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iOS Board Games

Among the best things in life is playing printed games in person with family and close friends. When those are not convenient we like iOS Board Games. News, reviews, previews, and opinions about board gaming on iPhones, iPads, iPods and even Android devices. (iPhone board games, iPad board games, iPod board games, Android board games)
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iOS Release: Titan VG Edition

Posted by Gabe Alvaro
21 Dec 2011
Gabe Alvaro
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Name: Titan VG Edition

Device: iOS iPad

Launch Price: $7.99

Players: 1-6

Multiplayer: Pass and Play

Seller/Developer: Valley Games
Also: http://www.facebook.com/titanforipad

iTunes: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/titan-vg-edition/id488026817

Release, update, price tracking info on Appshopper.com: http://appshopper.com/games/titan-vg-edition
(available soon)

Based on BGG Entry: Titan

VGG Entry: None yet.

Notes: Thats it! All other board game app developers can just quit now. Just kidding.

The classic game of the fantasy monster slug-a-thon from the 1980's, one-time "grail" game, and lovingly reprinted by Valley Games, Inc., has also now been gloriously implemented by the same Valley Games. It is their first foray into tablet board game apps. This one has been very much anticipated by the iPad crowd.

This app's got AI and local multiplayer now, with online play planned and under development. We think that's certainly enough to get the diehard table board gamers interested. We'll be curious to know if this one will be good enough to get the iPad-fence-sitters to finally take the leap. I guess we'll see soon enough.








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143 Comments
Subscribe sub options Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:43 pm
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Soylent Green
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The pictures say for 2 to 6 players - local or VS AI.

Can I assume you are saying 2 players - being 1 live player and 1 AI player?

Just seems misleading when you say 1-6 players up top - but then 2-6 in the picture.

My assumption is "players" count for both live players and AI players. Yes in single player there is only 1 live player - but "2 players" with the second being AI.

Right?
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:48 pm
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Gabe Alvaro
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SoylentRed wrote:
The pictures say for 2 to 6 players - local or VS AI.

Can I assume you are saying 2 players - being 1 live player and 1 AI player?

Just seems misleading when you say 1-6 players up top - but then 2-6 in the picture.

My assumption is "players" count for both live players and AI players. Yes in single player there is only 1 live player - but "2 players" with the second being AI.

Right?


Right. I've always used 1-x for shorthand to indicate how many human players an app can support in any play mode. The 2-6 in the picture is the developer saying that a game will be 2- to 6- player games.

If the app actually required two human players (gods forbid!) I would indicate so with 2-6. That's just how I've been doing it.
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  • Edited Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:54 pm
  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:52 pm
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Will Todd
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What it means is that you need at least two opponents in the game, but you can play against the AI with just the one human. You can also watch a game vs all AI as well, or have up to 6 human players.

I got to be part of the beat test for a few weeks.
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:54 pm
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James Ludlow
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How good is the AI?

 
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:55 pm
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The Gray Dog Passes Go
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blindspot wrote:
If the app actually required two human players (gods forbid!)...

**Cough**Cyclades**Cough**
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:57 pm
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Drooooooooooool


there goes $8.
 
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:01 pm
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Ron Bahimi
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$8? Sounds like a ripoff.

Call me when it's $.99 and comes with fifty Angry Birds levels!

(The above post may have contained ironic intent.)
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:11 pm
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George Ramos
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Great, now I'll have THREE versions of this game. At least this one will get played more than once a year!
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:13 pm
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Art Vandelay
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when is this supposed to be available?
 
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:14 pm
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Vern Shurtz
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CaptainCosmic wrote:

**Cough**Cyclades**Cough**


**Cough** Cyclades has no AI **Cough**

fbi_boy wrote:
when is this supposed to be available?


iTunes link above. It's but a click away.

Gable, You really need to add this info to the toucharcade.com forums under ipad games. Huge traffic on that site.

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  • Edited Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:33 pm
  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:23 pm
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The Gray Dog Passes Go
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Vernimator wrote:
**Cough** Cyclades has no AI **Cough**

Um ... yes. I know. See, that's where the joke comes in.

