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Summoner Wars And My History With Tactical Miniature Games

Jesse Dean
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Personal Background
Back in my pre-BGG days, when the only board game I played regularly was Settlers of Catan, I had another primary hobby: Collectible Miniatures Games. The first one I got into, back in 2003, was Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures, through role-playing games, and after a few years I also started playing Dreamblade. I was fairly successful in both, doing well enough at regional tournaments to attend the championship every year, and doing well at the bigger tournaments around the championship, but I never did particularly great at the championships, with a single Top 8 being my only real note of success. In late 2007 I decided that I wanted to get more into board games, bought a bunch of bad ones at Gen Con. By early 2008 I was more firmly enmeshed into the board gaming hobby, and the my tastes (and collection) rapidly developed after that.

At first I was suffering from a bit of fatigue from the whole concept of tactical battle games and largely ignored that particular segment of the hobby, but eventually, for reasons I do not remember, I started checking out the Command & Colors series. I did a bit of research on each game in the series, and even here my preferences for deeper games started to show through, because I ultimately settled on Command & Colors: Ancients, as it was generally agreed to be the one with the most depth (and complexity). The rules for the game looked promising and I ended up ordering both the game and the first expansion at the same time to make sure I had a mounted board, so that it would get the best possible first impression from my girlfriend, Minerva.

It went over well and ended up being a favorite of both my Minerva and I. I appreciated the depth of decision making involved in the game, and how effectively dramatic and interesting situations arose during the course of play. I also noted some pretty strong parallels with the CMGs I played, which is something I both appreciated and found fascinating on an intellectual level. We ended up playing through whole campaigns on opposite sides of the war, and kept track of the total number of flags gained to determine the overall winner. She ended up doing very well, and the fact that she was able to effectively compete with me added to her enjoyment of the game. It ended up being one of the most played games for my girlfriend and I, right behind Race For the Galaxy, up until she decided she was spending too much time playing board games and wanted to spend her time on other interests. I know, I know it seems kind of crazy to think you are spending too much time playing board games, but I guess she hit a period of burn-out and wanted to take a break. Apparently the number of times that I introduced a game, she learned the rules, and I decided it was not good or not interesting enough and then sold it also scarred her a bit. Her break from gaming caused a big decline in the overall amount of 2-player gaming I participated in, as most of my other gaming partners were more interested in multi-player gaming. Unfortunately this effected Command & Colors: Ancients too and my number of plays of it (and plays in general) declined over the last year and a half.

Recently this shifted a bit. While Minerva is still not interested in longer games, as she does still does not want to spend that much times on board games, and is not that interested in learning new games. We’ve actually discussed playing some Command & Colors: Ancients or Race For the Galaxy a few times over the last few weeks, but the annoyance of set-up is always an issue. While I would most likely perform said set-up, she dislikes it on a philosophical level. She similarly isn’t interested in the new Race For the Galaxy expansion, considering it “too much,” and I am generally not interested in removing all of the Brink of War cards from the deck when I play with her. So this has resulted in very little gaming with her. So earlier this week the fact that Summoner Wars, with its short set-up time and tactical miniature game-style play, might be an option bubbled into my consciousness. I performed a bit of research and identified that the Master Set was being released on Wednesday (board game night at Coolstuff Games!) I ran the idea by Minerva and she instructed me to play it a bit first before introducing it to her as she did not want to learn another set of rules for a game I would get rid of.

Summoner Wars
I ended up playing a total of five games of Summoner Wars last night, with each of the factions available in the Master Set being in play at least once. I liked what I saw. For those who are unfamiliar, the game is centered around factions each of which comes with its own pre-built deck filled with commons (the bulk of the faction’s units), champions (three per deck, with better stats and abilities), events (temporary bonuses), and the summoner (a powerful unit in its own right, whose destruction is the game’s only victory condition). A player draws to five cards every turn, and can use those cards in two ways. The first is to play them, in order to implement the event effects or to get another unit on the board. The second option is to “build magic” with them, building up the pool of resources that is used to actually pay for new units. The individual units are pretty straightforward, with the cards providing pretty much everything you need to know about a unit with minimal iconography. Abilities are generally easy to understand and the there were few instances were rulebook consultation was required.

