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A Gnome's Ponderings

I'm a gamer. I love me some games and I like to ramble about games and gaming. So, more than anything else, this blog is a place for me to keep track of my ramblings. If anyone finds this helpful or even (good heavens) insightful, so much the better.
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The Unpleasant Reality of Gamesmanship

Lowell Kempf
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I keep on learning new terms this week. In a blog about metagaming, someone showed me the term Gamesmanship.

Like emergent gameplay or emergent narrative, it’s an idea that I already was familiar with. I just didn’t know what it was called.

Gamesmanship is the art of messing with another player’s head in order to win but not going so far as to actually, out-and-out cheat. For instance, intentionally walking into a snooker player’s line of sight as they’re making a shot it is gamesmanship. Bumping their elbow is cheating.

To be honest, I think there is a very fine line between gamesmanship and blatantly cheating. There are definitely times when I think it honestly crosses the line. I also think there is a very definite line between clever gameplay and gamesmanship.

For instance, I think that running up the price of an item in an auction game is not gamesmanship. I have played many games of Power Grid where people intentionally forced other players into the choice of either getting the power plant they wanted or being able to buy the resources to fuel it.

A more pure example is how this is the basic gameplay of High Society. Not only does running up the price of a card mean that you are leaving your opponent with less money. You are also increasing the chances of them getting eliminated in the end game.

In the same way, pushing the bid in a poker game, even when you might not have the cards to back it up, in the hopes of bluffing your opponents into folding could be viewed as gamesmanship. However, that’s how you play the game. Bluffing is an intrinsic part of poker. Some people will argue that it is the basis of poker and the cards just provide the excuse.

Are you messing with people’s heads when you do things like that? Well, yeah. However, it’s all still within the basic framework of how the game works. These are the kind of things that aren’t just acceptable, they’re even expected.

On the other hand, taking an interminably long time to play on your turn in order to aggravate other players, arguing rules when you are clearly wrong, singing off-tune drinking songs, intentionally misdealing cards in order to force a reshuffle, faking a heart attack, that’s when you cross the line out of cunning play and into gamesmanship for me.

That kind of behavior can sometimes be amusing but it can quickly become offensive and aggravating. I don’t play for money. I play games for fun and relaxation. If someone is intentionally playing in a way that is designed to make me not have fun, then they are wasting my time and upsetting me for no other reason than their own satisfaction. I don’t want to play games with people like that. I don’t even want to be in the same room as them.

In an earlier post, Patrick Carroll wrote about how a player in a play-by-mail game faked a terminal illness in order to have the other players basically let the guy win. That kind of behavior is so offensive that it blows my mind. It honestly makes me ask “What is so wrong with someone that they could consider this acceptable behavior?”

Yes, there is a matter of degree involved. I wouldn’t put trash talk, for instance, in the realm of gamesmanship. For one thing, it often has a certain degree of heavy-handed, friendly kidding involved. For another thing, everyone knows what you’re doing when you trash talk.

It's also important to realize when someone isn't practicing gamesmanship. Taking forever to take a turn can be a form of psychological warfare. It can also mean someone has analysis paralysis.

In the end, I try to avoid people who practice gamesmanship. That kind of play is contrary to every reason that I play board games. However, I can still run into it at conventions and meet-up groups. Sometimes, all you can do is be aware that it’s out there and do your best to ride out the bad experience.
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Subscribe sub options Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:43 pm
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Sometimes, all you can do is be aware that it’s out there and do your best to ride out the bad experience.



Unless you have a concealed carry permit devil
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  • Posted Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:52 pm
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Tory Niemann
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Quote:
I don’t play for money. I play games for fun and relaxation. If someone is intentionally playing in a way that is designed to make me not have fun, then they are wasting my time and upsetting me for no other reason than their own satisfaction. I don’t want to play games with people like that. I don’t even want to be in the same room as them.


QFT!
 
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  • Posted Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:58 pm
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Patrick Carroll
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Then there are games that seem (especially in certain groups) to be all about gamesmanship. Take Diplomacy, for example.

Some say deception is the ruling principle of Diplomacy. Apparently this was even more pronounced in the early years of the game, if its designer is to be believed. Here's a snippet from an old article of his, "A Dozen Years of Diplomacy":

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A variety of rough-and-ready tactics were developed at this time. One was the "Flying Dutchman", which consisted in playing with a piece to which you were not entitled. It was ruled that this practice was legal so long as it was a deception; i.e., any player had a right to demand restoration of the true position, but if moves had intervened, they could not be taken back. It was never clear what the rights were if the deception was discovered during a move. Players quickly learned not to challenge a Flying Dutchman unless its removal was in their interest; sometimes a player might let one survive for several moves, then challenge it when alliances began to shift. The easiest way to put on a Flying Dutchman is to raise one when other players are raising, or to "forget" to drop one; but they are sometimes just placed on the board when only yourself or allies are present. Also pieces have been advanced or pushed back, armies have been turned into fleets, and so on.