I'll explain it for you:

1. Gabe mentions how horrible it would be if Titan required two humans;

2. Which is what Cyclades already does;

3. Thus, I mention Cyclades with the ironic coughing noise.

Does that clear it up?
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:33 pm
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Andres Rueff
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WTF no EU release? at least im not finding it in eu app store

Update: its available since few minutes in EU
 
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  • Edited Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:40 pm
  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:35 pm
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J Lacson
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CaptainCosmic wrote:
Vernimator wrote:
**Cough** Cyclades has no AI **Cough**

Um ... yes. I know. See, that's where the joke comes in.

I'll explain it for you:

1. Gabe mentions how horrible it would be if Titan required two humans;

2. Which is what Cyclades already does;

3. Thus, I mention Cyclades with the ironic coughing noise.

Does that clear it up?
now that was funny!!
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:48 pm
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Jon P
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All,

When I go on my iPad and search for Titan, I cannot find it

Is it up there yet?

Thx
jonpfl
 
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:02 pm
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Tim Jordan
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Does it track any sort of career stats for us single players vs. AI?
 
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:05 pm
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Andres Rueff
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also didnt find it thru app store, click on the link in the first topic.
 
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:06 pm
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The Gray Dog Passes Go
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Yeah, it's weird that App Store searches often don't work on the first day of release. Or they don't seem to work the same way for everyone. Strange database stuff, I guess.

When in doubt, always follow a direct link on the first day.
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:08 pm
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Dave Howe
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The iTunes link above works. For such a complex game, it has one of the smallest descriptions I've seen on the iTunes app page. They should at least include a link to their Facebook page, or a video.
 
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:13 pm
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Dave Mansell
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Can someone please tell me if this has a good tutorial? I'm very interested, but only if I can learn the game from the app. Thanks!
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  • Edited Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:44 pm
  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:43 pm
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Vern Shurtz
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CaptainCosmic wrote:
Vernimator wrote:
**Cough** Cyclades has no AI **Cough**

Um ... yes. I know. See, that's where the joke comes in.

I'll explain it for you:

1. Gabe mentions how horrible it would be if Titan required two humans;

2. Which is what Cyclades already does;

3. Thus, I mention Cyclades with the ironic coughing noise.

Does that clear it up?


Ah, I see.. Should have read into that. Thought it was a shameful plug...
 
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:53 pm
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The Gray Dog Passes Go
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LOL, no I'd likely be the last person to plug Cyclades. I was stunned it didn't include AI. I was so sure it would that I came close to actually starting the download ... but then a sneaking suspicion made me read the app description first. As I said: stunned.

As far as Titan goes ... downloading now. Fingers crossed. I really think the iPad could be a great setting for a "bigger" game like this.
 
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:58 pm
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Jon P
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CaptainCosmic wrote:
LOL, no I'd likely be the last person to plug Cyclades. I was stunned it didn't include AI. I was so sure it would that I came close to actually starting the download ... but then a sneaking suspicion made me read the app description first. As I said: stunned.

As far as Titan goes ... downloading now. Fingers crossed. I really think the iPad could be a great setting for a "bigger" game like this.


Can you please let us know if there is a tutorial for people who have no clue what the game is about

If it does, I will buy it

Thx
jonpfl
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:17 pm
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Downloaded, Full instructions and tips but no tutorial that I see. BEAUTIFULLY IMPLEMENTED! Definitely worth the $8!

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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:22 pm
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There is a link o the home screen to "The law of Titan" which is the rules. Not sure if reading rules is what you're looking for, but at least there should be a way to learn the game besides trial & error.
 
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:24 pm
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Jon P
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cannoneer wrote:
There is a link o the home screen to "The law of Titan" which is the rules. Not sure if reading rules is what you're looking for, but at least there should be a way to learn the game besides trial & error.


For all you veteran Titan players, are the rules an easy read and somewhat easy to understand?

Thx
jonpfl
 
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:26 pm
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Ken
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jonpfl wrote:
cannoneer wrote:
There is a link o the home screen to "The law of Titan" which is the rules. Not sure if reading rules is what you're looking for, but at least there should be a way to learn the game besides trial & error.


