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My mini(ature) dilemma

James Fung
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I'm not a bits man. I prefer great game mechanics with okay components to okay mechanics with great bits. That said, lately I've been thinking a lot about getting a space combat game with miniatures. As a kid, I liked A New Hope and Return of the Jedi because they had those imagination searing space battles at the end. The fascination has been stoked over the years by those huge battles in Star Trek: DS9 and Babylon 5 and various other media. (I'm also tempted to get Classic Battletech Introductory Box Set because I grew up watching Macross/Robotech.)

I've been shopping around spaceship miniatures for a while, I'm currently torn between getting Battleship Galaxies: The Saturn Offensive Game Set or Full Thrust.

Battleship Galaxies: Things BG has in its favor:

1) It's cheap: For $40-some from online retailers, you get 20 plastic minis plus a load of other stuff.

2) Expansions: The game is designed with the ability to expand, so maybe in a year we'll see some more ships coming out.

Things against it:

3) Gameplay: Reviews of gameplay are a bit mixed. It's definitely on the simpler end of the spectrum, which is fine, because I don't have opponents who want to spend 4-hours plotting out a one-on-one battle (I'm looking at you, Attack Vector: Tactical). However, the most damning criticism seems to be the lack of maneuver, which I feel is crucial for the mental image of space combat.

Bottom line is that I probably won't play the game as printed. For instance, I'll probably borrow a notation/mechanic from the space game I'm designing: if a shield peg is on one side of the hex, it means shields are concentrated on that side. That facing and the two adjacent have double shield rating while all others have none. If a marker is placed at a vertex, the shields are concentrated on the adjacent faces. Having shields being weaker in some areas will encourage ships to maneuver for a better shot.

Full Thrust:

1) Emphasis on fun: FT has quick movement and a variety of weapons and systems in a pretty rules light package. As I said, I don't want a 4-hour game of bookkeeping.

2) Miniature round-up: FT is miniature-independent, so I've been window shopping miniatures. For dirt cheap, see the bottom of this page: 2.55 GBP for 12 minis of various sizes and styles.

However, I'm tempted to get this. For 30GBP (about $48, rising to $55 after shipping), you can get 2 different fleets of 8 ships of varying size. Actually, I made an external blog post here. While more expensive, they will be bigger than the above cheap ones, but probably not as big as the largest BG ships.

3) Miniature gaming?: I've never played a miniature game. Something in the back of my head balks at having to bring out a ruler to move my units or measure range or measure angles accurately. FT only allows course changes in increments of 30 degrees, so why not just put it on a hex-grid?

Of course, what I could do is get BG for the cheap minis and hex-map and mod the rules until I'm happy, even using them to play FT if I wanted. But the FT miniatures look pretty awesome too.
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Subscribe sub options Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:30 pm
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Craig Richards
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Have you checked out Firestorm: Armada at all?

The mini's are amazing and not too badly priced (in the UK at least, not sure about the states) and the rules are geared towards quick but tactical space combat taking into account the thrid axis, albeit in a very light manor. IT also has ship creation rules.

It is also mini independent. Everything is measured from the centre of the flight stand as the minis represent a ship that would be much smaller if to scale.
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  • Posted Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:44 pm
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James Fung
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mach1na wrote:
Have you checked out Firestorm: Armada at all?

Thanks for the pointer. I'll take a look.

Edit: Say I got a starter fleet of 1 BB, 3 CA, 6 FF. How big are they?
 
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  • Edited Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:10 pm
  • Posted Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:04 pm
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Todd Warnken
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Get it on. Got to get it on. No choice but to get it on. Mandate, GET IT ON!
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I have the Soryilian (sp) starter box. The BB is about 6 inches long, CA is about 3 and the frigates are about 1.5 inches long.
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  • Posted Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:46 pm
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Martin Larouche
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If you have seen and enjoyed B5, why not take a look at Babylon 5: A Call to Arms (Second Edition).

It's not a looker, but the gameplay is pretty good.

You get tons of factions and all their ships playable from the get go. Each faction has it's flavor, the game is fast and can include tons of ships on each side.

