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Rick's Adventures in Board Gaming

Making note of my life in the hobby. Occasional attempts at humor included.
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The Incredible Rotating Thumb II - Flashing Drizzt with my Ankh-Morpork

Rick Baptist
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First off, favorite title ever. Hands off my Morpork!

Time once more for the rotating thumb to cover some of my recent plays. November was an odd month full of good and bad games, and hardly anything in between. The great news is that I might have found a game that hit my Top 10 all-time, so let's get to that.


Flash Point: Fire Rescue

So, wow! I certainly do like co-ops, as evidenced by so many in my Top 25, but knowing all that I still wasn't quite prepared for Flash Point to hit the table. And this game was HYPED to heck and back, even. The Kickstarter campaign was a success, and once I got my copy I was very pleased with the components and quality of the presentation. Being a game that plays well solo has its advantages, as the first thing I did when I received it was to open it up and dig in. Ever had one of those first plays that stick with you? Especially in a co-op type, save-the-world kind of game? Yeah, my first time playing I barely got the dog out of the house before the whole thing came crushing down. It was thematic, it was tense, and it was exciting. Since then, I've played Flash Point with all the player numbers ranging from 2-6, and very few times has the game not produced an exciting experience. Flash Point is one of those games that after it's played, you sit there wondering how in the world this game hadn't been invented sooner. Rescuing victims from a burning building is a terrific theme for a co-op, and it's handled well from pillar to post so far. The expansion board, Flash Point: Fire Rescue Urban Structures, is even better than I first imagined it would be, as the high rise and duplex scenarios are varied and quite different. We finally beat the high rise the other day, and that's no small feat!

All in all, if you like having fun, and if you like co-ops, this game is for you. I don't care about random dice-rolling for fires, or whatever else people could come up with to complain about. Fires are inherently random, and any firefighter will tell you how risky and volatile the situation is. The game does an EXCELLENT job portraying the theme, and the game itself is solid and fun. My highest recommendation for what is one of my Top 10 co-op games and perhaps one of my favorite games, period.


Dungeons & Dragons: The Legend of Drizzt Board Game

Another co-op, this time a bit different. Well, different if you haven't played the first two D&D-based co-op games, Ravenloft and Ashardalon. This is the latest entry to the series, focused on the world of Drizzt, and I have to say that I haven't seen a lot of progression in the system. The differences between the three games is very little, mechanics-wise. But while I thought Ravenloft was okay (haven't gotten to play with the red dragon Ashardalon yet) Drizzt stands above it's older brother tall and proud. For one thing, Drizzt is less ugly than Ravenloft. Notice I didn't say "better looking". The tiles in Drizzt are illustrated much better, and even the traps have a nice-looking drawing on them, so you have an idea what's trying to kill you. The character cards are more fleshed-out, and the introduction of a few tweaks make them more enjoyable to play with. But at the heart of it, this is a continuation of the system that you're either going to like or dislike, really. I can't imagine anyone LOVING the system, unless they haven't played other co-ops. But for what it does, it does it well. My son and I will play through the quests, like we did with Ravenloft, and then sell or trade the copy. In my opinion, it's worth the "rental" -- keeping Drizzt for anything long-term, though, seems fruitless.


Discworld: Ankh-Morpork

I have to apologize for the title, but not knowing anything about the books had me stumped. And perhaps that's one of the reasons why this title did a huge bellyflop for me -- I really know nothing about Discworld. To be honest, from what a friend told me about the world as we played, I don't think I'd be very interested. I tend to take my fantasy reading quite seriously (Game of Thrones, Wheel of Time, Pillars of the Earth -- needs an "of" in the title, evidently) and the Discworld universe seems a bit ... whimsical. So while the books probably aren't for me, I discovered that the game wasn't either. Oh, perhaps it's not all that bad, and I will admit that I'm sure after four or five plays it might be quite tense, but after one play I came across quite sour on it.

You see, Discworld contains something that I DESPISE in games. DESPISE, all caps. Hidden objectives. And it's not just hidden objectives, it's hidden END THE GAME RIGHT NOW THIS SECOND objectives. That means that you can do what I was doing in my game, and trying to wind down the time so all the cards get played so I can win, and all of a sudden, someone slaps down a tower 15 minutes through and proclaims the game over. To me, this is not fun. Again, if I had known every single power then perhaps I could try and stop it. That would most likely lead to someone announcing to the group, "Hey! Todd has six towers and he needs one more to win if he had that objective! We must destroy his towers now!" kind of thing. And that can have its place and be fun. But I'm just not sure there's enough in this game to even get to that place. I understand Mr. Wallace wanting to design a game that a non-gaming fan of the series would get, and to be honest, I think he wins with that. But this game, and the series, isn't for me.