For all you veteran Titan players, are the rules an easy read and somewhat easy to understand?

Thx
jonpfl


No, not particularly. The app does include a tutorial that I haven't tried out (being a veteran myself), and there's "Helpful tips" that appear as balloons as you play and do a good job of cluing you in to some of the areas where people frequently trip on the rules.
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:31 pm
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Well, that was $8 gone quick.

Not a bad implementation. Some quirks I wouldn't mind seeing fixed in future versions. For example, it'd be nice to let me tap on a legion and highlight where it can move until I tap somewhere else. The tap & hold mechanism is OK, but does make it hard to see some of the options. You can also get some odd looking legion placement when you're moving things every once in a while.

I would definitely like to see settings that let me view everything that I've seen in a stack (a la Colossus). With the speed of AI players, tracking what's in what legion can be nigh-on impossible and that's pretty critical information that you usually can track more easily playing face-to-face.

I'd similarly love to see the options for the AI changed so that I can play against nothing but the hard opponents. They're ranked from 1-3 stars, but you can't repeat an individual AI so the hardest mix you can get playing solo is two of the hard, two of the medium, and one of the easy.

Gorgeous adaptation of the VG version of the game, though. I'm nostalgic for the old artwork sometimes (where's the ogre with the baseball bat?), so it'd be even better if you could go old school, but I know that's probably impossible due to copyright. But a solid implementation of the game.
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:39 pm
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AI is sadly not that good.

I just played my first game with 5 opponents. Strategic move seems fine but tactical not!

I had a fight with an opponent Titan. He attacked me in marsh with brush/jungle creatures and I defended with ranged troops.

He stoped attacking me! I just shoot them with dragon/minotaur/rangers and he just sit back with his remaining 2 cyclops and titan and don't move! I killed the cyclops and let the fight run out of time. Very bad performance for a titan battle!

I had another fight against 3 lions in brushes. They also don't attack my ranged troops instead I just shot them one by one.
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:40 pm
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Man, I really need an iPad now!! I wish they would release this for MacOs as well like FF did with Elder Sign
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:40 pm
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To those that have bought this, approximately how long are games taking? Also, how many AI's are you playing with to get that game length? Thanks in advance!
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:50 pm
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Calmon70 wrote:
AI is sadly not that good.

I just played my first game with 5 opponents. Strategic move seems fine but tactical not!

I had a fight with an opponent Titan. He attacked me in marsh with brush/jungle creatures and I defended with ranged troops.

He stoped attacking me! I just shoot them with dragon/minotaur/rangers and he just sit back with his remaining 2 cyclops and titan and don't move! I killed the cyclops and let the fight run out of time. Very bad performance for a titan battle!

I had another fight against 3 lions in brushes. They also don't attack my ranged troops instead I just shot them one by one.


You weren't playing against the 'stupid' AI by mistake, were you?
 
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  • Edited Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:52 pm
  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:50 pm
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Stefan Scheuermann
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cannoneer wrote:
Calmon70 wrote:
AI is sadly not that good.

I just played my first game with 5 opponents. Strategic move seems fine but tactical not!

I had a fight with an opponent Titan. He attacked me in marsh with brush/jungle creatures and I defended with ranged troops.

He stoped attacking me! I just shoot them with dragon/minotaur/rangers and he just sit back with his remaining 2 cyclops and titan and don't move! I killed the cyclops and let the fight run out of time. Very bad performance for a titan battle!

I had another fight against 3 lions in brushes. They also don't attack my ranged troops instead I just shot them one by one.


You weren't playing against the 'stupid' AI by mistake, were you?


Well when you want a game with 5 opponents you only can choose two 3 star opponents, two 2 star opponent and one 1 star opponent.

Its not possible to choose 5 3-star opponents.

But the single 1 star opponent died in second turn so its was definitly at least the 2-stars playing that stupid.
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  • Edited Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:02 pm
  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:02 pm
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Tony Broad
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any one bought this in the uk? I cant find it at all
 
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:36 pm
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Tony M
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Haven't bought it but the link in Gabe's release notes takes me to the app.
 