It also can be played on any surface, as it doesn't require a board.
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  • Posted Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:00 am
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James Fung
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Mundane wrote:
I have the Soryilian (sp) starter box. The BB is about 6 inches long, CA is about 3 and the frigates are about 1.5 inches long.

Wow, 6" is massive. Not a lot of information about the game itself, though. Though I suppose people can use whatever system they want.
 
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  • Edited Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:36 am
  • Posted Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:02 am
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Aron Clark
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Why don't you do both? Buy Battleship Galaxies and then use the ships to also play Full Thrust. Full Thrust rules are a free download. Great thing about miniature gaming is that you can use the matieral to pull double duty.

I see that is your basic conclusion.

You can certainly play FT on a 1" hex map. I did a brief article on FT heading management with hex bases: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/475698/what-base-type-do...

I'm south bay myself so we could possibly meet for a game. You going to Pacificon?
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  • Posted Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:18 am
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David Gonzalez Rice
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For me, the overriding concern is often: "Can I teach AND play this game in 2 hours?" I rarely get to play twice with the same person, and Battleship Galaxies / Memoir 44 / Star Wars: Queen's Gambit is about as heavy a game as most of my friends and relatives can handle. I picked Battleship Galaxies over more complex spaceship combat systems because I know my little brother can and will play when he comes to visit.

Another way to think about this might be: who is most likely to play this game with you, and what will he/she/they be more into?

To be clear: I don't regard this method of choosing games to be a sacrifice or a compromise at all. I am always playing the meta-game: which is to play as many games as possible.
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  • Posted Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:18 am
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Scott Smith
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As has been pointed out, Full Thrust has the advantage of not being miniature dependent. It is also highly adaptable and you can create mods for any sci-fi setting that you like. I have a Star Wars mod that I've been running at conventions the past few years, and am currently working on a Star Trek mod.

The rules are also highly --modular-- for lack of a better term. You have a great deal of leeway with what rules you wish to play with and can add complexity to suit your taste.

My .02 credits.
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  • Posted Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:38 am
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James Fung
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aronbc wrote:
Why don't you do both?

That is one possibility. I guess my dilemma is whether to buy the cheaper Battleship minis or splurge on some more expensive ones.

Quote:
I'm south bay myself so we could possibly meet for a game. You going to Pacificon?

I'm pretty busy until I graduate, and then I'm not sure where I'm moving to. Very likely not going to Pacificon.
 
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  • Posted Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:39 am
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James Fung
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comandantedavid wrote:
For me, the overriding concern is often: "Can I teach AND play this game in 2 hours?"

This is a good point. My response is that most of my game collection is tailored for non-gamers: Coloretto, Ticket to Ride, Dominion, Pandemic, Stone Age. When they get better, I can move them them up toward San Juan, Puerto Rico, Agricola, Through the Ages. The thing is, even though I bought a lot of less-weighty games because they're more non-gamer friendly, they're still games I really enjoy. Beyond the minis, I'm not sure if BG is that great.

Also, my roommate and I played about 20 games of Through the Ages this summer (online). I'm pretty sure he can handle a game of Full Thrust, (Actually, he can probably handle Attack Vector, but I have a sad feeling it would actually be quite dry.) and I know at least one other person who might be willing to give it a try just because of the minis.
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  • Posted Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:50 am
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Russell Campbell
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I highly recommend getting the fleet intro double pack. That's how I got started in FT and I couldn't believe how many ships I got for the money! Of course, I was comparing this to Battlefleet Gothic and Firestorm Armada, but still, it's a great deal.

Once you get into the game you can pretty much finish each fleet by buying a carrier group and a few larger vessels like a battleship and couple of escort cruisers.

Russ
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  • Posted Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:32 am
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John "Omega" Williams
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Star Frontiers: Knight Hawks is still hands down my favorite space battle game. Semi-Hard Science applied without bogging things down. And the rules are still free online thanks to TSR staff.

The biggest potential boon and drawback is that boxes of the miniatures can still be found very cheap. Problem is. Due to some weird factor in the packing, it is dissolving the miniatures sometimes. So never buy a pristine unopened box.

The original boxed set came with cardstock counters though and these are easy enough to recreate.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/10676/knight-hawks
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  • Posted Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:09 pm
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