The Hotness
Games|People|Company
Dominion: Dark Ages
Fantastiqa
Mage Knight: Board Game
Total War
Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)
Eclipse
Mice and Mystics
Dungeon Fighter
Collapsible D: The Final Minutes of the Titanic
Lords of Waterdeep
Agricola: All Creatures Big and Small
Libertalia
Android: Netrunner
Virgin Queen
The Lord of the Rings: Nazgul
A Game of Thrones: The Board Game (Second Edition)
Dominion
Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game
Infiltration
The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game
Among the Stars
Twilight Struggle
The Swarm
Agricola
1989: Dawn of Freedom
Goa
7 Wonders
Glory to Rome
Arkham Horror
Village
Ora et Labora
Battles of Westeros: House Baratheon Army Expansion
Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization
Thunder Road
Trajan
Zombicide
The Castles of Burgundy
7 Wonders: Cities
Ace of Spies
War of the Ring
Skyline
Space Alert
Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective
City of Horror
Race for the Galaxy
Dungeon Command: Sting of Lolth
Twilight Imperium (third edition)
Kingdom Builder
Le Havre
Battlestar Galactica

Board games that tell stories

This is BGG copy of my blog on Blogger, where I write about playing and designing games that are important for me.
Recommend
55 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up

Please, don't kill me!

Ignacy Trzewiczek
Poland
Gliwice
Slask
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
I take a token representing a Victory Point in 51st State. I also take a card which says: 'You gain a Victory Point.' I compare icons.
"Szpaku, can you tell me why the icon on this token is different from the icon on this card?"
"I have no idea. Michal designed it."
"Michal designed it, I accepted it, and the army of testers too. It's not about finding the guilty person."
"Well, so I do not know why they are different."
"I know it. They are different because we're morons."


***

You lose perspective when you sit very deep in any problem. You give whole heart to it and all your time and you stop seeing things. I needed a few months break from 51st State to catch a new perspective. I needed time to be able to see things that previously I had no chance to see.

One of them was this ridiculous idea with the iconography of the game. Let's face it - who designs two icons, one for card and the other for token and wants everyone to learn that these two icons mean the same thing? That would be me. The moron.

So when we finally caught appropriate perspective and when we regained a cool mind for this project, we noticed that several things in 51st State could be improved. That with a few minor changes the game will be much easier for players to learn.

'What do we do?' I asked. 'Should we change icons?'
'People will kill us. If expansion had different icons than base game, you will be crucified.'
"Thanks, mate.'
'No, no, I'm serious. You are dead. Announce on BGG that The New Era will have different icons. Just do it. I give you two hours before you unleash hell.'

***


I contact Peter from Rebel, my distributor. He is in good mood.
'What's up Trzewik? Come up with something new?'
'Yes.'
'Great. A hit?'
'Oh, yeah. This will be a loud thing. I came up with new icons for 51st State.'
'What?', I think that at this moment he just lost his good mood.
'Listen, I have an idea for new icons in the 51st State. We could use them in a New Era expansion.'
'You kiddin', right? Tell me it is a joke.'
'No, I am damn serious. I made a few minor changes and everything is now much clearer. The game is much simpler. People will have less problems with playing.'
'Trzewik, you can not change the icons in the game. The players would be furious.'
'You want me to print The New Era with bad icons even though I have on my desk new set of icons which is so much better?'
'I don't know Trzewik. But you can't change icons.'

***


Skype. I catch my friend from France, Yann.
'Hey. Can I ask you for an opinion?'
'Sure.'
'I fixed icons in the 51st State and I consider using them in The New Era. Can I show you?'
'Do you want to change icons? Expansion would have different icons than the basic game?'
'These are three small changes. Wanna look?'
'Show me'
I sent him some new cards with new icons.
'If rule is dedicated to token it is in a circle. If rule is dedicated to action I added yellow arrow to the icon. Token - circle, action - yellow arrow. '
'Yhm, I see. "
'Can we make a test? Tell me if you understand how these new cards work'
Yann says how he understand how they work. He is correct in 100%. Interpreted correctly all of the cards I sent to him.
'And what?' I ask.
'The new icons are much better. Not better, but much better.'
'And what do I do?', I ask.
'You know that the players will crucify you?'
'Yann, please...'