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  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:43 pm
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Here's a link to a 2-page rules summary, here on BGG (uploaded by Grimnir):
http://files.boardgamegeek.com/file/download/5g3l45nb0f/tita...?

Hopefully will help with the iPad version as well. (Can anyone confirm this?)

Sooo tempted to buy this. I hope it doesn't for on sale for $0.99 the next day.
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  • Edited Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:16 pm
  • Posted Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:11 pm
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Jon Quinn
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Looks good.

But my first game lasted only 3 turns. It was a 3 player game, me versus AI versus AI (both 3 stars - the toughest). One AI's Titan stack attacked my Titan stack and both of our Titans died giving the win to the other AI.

More play will be required to see if the AI is always that reckless... to attack a stack with equal numbers using his Titan stack (and not knowing for sure that that was the stack that contained mt Titan).
 
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  • Edited Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:02 am
  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:00 am
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Scott Tooker
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Initial impressions after playing through a game:

- Graphics and presentation are very nice and what I come to expect in an iPad game. It's a good reproduction of the VG version of Titan given the restrictions of the iPad. I look forward to Valley Games future efforts on the iPad.

- Like others, I'd prefer a tap or double-tap interface for selecting units. The current tap and hold up with my big hands leads to a lot of the board being blocked.

- I think the current experience will work well for experienced players, but I hope future versions will provide some options to make it more friendly to the newcomer. For example, right now the AI plays super fast, making it hard to track what is going on. I would have liked to slow down the play speed to see what is going on. Also, a tutorial or some sort would be a good addition, as well as having more control over the types of AI used.

- Given the speed of the AI playing, adding some unit tracking (as others mentioned) would be helpful. In addition, providing some indication of what was recruited on their last turn (as compared to the other untis that you might know about) would also be nice.

- my group tends to just play to the first elimination, but I didn't see anyway to set that.

- Assuming that online will be added later free of charge, I think the price, $7.99, is fine and one I'm happy to pay for this level of quality and polish.

- Haven't played enough to comment on the AI's performance
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:02 am
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Hugh G. Rection
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I hope Stronghold is next!

Edit: I see that it's due in 2012. Nice.
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Hugh_G_Rection wrote:
I hope Stronghold is next!

Edit: I see that it's due in 2012. Nice.
wow
 
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:30 am
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Although I have an iPad, I still prefer they release iPhone version as well as I bring my phone all day but not the Pad.
 
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Eeeville wrote:
To those that have bought this, approximately how long are games taking? Also, how many AI's are you playing with to get that game length? Thanks in advance!


I played me vs. 5 AIs (as hard as you can set the game) and the game lasted about 25-30 minutes. 41 total turns, though I'll admit I was just showboating to get that last serpent into my titan stack at the end.

I'd also note that I went back to see how well the tutorial works, and don't see a way to turn it back on after you've decided not to follow it the first time. That could be a bit of a bugaboo for some, since this could be a really good way to expose someone to the mechanics of the game. I may just be dense or not looking hard enough, but having the option to do the tutorial at will would be very, very good for a game like this.
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Calmon70 wrote:
AI is sadly not that good.

I just played my first game with 5 opponents. Strategic move seems fine but tactical not!

I had a fight with an opponent Titan. He attacked me in marsh with brush/jungle creatures and I defended with ranged troops.

He stoped attacking me! I just shoot them with dragon/minotaur/rangers and he just sit back with his remaining 2 cyclops and titan and don't move! I killed the cyclops and let the fight run out of time. Very bad performance for a titan battle!

I had another fight against 3 lions in brushes. They also don't attack my ranged troops instead I just shot them one by one.


Calmon (hello!) - are you a skilled player? I missed out on Titan and have always wanted to play so was thinking about picking this up but hope to have a somewhat challenging AI...

dc
 
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Kevin Goodman
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Some people seem to be suggesting that there is a tutorial while others are saying there is not.