The decks themselves had very different play styles even with non-expert players, and while the decision space is similar to that you would find in most other tactical battle games, the fact that you are managing not only the units you have on the table but also have to make tough decisions about what you will use your cards for only adds to the depth of the game. The variable order of the units coming out also allows for a bit of interplay variety, adding entirely new tactical challenges for players to deal with. I also liked the fact that you hit on a 3-6, rather than a 5-6 as is typical of games of this type, as it adds a delightful bloodiness to the game and opens the game up for some interesting special abilities.

In case you haven’t been able to tell by my praise, I came away impressed with Summoner War’s game play. Even with the simple rule set, it looks like there is a lot of game here, and I am looking forward to introducing it to Minerva sometime over the next few days. Hopefully she likes it enough that I will be able to get as many (or more!) plays out of it then I got out of C&C: Ancients. If not, it should be a fun two-player game for those moments that periodically emerge in gaming sessions were a short game is useful and we don’t want to spend time setting up C&C: Ancients. Either way at $32 it was a good buy, and I expect I will get quite a bit of plays out of it in the near future. I might also have to recommend it to my old CMG buddies.
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Subscribe sub options Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:24 pm
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James 3
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i relate to this post, bigtime. I'm the gamer, but my girl will humor me and enjoys playing a few games with me. We LOVE Race for the Galaxy and have played it dozens and dozens of times together. She also likes Ascension (check it out for play with Minerva if you havent yet), and we sometimes play Carcassonne: H&G or Stone Age or Alien Frontiers. We both tend to favor the card games though.

As a former competitive Magic Player, Summoner wars was very interesting to me, with its many factions, limited customization, cardgame hand management angle, yet no collectible aspect. AWESOME! and i really enjoyed the game play when I sampled it, and so got some factions and was really hoping my girlfriend would take to it, as my regular game night group is usually about 3-5 player games, she is my main 2 player opponent. sound familiar?

well...sadly, She has officially deemed Summoner Wars a "boy game" and it TOTALLY turned her off. She obliged me and played it a few times as she knew I really wanted her to like it, but it backfired on me. Since playing SW, she stopped being as interested in playing RftG and other games with me, and we still don't play nearly as many games as we used to. While she isn't turned off by the indirect competitiveness in the other games, the overt killing of stuff was entirely non-interesting to her, and really irritated her. Ugh. I really like this game and have been trying to cultivate other opportunities to play it with others. I hear many girls like it, but wow, mine HATED it. If Minerva was down with Commands and Colors, maybe she will be more into the tactical direct warfare aspect of SW. It was a HUGE miss for me sadly.

I definitely wish you luck! gaming with your partner is fantastic!

ps: the Master Set is on its way to me from CoolStuff as we speak. now to find an opponent...
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  • Edited Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:00 pm
  • Posted Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:58 pm
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Jesse Dean
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Yeah, I doubt she will dismiss Summoner Wars like your girl dismissed it. She has made some pretty great moves against me in C&C: Ancients before and has a bit of a killer instinct for these things. She has also played Twilight Struggle and the like and does not have a problem with direct conflict based games at all.

Ascension is one of those games I bought, taught her, and then discarded (after about 20 plays) once I decided it wasn't quite as interesting for me. I think I just (mostly) don't like dominion-style deck-building games.

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  • Posted Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:03 pm
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James 3
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I've had a few plays with the Master Set, and really like how different they are than the other factions. Can't wait to get more games in. The Deep Dwarves fascinate me with their crazy use of magic. I also recently got the reinforcement pack for the Fallen Kingdom, and really enjoy the large collection of commons that RetTallus can raise dead now. Its almost always really close when i play too. really cool game, and im usually turned off by game's this heavy with dice luck.