The ploy which came closet to provoking mayhem was move-stealing. After a player had tucked his orders under the board, they were quietly lifted and some other paper put in their place. If other moves had been read before the deception was discovered, it was ruled that the victim could not make out a new set, because he had already heard other player’s moves. Consequently his pieces stood in place. If the theft was coupled with an all-out attack it was very effective, and it had its analog in sabotage of communication lines in advance of attack.

These tactics seemed to have died out with the passage of time, except for an occasional Flying Dutchman, peeking while others write orders and so on.


I myself fell prey to a sucker's gambit in my first game of Diplomacy, back in 1973 or so. I was playing Austria-Hungary, and a smooth-talking Germany showed me the orders he had written, to prove he was being sincere in his offer to support my moves that turn. Then he crumpled up that piece of paper, put it in his pocket, and submitted his real orders.

I played only one other game of Diplomacy after that, several years later. It was a postal game, but Italy got my phone number and called me several times, interrupting my dinner to talk about the game. He went on to win, and I got permanently soured on Diplomacy. Today it's my least favorite game.
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  • Posted Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:33 pm
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Kevin B. Smith
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Quote:
I also think there is a very definite line between clever gameplay and gamesmanship.

I think there is a *fine* line, not a *definite* one.

Maybe someone is taking a bit long on their turn for legitimate reasons, but then when they notice it's bugging someone they take just a wee bit longer than they would have, just to re-consider their move one last time. Or maybe they pull a move that would be perfectly acceptable in one game (or in one gaming group), but which is "just not done" in this game (or group).

I'm sure there are other examples of borderline behavior.
 
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  • Posted Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:55 pm
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Ludere Cum Dignitate
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It sounds like it could be defined as unconventional/unacceptable use of deception or distraction.
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  • Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:46 am
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Luke Morris
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I like to fake concentration on parts of the board I don't really care about and look concerned when an opponent plays there. Shame on me.
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  • Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:12 am
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Ludere Cum Dignitate
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I don't think there is anything wrong with that...
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  • Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:25 am
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Shawn Larson
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I remember a perfect example of gamesmanship that occurred during a game of chess. I had an opportunity for a checkmate, but the opponent's bishop was blocking my queen's advance. The exchange can be summarized in three lines:

"Here, take my rook. I won't be needing it anyway."
"Uh..., thanks."
"Checkmate!"
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  • Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:15 am
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spitefuldice wrote:
I remember a perfect example of gamesmanship that occurred during a game of chess. I had an opportunity for a checkmate, but the opponent's bishop was blocking my queen's advance. The exchange can be summarized in three lines:

"Here, take my rook. I won't be needing it anyway."
"Uh..., thanks."
"Checkmate!"


I think there's an appropriate gaming proverb for this:
If your competent opponent makes a blatantly stupid move, you should pause to analyze whether it was really a stupid move.
 
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  • Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:10 pm
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peakhope wrote:
Quote:
I also think there is a very definite line between clever gameplay and gamesmanship.

I think there is a *fine* line, not a *definite* one.

Maybe someone is taking a bit long on their turn for legitimate reasons, but then when they notice it's bugging someone they take just a wee bit longer than they would have, just to re-consider their move one last time. Or maybe they pull a move that would be perfectly acceptable in one game (or in one gaming group), but which is "just not done" in this game (or group).

I'm sure there are other examples of borderline behavior.


I think that gamesmanship is frequently a form of clever gameplay, albeit one that some people don't like. Obviously some uses of it are in worse taste than others...
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  • Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:26 pm
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Patrick Carroll
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Redward wrote:
I think that gamesmanship is frequently a form of clever gameplay, albeit one that some people don't like. Obviously some uses of it are in worse taste than others...

Consider that there's no gamesmanship in solitaire (except insofar as one can fool himself). IMO that's one big reason why many people hate solitaire. But it's also a reason some of us gravitate toward it.

Same with cooperative games.
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  • Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:19 pm
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For me there's a significant (and usually pretty clear, I think) distinction between a trick/swindle within the game (e.g. the chess "oops, you can capture my rook!" example a couple comments ago) and a trick/swindle outside the game (e.g. the Diplomacy "I have a terminal illness, please let me win" example a few comments ago). The former seems fine to me; the latter seems quite inappropriate to me.
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  • Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:04 pm
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Patrick Carroll
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russ wrote:
For me there's a significant (and usually pretty clear, I think) distinction between a trick/swindle within the game (e.g. the chess "oops, you can capture my rook!" example a couple comments ago) and a trick/swindle outside the game (e.g. the Diplomacy "I have a terminal illness, please let me win" example a few comments ago). The former seems fine to me; the latter seems quite inappropriate to me.

While I agree, I find that both kinds affect me personally when I'm in the game. That is, I can't help but take it personally even when I remember that it's just a game. Fooling somebody, or being fooled, feels bad to me no matter what. I can't think of a single time ever when I pulled off a deception and felt good about it. I can hardly even imagine feeling good about such a thing.

So, in my case it's irrelevant whether the gamesmanship is of the socially approved kind or not.
 