***


We've added a yellow arrow to indicate that a particular icon means the action. All the other icons we have put in a circle to indicate that it is a token. This is so small change and the game has gained a degree of clearity, that I would have never suspected. Suddenly everything became clear, testers suddenly stopped asking me dozens of questions, they simply started to play and enjoy the game. One small change...


***


I added this yellow arrow. Yes, I'm the guy who will publish expansion that has different icons than base game. Yes, I did it.

I could tell you, that every year, Apple releases new iPhone, because they came up with new ideas and improved the old one. I could tell you that every year there is a new FIFA for Playstation, there are new cars, new TV sets, I could tell you that everyone is trying to develop and produce year after year, something better.

I will not tell such piece of crap.

I did it, because the new icons are better. You will learn the game much more easily. You will have less problems while playing. You will have a great time with the game.

And that's all that matters for me.
Twitter Facebook
19 Comments
Subscribe sub options Wed Oct 5, 2011 1:45 pm
Post Comment
Darrell Hanning
United States
Jacksonville
Florida
Love women in action movies and shows. It all started with Diana Rigg, in the Avengers.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If your worst problem is the reaction to icon changes in the expansion to your game, then you are far better off, than the designer of the game for which nobody wants an expansion. This is the way I would look at it, if I were you.

*Corrected for grammer - bad, bad grammar.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Edited Wed Oct 5, 2011 3:08 pm
  • Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011 1:58 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Meow San

Chaos Realm of the Soul
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
nah i don't think anyone will crucify nor tear away yer skin alive... good changes usually are very welcomed.

but if they do, i called dips on all your collection of board games and toys. laughlaughlaugh
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011 2:02 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Ignacy Trzewiczek
Poland
Gliwice
Slask
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011 2:10 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Filipe Cunha
Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RJ
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The real question is...

When will 51st State will be re-released with the new icons?
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011 2:35 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote

Lacombe
Louisiana
msg tools
It was a dark and stormy night.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
endou_kenji wrote:
The real question is...

When will 51st State will be re-released with the new icons?


Definitely the question on my mind.

New Era may be easier / better to play on its own as a standalone, but with the inconsistencies in iconography the combined / expanded game will be nearly impossible to teach and confusing even for experienced players. If New Era is intended to be an expansion, the change, while good on its own merit, is contrary to the purpose of clarity, unfortunately.

There's surely a reason publishers don't change icons in expansions in general, and I doubt that reason is that they got it right the first time. You're not a moron for not getting the icons perfect; others have done the same.

But, hey, New Era will be a great standalone.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011 2:48 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Ignacy Trzewiczek
Poland
Gliwice
Slask
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
No reprint plans in 2011 and 2012. If reprint is planned I would not write about gamers that are gonna kill me.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011 3:06 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
tom moughan
United States
Rochester
New York
flag msg tools
ahh....I love the smell of a stack of sketchily placed animals in the morning!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
seems like now is the time to stop calling it an expansion. much better. much easier.

that said - looking forward to new era.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011 3:28 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
William McCarroll
United States
Draper
Utah
Check out my reviews at www.nerdbloggers.com
badge
Hi!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have to admit that I've never played 51st State (although it is on my play list), but how many cards in the original game have the afflicted icon? Would it be cost prohibitive to include replacement cards in the expansion that a player could swap into his base game?

That's assuming there are a reasonable number of cards with this new icon on them. If most of the cards have to be changed, though, it wouldn't be very prudent.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011 4:14 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote

Lacombe
Louisiana
msg tools
It was a dark and stormy night.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
hezkezl wrote:
I have to admit that I've never played 51st State (although it is on my play list), but how many cards in the original game have the afflicted icon? Would it be cost prohibitive to include replacement cards in the expansion that a player could swap into his base game?