I find Dominions set up fiddly and all the real decisions made before the game even starts, and find Ascension the opposite, being easy to set up and decisions to make throughout the game. They are pretty different to me, and Ascension FEELS like playing a Magic draft, which was something I REALLY enjoyed, so I guess thats why I like it. Adding promos and the expansion helped keep it fresh for me. Most other deckbuilders dont quite do it for me (i HATE nightfall gulp ), so I understand what you mean. Im happy my girl likes Ascension, but she doesnt like that I play it on my iOS now and have gotten so many more games in than her as a result...

hmm, how to get her truly interested in playing games with me again...She actually REQUESTED race after a night out a few months ago and I thought she was hooked...
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  • Posted Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:11 pm
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Frank Conradie
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Great choice Jesse! I have taught Summoner Wars to quite a few people, and have found two player aids to be invaluable in this regard:

1. I created a short faction description player aid to help new players quickly get a feel for each faction's play style - see Short Descriptions of all 14 Factions

2.
Christophe Mallard
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have created fabulous single page aids for each faction with all units/abilities and events listed - see summoner wars master set player aid

With these aids a new player can very quickly choose a faction based on preferred play style, and then just as quickly understand their chosen faction's units and abilities.
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  • Posted Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:55 pm
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Jesse Dean
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Yes, those are both great tools. I've been making my way through Christophe's aids in order to determine which faction to get next. I am torn, as a few of them look pretty neat.

Your aid will also be excellent as a teaching aid as well. Thanks!
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  • Posted Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:00 pm
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Rex Gator
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You looked to be pretty deep in thought when I saw you playing last night. That usually bodes well for a game I have been watching Summoner Wars for a year now and have almost pulled the trigger several times. Just was not sure who in my extended but fragmented group of gamer friends would be interested. Now I know! I will definitley be up for a play or two the next time I am at Cool Stuff!
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  • Posted Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:14 pm
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Jesse Dean
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She liked it for the most part, but she could not get over the fact that the game had no battle back despite the fact that I explained to her that C&C: Ancients is pretty much alone in the presence of battle back. This made her sad and regret that C&C: Ancients took so long to set-up. She is willing to play it more though.
 
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  • Posted Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:31 am
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James 3
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Battle back?

Glad it went over well.
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  • Posted Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:41 am
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Jesse Dean
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If you attack a unit in melee and fail to kill it then it gets an immediate melee attack back at you. It works in C&C: Ancients, but would not work in Summoner Wars for obvious reasons.
 
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  • Posted Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:22 am
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James Sitz
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doubtofbuddha wrote:
She liked it for the most part, but she could not get over the fact that the game had no battle back despite the fact that I explained to her that C&C: Ancients is pretty much alone in the presence of battle back. This made her sad and regret that C&C: Ancients took so long to set-up. She is willing to play it more though.


Show her the Fencer.

http://boardgamegeek.com/image/765570/summoner-wars

Often, if there's a mechanic that feels like it's missing, there's probably a Unit out there that makes it their shtick. Guild Dwarf Defenders and Vanguard Guardian Knights have Zone-of-control variations in their powers, PE archers have long range, Jungle Elf archers can fire over friendlies, etc.

I'm glad you're enjoying the Master Set. I look forward to seeing more responses like this in the coming weeks.
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  • Edited Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:17 pm
  • Posted Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:16 pm
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Jesse Dean
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Yes, but she thinks every unit should be able to do it, because it "makes sense." The fact that her only other tactical miniature game up to this point was C&C: Ancients did not help matters, either. We did not discuss it much last night, because it was late, but I will explain why its important not to have it on every unit from a design perspective as we drive home tonight.
 
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  • Edited Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:25 pm
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James Sitz
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It might not just be the lack of battle back, it could be the larger problem of feeling somewhat helpless during your opponent's turns. It's kind of like what Chess would be like with some hidden info and taking more actions in a turn. Some of my friends with CCG (read: M:tG) backgrounds dislike the lack of effects that occur during your opponent's turns. You might direct her to the Shadow Elves. The event Shadows is the closest thing to a counterspell, although the effect is pretty minor. Malidala, one of the SE champions, also gives you a small (although usually obvious) decision to make during your opponent's turn.

People who are expecting more of a tactical game than a CCG are usually less bothered by this, but it's a valid concern.
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  • Edited Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:41 pm
  • Posted Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:38 pm
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Jesse Dean
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I actually gave her the Shadow Elves for the first game. (I played Sand Goblins). It was entertaining watching her come to grips with how to effectively use the events and creatures, particularly with her joy in killing my buffed scavengers with an event. Her surprise when she saw the Hydrake for the first time was particularly delightful.
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  • Posted Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:46 pm
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Andy Andersen
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I showed my wife Summoner Wars: Phoenix Elves vs Tundra Orcs , told her about Summoner Wars: Master Set and she said "order it." What a great wife.cool
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  • Posted Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:36 pm
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