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Scott's Corner

A blog focusing on boardgame graphic designs.
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Sometimes things just don't work out...

Scott Everts
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I was going to be more active on my blog but it really amazes me how long it takes to make these. My Dune and Chitin: I blogs took hours & hours to put together. I was thinking maybe it's a better idea to make smaller, more frequent blogs instead of doing mega-size blogs with long dry spells.

This one will be a short one but hopefully still interesting!

So far I've not had the opportunity to work on a big boardgame title. I've done lots of small stuff and free stuff. I suppose I could be more proactive contacting companies and "shaking the bushes" so to speak. But having a full time job, I worry about making a commitment on a big title that will be hard to keep on schedule. My day job can be slow and it can be super busy. When I was working on the Dune project I was really busy but didn't have to worry about any deadlines for that!

Several years ago Chris Taylor, Tom Decker, and I decided to try getting a game published. We had about a dozen ideas and started playtest on the most promising ones. At the time I wasn't working so had lots of free time. So while one of the promising ideas was being worked on, I started graphic design. Now, this is not a good idea. You should have a very solid game before you go nuts on the art. The reason is the game will change and change drastically. As we playtested the design we kept making huge revisions that affected the card layout. I'd work on the layout, then stats would come and go which screwed up all the careful spacing. While we fine tuned the game I'd have to rework big sections. As you can imagine, this got frustrating. Though having so much free time meant I could keep working on it over and over. By the end I had made more than 50 versions of the card layout!

But eventually we decided to shelve the project. There were many reasons. The first one was the most obvious, we all were concerned about investing thousands printing a game. We've all heard horror stories of designers self funding a game and having a storage unit filled with unsold copies. The other problem was finding illustrators to do the card art. The game had a minimum of 40 illustrations necessary to make the game. That was the least we wanted to do, and would of preferred even more. During early design we had a friend do two sample illustrations for free which helped give us a visual style. But finishing the rest at the quality level he set would of cost us tens of thousands of dollars!

Even more of a problem was playtesting wasn't going well. None of us had done this before and we found the game overly complex and slow to play. We wanted a fantasy combat game using cards and dice but it needed to be fast in keeping with the theme of a dice based combat game of team gladiatorial combat.

Eventually we decided to shelve the project and hoped to revisit it in the future with fresh eyes. So far it remains in the drawer and maybe it will come out again in a revised format. Since then my two designer friends have published multiple titles with Victory Point Games and Tom has a game (Circus Train) on the P500 at GMT Games. We have learned a lot since that original project. Future titles I've learned to wait until playtest before putting too much work into art. I will come up with a style and then start making final designs once the game is near final. I think at the beginning it can be very exciting but once you revise that over months and months it can sap all your enthusiasm. I also find that you start to make bad choices and not want to make large changes even though you probably should. It's easy to get used to a design you've been hammering on for awhile and not "bit the bullet" and make that big change necessary to make it all work.



This was the final version of the card art before we shelved the project. I think it would of been beautiful if we could keep the illustration quality at this level. But the cost involved in doing that much art would of required a large number of sales to justify the cost. I do hope someday to use this design for a future game. I think it turned out pretty well and still holds up after all this time.
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Subscribe sub options Tue Dec 6, 2011 7:20 am
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Steve Carey
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That's one mighty purdy card, Scott - hope you guys get the game published one day!
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  • Posted Tue Dec 6, 2011 8:13 am
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Blake Phillips
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I am currently making the mistake that you have written about - but honestly I more interested in the project from a graphic design standpoint then game design. I don't expect it to go anywhere. But I knew right away I was in trouble and I just cant help doing it anyway... it is 'looking' very good I must say.

That card and the design is fantastic by the way.
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  • Posted Tue Dec 6, 2011 3:10 pm
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Scott Everts
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Thanks!

Blake, I certainly understand. That's one reason I like enhancing (pimping) games that I own. It's just fun from a graphic design standpoint to see what you can do to enhance the regular game. Go crazy and put stuff in it that they would never have been able to afford.

It's also easier to work with a finished product and see where you can add to it. I can write a huge blog on all the work I've done on various play aids. That will probably be my next one though I'll break it up into parts. And some of these games I've gone crazy on! But I've also had some wonderful experiences with players telling me how much it helped and the designers sending me personal emails thanking me. And sometimes I even get free stuff!