redtraingreentrainbluetrainyellowtrainblacktrainpurpletrain

All right! That's it for today. I take my sweet time in getting these things out, but I enjoy doing them when I can. Next around the corner I will take a look at 2010 (yup, not 2011) and hand out some gleaming trophies to my favorites. Expect a lot of groaning. Thanks for reading.
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Subscribe sub options Fri Jan 6, 2012 6:41 am
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Barad The Dwarf
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About discworld, normally each player has a players aid (at least it is in the collectors edition) on which all the different objectives stand. That's one of the big things, everyone should know what all the objectives are and thus a player must try and keep his goal secret but has to be working on it. I can see that if you don't know the goals the game can be over quite quickly. Oh and there is actually one novel with of in the title (if you don't count the young adult books) "Thief of Time"
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  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 9:17 am
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Andreas Krüger
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I didn't like Ank Morpork either due to its destructive nature. What you describe is the exact way the game plays out: Someone who know the victory conditions tells the others players who needs to be stopped, and everyones plans are constantly spoiled. The only hint of a theme are the card illustrations. Boring and destructive.

You should read at least one of the novels. Get advice from a fan where to start. The stories are much more complex than you would think for such a ridiculous world. But of course, it is still ridiculous. However, you cannot really decide if you hate the books just by a description of the world.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 11:30 am
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Alita The Heretic
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I enjoyed this post for your comments about Flash Point, we like Co-ops here and it looks like a good fit for us...I couldnt disagree with you more about Castle Ravenloft..personally I love that one and find it really expandable...
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  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 12:35 pm
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Kevin Salch
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Not to be a fan boy but there are 2 things about Discworld that you may have missed.

1While there are 7 goals, 3 of them are identical so that there are only 5 you have to know. And they are clearly pointed out on the player aids (in the standard edition as well)
2 They victory conditions need to be met at the START of your turn. So you can't just "slap down a tower..and proclaim the game over"

These 2 facts should be clearly presented in order for the game to shine. That being said. If you "despise" hidden objectives and like your fantasy more "serious" then this game is most likely not for you.

Couldn't agree with you more on Flash Point! What an awesome co-op
No opinion on Drizzt as I have not played it yet!
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  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 1:11 pm
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Jason Kotarski
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How do you think Drizzt would work for solo questing. I'd like to scratch the RPG/Adventure itch but I game with my wife who is not interested in this style of game at all. Would it be worth getting if I was going to play it by myself once in a while?

I was thinking about this one or Asharladon.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 1:49 pm
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Kevin B. Smith
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I haven't played any of the AD&D board games yet, but I have read that Drizzt does not include any spellcaster or healer characters to play. That's a significant issue, and if true, I wouldn't pick Drizzt as my first/only game in the series.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 2:37 pm
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Rick Baptist
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Barad_the_dwarf wrote:
About discworld, normally each player has a players aid (at least it is in the collectors edition) on which all the different objectives stand. That's one of the big things, everyone should know what all the objectives are and thus a player must try and keep his goal secret but has to be working on it. I can see that if you don't know the goals the game can be over quite quickly. Oh and there is actually one novel with of in the title (if you don't count the young adult books) "Thief of Time"


Barad - I guess that's another thing I forgot to mention, the whole Treefrog "Collector's Edition" thing has rubbed me the wrong way since a friend of mine bought London assuming that the wooden bits would have been in the $50 version he bought. Nope! So yeah, those aids should have been put in the original edition. But thanks for your insight. And thanks for letting me know that there IS an 'of' -- I might have to consider reading that one!
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  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 3:51 pm
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costguy wrote:
Not to be a fan boy but there are 2 things about Discworld that you may have missed.

1While there are 7 goals, 3 of them are identical so that there are only 5 you have to know. And they are clearly pointed out on the player aids (in the standard edition as well)
2 They victory conditions need to be met at the START of your turn. So you can't just "slap down a tower..and proclaim the game over"

These 2 facts should be clearly presented in order for the game to shine. That being said. If you "despise" hidden objectives and like your fantasy more "serious" then this game is most likely not for you.

Couldn't agree with you more on Flash Point! What an awesome co-op
No opinion on Drizzt as I have not played it yet!


Kevin - thanks for the input. I don't remember seeing an aid but it wouldn't do a first-time player much good I guess. That said, I retract my above complaint about it (although my annoyance on substandard components remains). Personally I am very happy with people liking the game, and I hope they do! It just was not for me for the reasons you mentioned at the end.

Glad you are enjoying Flash Point!
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  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 3:59 pm
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jguitarstring wrote:
How do you think Drizzt would work for solo questing. I'd like to scratch the RPG/Adventure itch but I game with my wife who is not interested in this style of game at all. Would it be worth getting if I was going to play it by myself once in a while?