Quite a few. There are actually two substantially changed icons [the plethora of arrows above in Ignacy's picture are the other], but the contact/distance resource change is a little less jarring than the VP token change.

If I had to guess... ~50% have either the VP token or the contact arrow icon.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011 4:18 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Ryan O'Connor
United States

California
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You think changing an icon is rough, try changing card stocks ;-)

I completely agree with killing something that is not working in favor of the long-term health of a product.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011 5:28 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Greg Moore
United States
Lees Summit
Missouri
flag msg tools
Less talking about games and more playing games.
badge
Print-n-Play Wargames and Miniatures Rules www.wargamedownloads.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I do not know how many cards have the old icons, but how about printing replacement cards with the new icons?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011 5:42 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Brett
United States
Clarkston
Michigan
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Way to keep a game fresh - I applaud you CLAPS
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011 11:20 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Karl
Austria
Salzburg
Salzburg
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Some upgrade pack to get your old cards up to the style of the new ones would sure be awesome. Have to agree - even if the new icons are much much better (tho I still haven't got what exactly differs) the mixture of old and new will now cause complete confusion. Seems like mixing just became utterly impossible. cry
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Thu Oct 6, 2011 7:55 am
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Łukasz Piechaczek
Poland

mbmbmb
I have played The New Era while it was still developed. When I saw the new icons I thought it was a nonsense to change the old ones. After few plays I got used to them. They are OK. When I now play 51st State I'm not confused. It's really easy to understand, remember and distinguish all iconography from 51st State and New Era. Although The New Era is an expansion to 51st State, I never played them mixed together. New Era is actually a standalone game and if you want to combine it with 51st, you won't take all the old cards because some of them are not compatible with new rules of conquests and deals. I guess there will be in the rulebook a list of cards that you can use. And the only tokens that will have different icons will be Victory Points and contacts, but the second one is just slightly changed, so I don't think I would need a reprint of 51st State for just 2 or 3 icons.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Thu Oct 6, 2011 10:53 am
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Dave Kudzma
United States
Gumboro
Delaware
Muffins.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I choose to adapt. I love the game that much.

Is there, at least, a player aid showing the equivalent symbols from the old to the new?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Thu Oct 6, 2011 2:40 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Ignacy Trzewiczek
Poland
Gliwice
Slask
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Thers is no such an aid as the change is extremely small. However, if there is need, we will create one!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Thu Oct 6, 2011 2:59 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Dave Kudzma
United States
Gumboro
Delaware
Muffins.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
trzewik wrote:
Thers is no such an aid as the change is extremely small. However, if there is need, we will create one!


Thanks Ignacy. You're one of the best!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Thu Oct 6, 2011 4:03 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Jack
United States
Cumberland
Rhode Island
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
trzewik wrote:
Thers is no such an aid as the change is extremely small. However, if there is need, we will create one!


How about creating a sheet with updated icons for the base set that we could print up onto sticker paper to do paste-ups ourselves. I think that would be fairly easy to do. In fact, I made my own for Roma because their iconography was totally unreadable. It was a mistake that they corrected in their sequel by going to straight text. What do you say, Ignacy?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Posted Thu Oct 6, 2011 11:42 pm
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote
Johan Haglert
Sweden
Örebro
flag msg tools
mbmb
Haven't read all yet but I hope you changed it seeing how new era works stand alone, you found an issue and many people seem to think new era is superior / works just fine alone to.

If you had made the icon match either of the original ones people shouldn't had complained so much =P

Edit: "I added this yellow arrow. Yes, I'm the guy who will publish expansion that has different icons than base game. Yes, I did it." - good
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Thumb up
  • Edited Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:08 am
  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:05 am
    • Choose your Dice
      • Roll
      • Comment (Optional)
    • Reply
    •  
    • Quote

Subscribe

Categories

Contributors

Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.