Could someone please clarify what learning aids the game includes besides formal rules, and "helpful tips"?
 
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Jonathan Young
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This is looking good, but I know nothing about the game at all. Is it a sort of wargame or something?
 
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Kris Giesing
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Hi all,

I'm very pleased that we were able to release the game in time for Christmas.

I know the game is not perfect; if we'd tried to make it perfect before releasing, it wouldn't be out until sometime next year (assuming you think "perfect" is even achievable ). I'm very interested to hear feedback on how to improve gameplay, particularly for new players, who I hope will find the game more approachable in this form.

There are multiple ways to give feedback. iTunes App Store reviews will be the most visible, accessible to all players. Feedback on BoardGameGeek might be easier for us to miss, but of course the BGG community is a valuable resource and we'll try to monitor discussions here as well as we can. Finally, there is a feedback link in-game (in the About or Info panel accessible from the main screen) which you can use to send us direct emails.

I hope you enjoy the game, and I look forward to making it even better with your help!

Thanks,

- Kris
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Kris Giesing
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Hi Keven,

There is no explicit tutorial. The tip system introduces new players to both game concepts and UI as play advances. I've tried to cover all the major factors of gameplay, while leaving the more specific information (such as the master hazard chart) to the reference material.

I'd be interested to hear if this system is sufficient (potentially with additional or more detailed tips) or if an explicit tutorial would be better.

We also have plans to create more linkages between the main UI and reference material in-context: for example, long touch on a Hazard to bring up reference information on that Hazard, and similarly for Terrain information on the Masterboard.

Thanks,

- Kris
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Ken
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don corazon wrote:
Calmon (hello!) - are you a skilled player? I missed out on Titan and have always wanted to play so was thinking about picking this up but hope to have a somewhat challenging AI...

dc


The three star AIs are actually decent opponents. The two stars will be easy to defeat with a good understanding of strategy and tactics. The one stars are idiots.
 
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ZyronEnder wrote:
Some people seem to be suggesting that there is a tutorial while others are saying there is not.

Could someone please clarify what learning aids the game includes besides formal rules, and "helpful tips"?


The "helpful tips" actually are quite helpful if you're a new player. I deleted and reinstalled the app and I may have been hallucinating when I said it prompted me to go through a tutorial. That didn't happen, which makes me think I read the "helpful tips" balloon that appears first wrong.
 
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Really good implementation. The tips only serve to give you basic hints - it doesn't explain the entire game. The entire rulebook is included, however. I've played twice and games with 3 players (me vs. 2 AI) lasted about 20-30 min. Money well spent I think.

BTW: This is the ONLY way I would play Titan. I've played the board game version - and you could literally play another game while waiting for your turn. No kidding. So the speed here is very refreshing.
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Stefan Scheuermann
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don corazon wrote:
Calmon70 wrote:
AI is sadly not that good.

I just played my first game with 5 opponents. Strategic move seems fine but tactical not!

I had a fight with an opponent Titan. He attacked me in marsh with brush/jungle creatures and I defended with ranged troops.

He stoped attacking me! I just shoot them with dragon/minotaur/rangers and he just sit back with his remaining 2 cyclops and titan and don't move! I killed the cyclops and let the fight run out of time. Very bad performance for a titan battle!

I had another fight against 3 lions in brushes. They also don't attack my ranged troops instead I just shot them one by one.


Calmon (hello!) - are you a skilled player? I missed out on Titan and have always wanted to play so was thinking about picking this up but hope to have a somewhat challenging AI...

dc


Its not really challenging for experienced players (played titan a lot in the past). The AI is far to aggressive with his titans strategic wise and makes a lot of mistakes in tactic battles in general.

Also I usually have a lot more stacks than AI has. If you split consequent you easily outnumber the AI very fast.
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Kris Giesing
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Calmon70 wrote:
Its not really challenging for experienced players (played titan a lot in the past). The AI is far to aggressive with his titans strategic wise and makes a lot of mistakes in tactic battles in general.

Also I usually have a lot more stacks than AI has. If you split consequent you easily outnumber the AI very fast.


