, so things are looking good.

- I've been playing games in about 30-45 minutes. I lose a lot, but I usually feel like I could have won if things had gone a little better or if I'd made better choices. The end of each year tends to be a bit easy, but then the new year brings new forced battles that are trouble.

- Much testing is needed, especially on the relative value of the different heroes. It's hard to get a lot of data on those, and some heroes are better late game, but have a rough time getting started. Their powers are also weird enough that it's hard to assess them in the abstract.

- In the published game, I think 7 of the 14 heroes will be flagged with an icon meaning "not a good idea to use as your starting hero if you are new to the game". The ones I have flagged right now are
(a) all the ones with an attack of -4,
(b) the assassin, and
(c)the shapeshifter.
Those guys are trickier to play in the early game, and can be a bit tedious and random if you don't equip them properly. As such, they aren't a good play experience for new player but they're good for some variety.

- I'm also curious about win percentages, what monster tends to do player in (when they lose), and how players tend to win (when they do)?
(a) the player kills grimlock before year 4
(b) the player kills grimlock in year 4
(c) the player kills grimlock alone in the showdown
(d) the player kills grimlock with some buddies in the final showdown

- I recast all events (except the Curse) as locations and/or terrains, to simplify things. I was worried at first, but I find that I don't miss them -- and there's no memory at all. Curse might be better named as "winter" or "snowfall" to go with the 'time passing' theme.

- I also added some more ways to get treasures (including buying them from the Hermit). I raised the number of distinct treasures at each level to 8, and I made the cursed items a mix of good and bad effects -- they often mess you up, but they don't completely hose you. I also added a super-treasure, the "weapon of legend" which can be bought for 500 from the witch. The intent was for it to offer a way to win the game with just 1 or 2 heroes, rather than the 3-4 that I normally see. It also shouldn't come out every game, so it's exciting when it does.

- I trimmed down the number of terrains (to 6). This way, the terrain stick around for longer each, and it feels like you're slogging through the landscape.

- On my prototype, I've been using a graphic layout where there is an icon for each LP and an icon for each DEF, which I cover up as damage is dealt and wounds received. That reduces the math that I have to do, which I find helps further de-fiddle the game.

- This is still just a revision of the solo rules. Now that the basic game is harder, I feel like I'm ready to catch up on the multi-play discussions that have been going on.
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Subscribe sub options Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:23 pm
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Andreas Propst
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Hey Rob!

Thanks for your tireless efforts on the game. I feel like you would do all the work I was supposed to do

Keep up the good work and tell me if you need anything from me!

How do the new events/locations work? Does only the last one revealed trigger? In the current rules you can only visit one location or attack the monster, right? So how would the new locations work out?

Maybe I just need to have a look at the spreadsheet!

Thanks again for your hard work Rob!
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  • Posted Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:04 pm
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Robert Seater
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jilocasin wrote:

Keep up the good work and tell me if you need anything from me!


Make a pretty version of the new deck, using your templates! That way we can get the playtesters to help evaluate the revisions.

jilocasin wrote:

How do the new events/locations work? Does only the last one revealed trigger? In the current rules you can only visit one location or attack the monster, right? So how would the new locations work out?


I'm using the rule "whenever you reveal a location, you may choose to immediately visit it. Then, keep going until you find a monster". So, locations and monsters are not exclusive. I keep going back and forth on this, but for now, you can do both.
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  • Edited Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:09 pm
  • Posted Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:08 pm
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Andreas Propst
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Will do as soon as I can get hold of playtesters around here. My only two gamer friends who would do that with me are currently busy with final exams That is kinda embarrasing and sounds like a lame excuse, but I don't have too many gamers among my friends, which is a bad thing for a game designer...
 
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  • Edited Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:28 pm
  • Posted Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:24 pm
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Chewtron Volbacca
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I like the idea of the template. I was wondering how you made it and about how big it is.
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  • Posted Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:33 pm
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Andreas Propst
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The card templates I posted have standard Poker card size.
They should fit easily into card sleeves...
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  • Posted Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:07 am
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Chewtron Volbacca
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Oops! Meant to ask about this:

Quote:
- On my prototype, I've been using a graphic layout where there is an icon for each LP and an icon for each DEF, which I cover up as damage is dealt and wounds received. That reduces the math that I have to do, which I find helps further de-fiddle the game.

How it was made, size, etc.
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  • Posted Sat Jun 18, 2011 2:01 am
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Michael
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Trimming down the terrains is a good idea. Did you change it so that the terrain you were in at the end of a year, is the one that you are in at the start of the year?
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  • Posted Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:58 am
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Michael
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Also are you playing solo or as a party?
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  • Posted Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:59 am
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Robert Seater
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mylittlepwny wrote:
Trimming down the terrains is a good idea. Did you change it so that the terrain you were in at the end of a year, is the one that you are in at the start of the year?


Yes! That is helpful for continuity (although it doesn't fundamentally change the game).

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  • Posted Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:28 pm
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Robert Seater
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mylittlepwny wrote:
Also are you playing solo or as a party?


I was going solo. I wanted to get the solo game at the appropriate level difficulty before diving into multi-play options. That way I have a better calibration. I'm still very keen on having a good coop/semi-coop version.
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  • Posted Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:29 pm
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Robert Seater
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joefain wrote:
Oops! Meant to ask about this:

Quote:
- On my prototype, I've been using a graphic layout where there is an icon for each LP and an icon for each DEF, which I cover up as damage is dealt and wounds received. That reduces the math that I have to do, which I find helps further de-fiddle the game.

How it was made, size, etc.


Well, I hand-drew stuff on blank cards I have for prototyping. With regular poker-sized cards, my smallish glass stones work well for marking off damage. Sadly, there would not be much room left for art. One option I discussed with Andreas is having larger cards for the adventure deck, designed to look like you are browsing through a tome of magic:



I'll need to discuss the production logistics of this with other folks at CGF, but I bet it will be fine.
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  • Posted Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:35 pm
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Robert Seater
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Here are some of my low-tech prototype cards. I want to go back to having ATK and INT bonuses lines up on the edge of the card, but I'm liking having the icons for DEF and LP in the middles. It makes tracking damage less mathy.

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  • Posted Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:40 pm
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I'm starting to see how you're coming up with ideas so fast. I suppose a seasoned game designer develops a lot of these kind of techniques over time. Thanks for the pictures!
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  • Posted Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:22 pm
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Robert Seater
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The file finally got through modding:

Here it is in XLS:
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/67806/draft-overhaul-6-17-...

Here is a slightly revised version in PDF:
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/67880/complete-deck-revisi...
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  • Posted Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:56 pm
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