I was thinking about this one or Asharladon.


Hi Jason -

Well, if you are adverse to dropping the $40-60 it requires to buy one of them before playing, give it a try somewhere first. The system is easy to learn and it works -- but it hasn't gone terrific with everyone I've introduced it to. Personally, I have only played Ravenloft solo one time, and the rest I have played with 2-4 players. I would consider myself a solo player as I have played Flash Point and Pandemic many, many times solo.

For me, Ravenloft didn't hold up solo because there is just not enough puzzling to the game to make it fascinating playing it by myself. I wanted to love it solo for the same reasons as you state but since it is a bit simple decision-wise it just seems a bit more fun for me to play with others on it, thereby creating situations and comments that we can laugh with together, strategize together ("you go here and I'll go there"), etc.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 4:05 pm
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SlikkRikk wrote:
Kevin - thanks for the input. I don't remember seeing an aid but it wouldn't do a first-time player much good I guess. That said, I retract my above complaint about it (although my annoyance on substandard components remains). Personally I am very happy with people liking the game, and I hope they do! It just was not for me for the reasons you mentioned at the end.

Glad you are enjoying Flash Point!


Rick
I only have the standard game so, yes the player aid (2 sided explaining the goals and cities as well as explaining the actions) is in the stadard game. My question is what are you refering to in "substandard components?"

As I said, I don't expect the game to appeal to all players. I think you were fair in your assment. Just wondering what you felt was "substandard?"


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  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 5:01 pm
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SlikkRikk wrote:
costguy wrote:
Not to be a fan boy but there are 2 things about Discworld that you may have missed.

1While there are 7 goals, 3 of them are identical so that there are only 5 you have to know. And they are clearly pointed out on the player aids (in the standard edition as well)
2 They victory conditions need to be met at the START of your turn. So you can't just "slap down a tower..and proclaim the game over"

These 2 facts should be clearly presented in order for the game to shine. That being said. If you "despise" hidden objectives and like your fantasy more "serious" then this game is most likely not for you.

Couldn't agree with you more on Flash Point! What an awesome co-op
No opinion on Drizzt as I have not played it yet!


Kevin - thanks for the input. I don't remember seeing an aid but it wouldn't do a first-time player much good I guess. That said, I retract my above complaint about it (although my annoyance on substandard components remains). Personally I am very happy with people liking the game, and I hope they do! It just was not for me for the reasons you mentioned at the end.

Glad you are enjoying Flash Point!


Yeah you should really correct the END NOW RIGHT THIS SECOND part.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 5:04 pm
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Do you have to announce at the end of your turn that you have completed your objectives and will win next turn if nobody stops you? If so, then the OP is a bit misleading.

If not, then I think the OP can stand as it is. At worst, it would change to:
Quote:
all of a sudden, 15 minutes through, a player proclaims the game over because on their previous turn they slapped down a tower.

Not a huge difference, in my opinion.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 5:28 pm
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peakhope wrote:
Do you have to announce at the end of your turn that you have completed your objectives and will win next turn if nobody stops you? If so, then the OP is a bit misleading.

If not, then I think the OP can stand as it is. At worst, it would change to:
Quote:
all of a sudden, 15 minutes through, a player proclaims the game over because on their previous turn they slapped down a tower.

Not a huge difference, in my opinion.


No you don't have to announce, You are correct, not a huge difference.

My point was that there are only 5 distinct win conditions. Part of playing the game is keeping track of these 5 win conditions that is what I think Rick is referring to as ""every single power."" These 5 conditions boil down to: area control, area influence, money, creating ""trouble"", and denying everyone else victory. It sounds like Rick had the ""Sam Vimes"" card and was ""wind(ing) down the time so all the cards get played so I can win"" when he should have been ""preventing the others from winning until the cards ran out."" Without the player aid this could be a difficult goal to achieve since you would have to memorize the 5 win conditions. It is clear that he was not using the player aid. Apparently this is not a style of play that appeals to Rick. That is all well and good, I don't expect the game to appeal to all players. (just like some people hate co-ops and won't like Flash Point) However, I don't want people to think that there are a lot of things to keep track of. (of course tolls (in the discworld) would consider 5 to be ""many one"" and not ""lots"") "

I am surmising that Rick's dissatisfaction is more from not liking the "style" of play.
If he had Sam Vimes he should have been aware of the 4 other winning conditions.
This is not a complicated game and the end should never come as a shock if you are playing it well.
This would be akin to someone saying they were shocked in Chess if after 10 moves someone "slaps down a horse and declares himself winner."
There are many people who don't like chess because they don't like the style of game. That is perfectly valid.
Ank Morpork may be a bit random (even chaotic) but the end should not be a shock.