Back on the graphic design discussion. I don't think its a bad thing to work on a general look early. Just be careful not to do really finished stuff. As an example, there's a project I'm working on right now that the card size might change. I've already done a pretty final layout but all the elements are layered in Photoshop so I can move stuff around and resize. One thing I learned over the years is make all your design elements with easy to manipulate layers. I tend to use a lot of the built in Photoshop filters so I can change sizes without having to do a bunch of reworking. Also my fill textures are ususally tiled so its easier to change sizes. You do have to be careful with using all the built in blending modes as you can overdo it. Readability should be your number one goal. If the background gets too busy that can compete with the text.

Heck I could go on and seems I have another blog idea just from discussing this!
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  • Posted Tue Dec 6, 2011 6:58 pm
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Erik Racer
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That is a sharp looking card. If you ever get back to it make sure you include a solo option ... that will ensure it will be very difficult for me to resist.
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  • Posted Wed Dec 7, 2011 2:48 am
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Val Cassotta


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To echo what has already been said - beautiful work (do you recall the fonts you used - they are quite clear at that size), and thank you for sharing your tale with us.

I've fallen into that same trap as well, and what I learned was that the art/layout can then shackle you to an idea/mechanic, and narrowing your vision.

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  • Posted Wed Dec 7, 2011 5:28 am
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Scott Everts
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Thanks Erik & Val!

JustinKase wrote:
To echo what has already been said - beautiful work (do you recall the fonts you used - they are quite clear at that size), and thank you for sharing your tale with us.

I've fallen into that same trap as well, and what I learned was that the art/layout can then shackle you to an idea/mechanic, and narrowing your vision.

The fonts I used are-

Name and class- Sherwood
Numbers- GE Greenway Caps
Body Text- Book Antiqua

I agree that you can easily get shackled into a layout. It becomes especially a problem if you hire art too early and don't have time or access to your artist during the final design to revise it. And its easy to fall in love with something and then try to force the game into that because you don't want to change it.

As an artist, sometimes you'll get feedback that you really hate. I find it best to let it sit for a day and mull it over. At first you can get really angry and just dismiss it out of hand. But over time I find I start thinking of alternatives that might work as a compromise. It's hard sometimes. And also not all suggestions are right. Art is not a science and one person might hate something that really isn't an issue. But you have to find a diplomatic solution when working with a team.
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  • Posted Wed Dec 7, 2011 6:29 am
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Erik Racer
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ScottE wrote:
As an artist, sometimes you'll get feedback that you really hate. I find it best to let it sit for a day and mull it over. At first you can get really angry and just dismiss it out of hand. But over time I find I start thinking of alternatives that might work as a compromise. It's hard sometimes. And also not all suggestions are right. Art is not a science and one person might hate something that really isn't an issue. But you have to find a diplomatic solution when working with a team.


Ha. My primary job is application development and I used to have this same reaction to user "suggestions" all the time. Now its just occasionally. laugh
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  • Posted Thu Dec 8, 2011 1:43 am
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Steffen Beck
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I think it turned out pretty well


quite the understatement...friggin' AWESOME is more like it! Muchos kudos!
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  • Posted Thu Dec 8, 2011 4:12 pm
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David Moffatt
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Really nice looking card. Its great to see you Fallout guys, are still working together after all these years.

Something I really miss about the old days of computer games, is they went all out with quality hard boxes, maps and manuals. For me, it was a necessary part of the experience. The only people left who are doing it they way they used to, are board game makers.

"The first one was the most obvious, we all were concerned about investing thousands printing a game. We've all heard horror stories of designers self funding a game and having a storage unit filled with unsold copies."

Perhaps you could use one of those ransoming websites, to generate funds to pay for print runs, before they are made. Then they could print the games and send them on to the customers.

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  • Posted Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:42 pm
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Scott Everts
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Thanks David!

Kickstarter is an option though it's getting a bit flooded with boardgames and I expect it's going to be harder and harder to get funding with so many choices. We'd also need to setup an LLC. We don't have a business person to help us out. I think for the short term we'll just keep working with established publishers and maybe down the road we'll look into using Kickstarter or similar.
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  • Posted Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:52 pm
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