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  • Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:14 pm
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Ludere Cum Dignitate
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Patrick Carroll wrote:
russ wrote:
For me there's a significant (and usually pretty clear, I think) distinction between a trick/swindle within the game (e.g. the chess "oops, you can capture my rook!" example a couple comments ago) and a trick/swindle outside the game (e.g. the Diplomacy "I have a terminal illness, please let me win" example a few comments ago). The former seems fine to me; the latter seems quite inappropriate to me.

While I agree, I find that both kinds affect me personally when I'm in the game. That is, I can't help but take it personally even when I remember that it's just a game. Fooling somebody, or being fooled, feels bad to me no matter what. I can't think of a single time ever when I pulled off a deception and felt good about it. I can hardly even imagine feeling good about such a thing.

So, in my case it's irrelevant whether the gamesmanship is of the socially approved kind or not.


This sounds similar to the arguments I hear against teasing. In some families/groups of friends it is a favorite past time but to others it is an anathema.

I have to lean on what I said before:
Redward wrote:
It sounds like it could be defined as unconventional/unacceptable use of deception or distraction.


If it is a accepted convention due to the group/game than it's groovy. If it is generally considered unacceptable in a certain game/group than tread lightly and/or don't get caught. devil
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  • Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:40 pm
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"L'état, c'est moi."
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Patrick Carroll wrote:
While I agree, I find that both kinds affect me personally when I'm in the game. That is, I can't help but take it personally even when I remember that it's just a game. Fooling somebody, or being fooled, feels bad to me no matter what. I can't think of a single time ever when I pulled off a deception and felt good about it. I can hardly even imagine feeling good about such a thing.

So, in my case it's irrelevant whether the gamesmanship is of the socially approved kind or not.




I can't help but think about this scene when I hear about gamesmanship.
 
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  • Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:43 pm
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Patrick Carroll
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Redward wrote:
This sounds similar to the arguments I hear against teasing. In some families/groups of friends it is a favorite past time but to others it is an anathema.

Teasing, to me, is not really a form of deception. But it depends on how it's handled, I suppose. I can usually take teasing--and dish it out too. At times, when someone doesn't know I'm teasing, s/he feels hurt or insulted--and then I have to explain and take it back and smooth it over with heartfelt compliments. Other times, I've been teased and taken it personally, so I know how that feels too.

But teasing is basically just a way of saying, "I've noticed something unique about you, and if one were to look at it from this extreme angle (which I don't, of course), it'd look pretty bad."

Sometimes teasing can be a positive thing, because it alerts the "victim" to some possible self-deception. It points out a blind spot, which can be helpful if taken in good spirits.

For example, last weekend I was working with security at a convention. The weather was unusually nice all weekend, and a guy I know caught up with me as I was walking outside and said, "I've got to rib you just a little. I notice that you guys are out here walking a lot this weekend. But last year and the year before, when we had all that sleet and snow, you were nowhere to be seen."

We shared a laugh. But I also took it to heart. Might we have unconsciously avoided patrolling outdoors just because of the weather? It's something worth thinking about, at least a little.

Such teasing makes me feel possibly remiss or guilty or self-conscious. That's not nearly as bad as "gamesmanship," which makes me slap my head and say, "D'oh! How could I have been so damned stupid?" Then, a moment later, I realize my opponent knew I might be that stupid and was even counting on it. Now I not only feel stupid but also hurt; he did it to me on purpose. He played me.

Even worse is when I make someone else feel that way in the course of playing a game. Anytime I see an opponent about to fall into a trap I've set, I want to warn him--and often I do. In fact, I don't consciously set traps; I just make the best moves I can and sometimes belatedly notice that my moves constituted a trap.

I really dislike deception--in games or in life.
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  • Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:07 pm
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Ludere Cum Dignitate
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With the teasing reference I simply meant that it was a matter of taste. But with teasing and with gamesmanship I have to say I kind of like them both within reason. For example if the gamesmanship is minimal or funny than it is alright but if it is mean spirited or used the wrong way then it becomes bad.

It is a fine line with both, I guess.

p55carroll, It sounds like you dislike it much more than myself and use it even less than I do. I promise that if due to some twist of fate we play a game together I will not use the death of my mima/nana against you. Only Wil Wheaton can get away with that... devil
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  • Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:30 pm
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Patrick Carroll
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Redward wrote:
It sounds like you dislike it much more than myself and use it even less than I do.

Yeah. But I dislike deception so much that it even bothers me when someone at the game table restrains himself and walks on eggshells just to avoid offending me or someone else. That's deception too. I want everybody to feel free to be himself--even the sneaky bastard who's intent on tricking me into making a foolish move. I'd rather that he just be himself and play his own way than try to fool me into believing he's a naturally kind, polite, forthright kind of guy.
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  • Posted Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:18 pm
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Lowell Kempf
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Clearly, the definition of Gamesmanship, just like meta gaming and emergent gaming, is open to a wide range of interpretation. Different people have had different experiences and different tables have different atmospheres.

One way or the other, this is a concept that strongly affects people.
 
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  • Posted Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:32 am
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