I wanted to take this opportunity to address the more experienced players.

I know the AI doesn't yet stack up to tournament-level play. There are some good reasons for this (the computational complexity of Battleland maneuvering and combat being one of them) and some not-so-good (the AI's inability to see the totality of implications for its moves, e.g. predicting summons and recruitment timing in advance, recognizing when opponents will earn Angels through battle, etc). I have some plans to overhaul the AI at some point in a way that will hopefully improve high-level play.

However, there is another strategy for providing expert opponents, and that is enabling online multiplayer. That's the strategy I'd like to pursue first, because it benefits both new and experienced players, and I hope that it will grow the fan base for the game in a way that better AI might not. I'm also not entirely sure how successful I'll ultimately be at improving the AI; providing online play will remove the bottleneck on my own understanding of Titan strategy, which, as I learned at WBC this year, is not nearly so advanced as I had been letting myself believe

So that's the current thinking. I will probably take some time to fix the more brain-dead suiciding that happens with the weaker AIs, because I realize it's not very satisfying to plan out detailed Masterplay only to have your opponent suicide in what should have been a minor skirmish. But that won't fix the deeper problems with the AI that stronger players will recognize, so I mention it just in the interest of complete disclosure.

Cheers,

- Kris
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Brian Williams
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tab1359 wrote:
any one bought this in the uk? I cant find it at all


Definitely is. I bought a copy last night well over an hour before your post.

This was an automatic purchase for me but, sad to say, I am disappointed at first sight. The screen is far too cluttered and I have not yet found a way of expanding units/parts of the mapboard so that I can see them properly. This is usually the big advantage of the iPad but this implementation takes no advantage of the platform. Battles are a little difficult when it is hard to identify the units. This reminds me a little of the early releases of Ticket To Ride on the iPad where the colours were not distinctive enough and I had trouble distinguishing betwenm them (to their eternal credit the developers adjusted the colours after the problem was brought to their attention). I can but hope that such things are addressed in an update. Until then, I suspect that I will be playing Colossus rather more often than iPad Titan (or the AH and VG sets that I have, come to that).
 
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xu xinhao


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Great! my favourate game
 
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:45 am
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Geo
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Don't forget that there's also a free Java version:

http://colossus.sourceforge.net/

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Christopher Taylor-Davies
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kgiesing wrote:
Hi all,



There are multiple ways to give feedback.

I hope you enjoy the game, and I look forward to making it even better with your help!

Thanks,

- Kris


Hi there - I have never played Titan, but managed to figure things out reasonably well. It would be good to be able to zoom on the map in order to be able to plan movement. The symbols are a bit baffling to beginners!

In general though, the interface is well done. I particularly like how easy it is to get to the manual regardless of where you are.

Very solid first release
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Peter B
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GeoMan wrote:
Don't forget that there's also a free Java version:

http://colossus.sourceforge.net/



There's really no comparison whatsoever. While I'm glad that Colossus exists, it has nowhere near the level of polish of Titan VG for iPad.

I've been in the beta for a few weeks, and just bought the final release last night. The UI is great (I have a few very minor complaints, that I've communicated to the developer, but overall I'd say it has a better UI than 95% of 1.0 boardgames on any platform, which is impressive). What I've found is that not only is it an enjoyable game to "practice" against the computer with, but it's well-designed enough that I have been able to introduce casual gamers to Titan using the iPad as a shared game board. Previous attempts to do this with the physical game or with Colossus both failed; the physical game has too much downtime and finicky chit-management, and Colossus just plain isn't polished enough.

Sure, it's hard to argue with "free", but in this particular case I view the $8 I spent on the iPad edition as likely being the best boardgame-related investment I've made all year.
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Ryan Full
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I really would like a new meaty game on the iPad but simply reading the rules completely doesn't do it for me. I will have to see if I can hunt up some video tutorials online.

If I can find something to teach me the game I will probably buy it immediately.
 
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Played a bit of this, and so far it looks really good. The UI is slick, and it uses the art from the Valley Games reprint, which I (mostly) love. Playing against the AI, turns move very quickly, so it's possible to play a full game in a reasonable span of time. The AI seems pretty competent, though it's a bit too enthusiastic when it comes to summoning Angels. Overall, thumbs up.