In conclusion there is nothing wrong with Rick not liking the game. I just want to be clear that it is not a complicated game.


(edit for misplaced quote)
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  • Edited Fri Jan 6, 2012 6:47 pm
  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 6:45 pm
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Jason Kotarski
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Thanks, Rick. I appreciate you thoughts. Sounds like a "try before I buy" thing for sure.

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  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 8:38 pm
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costguy wrote:
My question is what are you refering to in "substandard components?"

As I said, I don't expect the game to appeal to all players. I think you were fair in your assment. Just wondering what you felt was "substandard?"


Above I mentioned that a friend paid a good amount of money for a copy of London to discover that all the wooden buildings that he played with on another's copy were replaced with chits. For the price he paid I was shocked that wooden bits had not been included. I had no problem at all with the standard of components in THIS game, however, but upon learning there was a "collector's edition" I was reminded of this atrocity.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 9:41 pm
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lfisher wrote:
Yeah you should really correct the END NOW RIGHT THIS SECOND part.


Lee -- from the game I played, nope, that's what happened. It was someone else's turn and the game ended, that second.

I experienced the same lovely phenomenon in other games such as Drakon, which annoyed me then and still annoys me now. Even, as Costguy points out, such strategies can be played against and avoided, and I surmise after a certain amount of plays looked out for (no real way to do this during a first play), Costguy is correct: This style of game is not for me.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 9:43 pm
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SlikkRikk wrote:
lfisher wrote:
Yeah you should really correct the END NOW RIGHT THIS SECOND part.


Lee -- from the game I played, nope, that's what happened. It was someone else's turn and the game ended, that second.

I experienced the same lovely phenomenon in other games such as Drakon, which annoyed me then and still annoys me now. Even, as Costguy points out, such strategies can be played against and avoided, and I surmise after a certain amount of plays looked out for (no real way to do this during a first play), Costguy is correct: This style of game is not for me.


That's understandable, but did someone slap down a tower and immediately win? Or no one realized they were winning and they won at the beginning of your next turn?
You can only win at the beginning of your turn, not immediately after you do something, so we were trying to understand if you played correctly. If this rule is messed up, the game certainly sucks a lot more.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 9:51 pm
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SlikkRikk wrote:
costguy wrote:
My question is what are you refering to in "substandard components?"

As I said, I don't expect the game to appeal to all players. I think you were fair in your assment. Just wondering what you felt was "substandard?"


Above I mentioned that a friend paid a good amount of money for a copy of London to discover that all the wooden buildings that he played with on another's copy were replaced with chits. For the price he paid I was shocked that wooden bits had not been included. I had no problem at all with the standard of components in THIS game, however, but upon learning there was a "collector's edition" I was reminded of this atrocity.


Thanks for the clarification. I thought the components of the standard edition of this game were good as well. Cardboard chits when done right (Flash Point) can be fine.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 6, 2012 10:32 pm
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Dont forget "Feet of Clay", one of my favorites.
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  • Posted Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:07 pm
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Who's the more foolish? The fool or fool that plays after the fool?
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willco wrote:
Dont forget "Feet of Clay", one of my favorites.

Also "A Hat Full of Sky", but you have to read the Wee Free Men first for that one (the Tiffany Aching stories are all excellent).
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  • Posted Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:46 pm
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willco wrote:
Dont forget "Feet of Clay", one of my favorites.


I love all the City Watch books. What I like about Pratchett's Discworld series is that he uses it to play with different genres, meaning that different books can appeal to different audiences. The Watch books are mystery/procedural/thrillers which have a lot to say about modern city life and how groups of people act. Jingo, for example, is a simple but clever mockery of, naturally, the jingoism that can spring up out of nowhere and drive apparently sensible people to want a senseless war. The Lipwig books are con man thrillers that delve into how and why people can be tricked/convinced into doing things. Pratchett also has some sub-series that are much more conventional fantasy (the Witches) which I haven't read much of, and then some largely unconnected to anything else (Moving Pictures).

So I guess what I mean to say is - don't write Discworld off because it's a parody. When the books work, and they often do, that parody can cut pretty deep and say a lot. Pratchett is good at creating interesting characters, and for all my love for epic fantasy, some of those writers (cough *Jordan, RIP, but seriously* cough) could learn from his ability to tell a compelling story, in a short novel, and keep innovating from book to book despite a huge number of titles at this point. I have little to no interest in economic theory, but Making Money was a darn good book, and that's an accomplishment in my mind.

However, for all that I love Discworld, I still feel Pratchett's crowning achievement is his collaboration with Neil Gaiman (another of my favorites): Good Omens. Best and funniest book of the apocalypse there is and ever will be!
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  • Posted Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:36 pm
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