A few criticisms:

1. I wish the animations were slower--and more discrete--for AI player turns. When an AI player moves, they move ALL of their stacks at once. It's just "zip!" And suddenly the stacks are in new positions with recruits on top, and you sort of have to study the board to try to figure out what just happened. The same thing on the battle maps: the enemy units move and attack all at once. It's just "ZIP!" and suddenly all the enemy units are in new positions and some damage numbers are floating up from various units and you're left wondering "What just happened?" I get that they want to speed up the pace of the game, but I wish that the AI would take its turn like a human would--move one stack at a time on the main board (with a little more emphasis on what each stack is recruiting), one unit at a time on the battle maps. Show the attack reticle sliding from each attacker to each defender in turn. Use quick animations, certainly, but perhaps pace it a bit slower than instantaneous.

2. This is a minor "armchair designer" criticism, but I miss the dice in battles. One of the visceral joys of Titan combat is rolling crazy handfuls of dice, and while they show you the move die on the main board, the battle rolls all take place under the hood. I'd love to see the actual die results for each attack, just lined up in an overlay across the top or bottom of the screen. Bonus points for adding dice rolling sound effects that changes based on the number of dice rolled. When I attack with my Serpent, I want to *hear* those eighteen dice hitting the table, and then see whether or not I managed to Yahtzee.

3. They really need a button for "show/hide last muster." I appreciate that they leave the last muster on the top of the stacks after the other players take their turns, but then if I want to see the stack markers again, I have to tap each individual stack that mustered last turn. The game needs one button to show or hide all of them.
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Jon P
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miyu wrote:
I really would like a new meaty game on the iPad but simply reading the rules completely doesn't do it for me. I will have to see if I can hunt up some video tutorials online.

If I can find something to teach me the game I will probably buy it immediately.


I have never played the game before but I just ordered it hoping I like it. Even if I do not, I do not mind giving money to worthwhile developers as I know they will continue to pump out cool games!!

Thx
jonpfl
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jonpfl wrote:
I have never played the game before but I just ordered it hoping I like it. Even if I do not, I do not mind giving money to worthwhile developers as I know they will continue to pump out cool games!!

I'm glad to hear there are folks like me! I've often bought a game just to support the developer. But I think you might like this one - if you like fantasy-war games and the like. Titan is essentially a series of skirmishes with fantastic creatures.
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Neil Carr
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Finally! I think I can finally enjoy this game. Playing the board game was just too fussy. Now with everything automated I can just get into the game itself.
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The Don de Corazones
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I remember thinking about buying the physical game - what was it selling for... $80 probably. This seems like a steal, looks beautiful, and it is always a good sign to see the designers interacting with the players. I'll be buying it tonight!

PS thanks for the input Calmon. NAP-3?
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:50 pm
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The Gray Dog Passes Go
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Sorry to day I feel like I just set fire to $8.

This is an app for Titan veterans ... and that's just not me. The AI turns go by far too quickly, there's not nearly enough transparency, and a detailed tutorial is desperately needed. Yes, I see there's the rulebook right there, but that's not the best way to learn things in what is a very visual environment. I'm lost, mystified, frustrated, and unwilling to spend a single minute more trying to solve this puzzle.

Reviews of this app are already breaking down along two lines: Titan veterans are loving it; newcomers are overwhelmed. The developer would do well to recognize that there are a lot of us in that second group.

Deleted.
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Dave Howe
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I just checked the price as well: Amazon has it for $51.

I might be taking the plunge and purchasing the physical copy as well!
 
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CaptainCosmic wrote:
Sorry to day I feel like I just set fire to $8.

This is an app for Titan veterans ... and that's just not me. The AI turns go by far too quickly, there's not nearly enough transparency, and a detailed tutorial is desperately needed. Yes, I see there's the rulebook right there, but that's not the best way to learn things in what is a very visual environment. I'm lost, mystified, frustrated, and unwilling to spend a single minute more trying to solve this puzzle.

Reviews of this app are already breaking down along two lines: Titan veterans are loving it; newcomers are overwhelmed. The developer would do well to recognize that there are a lot of us in that second group.

Deleted.


I am going to assume the developer will be reading this stuff and will put a way to slow down moves and hopefully a tutorial.

Or at the very least, maybe some kind soul could put up a video explanation of the iPad version.

It sounds like they plan to keep enhanching it so even if it seems overwhelming right now, I expect it to be polished and easier to learn with each new update

Thx
jonpfl
 
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Ryan Full
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CaptainCosmic wrote:
Sorry to day I feel like I just set fire to $8.

This is an app for Titan veterans ... and that's just not me. The AI turns go by far too quickly, there's not nearly enough transparency, and a detailed tutorial is desperately needed. Yes, I see there's the rulebook right there, but that's not the best way to learn things in what is a very visual environment. I'm lost, mystified, frustrated, and unwilling to spend a single minute more trying to solve this puzzle.

Reviews of this app are already breaking down along two lines: Titan veterans are loving it; newcomers are overwhelmed. The developer would do well to recognize that there are a lot of us in that second group.

Deleted.


I really wonder if so app developers are focusing on making a wonderful board game conversion and neglecting to consider their audience consists of both board gamers and video gamers.

Even some of the games I really like (like Ghost Stories) only kept my attention because I was really willing to devote much more effort than normal to read the rules and learn the game. That completely runs contrary to my video game desires.

Even in current console video game design they don't give you the rules in the booklet anymore. It is absolutely expected that the first level or two of a game will take you by the hand and teach you the mechanics of the game. Apps, for better or for worse, really need to take that into account.

I hope it is simply a learning curve as brilliant board game designers work with programmers to adapt their vision to what a video gamer wants. I think video gamers who haven't dabbled in board games will be stunned at the complexity and fun that can be found... but they have to be taught in a manner that they understand.

And by they - I totally mean me. I despise trying to read rule books and ever since board games started coming to the PC and then XBLA I preferred to pick them up in that format simply because I wouldn't have to read rules since the tutorial would teach me the game.
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:14 pm
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Dr. Awkward
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CaptainCosmic wrote:
Sorry to day I feel like I just set fire to $8.

This is an app for Titan veterans ... and that's just not me. The AI turns go by far too quickly, there's not nearly enough transparency, and a detailed tutorial is desperately needed. Yes, I see there's the rulebook right there, but that's not the best way to learn things in what is a very visual environment. I'm lost, mystified, frustrated, and unwilling to spend a single minute more trying to solve this puzzle.

Reviews of this app are already breaking down along two lines: Titan veterans are loving it; newcomers are overwhelmed. The developer would do well to recognize that there are a lot of us in that second group.

Deleted.


Not a veteran. Love it.
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:14 pm
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I loved the old boardgame but as has been mentioned earlier in this thread I also became a bit disenchanted by being knocked out halfway through the game in the 'good old' days. However, this app looks as though it could be the answer to my ineptitude.

Regarding online play, have you any plans to introduce pbem play (turn based)as opposed to online multiplayer (where I assume all players have to be online at once)? Online multiplayer won't suit our games group but pbem games(like the excellent Starbase Orion) are perfect for time limited people like us.

Good luck with this app.


 
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The Gray Dog Passes Go
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miyu wrote:
Even in current console video game design they don't give you the rules in the booklet anymore. It is absolutely expected that the first level or two of a game will take you by the hand and teach you the mechanics of the game. Apps, for better or for worse, really need to take that into account.

This is so true that it deserves its own call-out.

It seems clear that iOS boardgame developers need to be including at least one of the following two options if they want to lure, entertain, and keep players:

1. A tutorial. A good one. Covering everything that could reasonably be expected to know how to play the game at a low level. Movement, combat, special abilities, whatever, yada-yada-yada — it all needs to be included.

2. Sample turns (or levels or whatever): A step-by-step look at how a turn is played, whether it's leading the players with prompts or just showing two AI guys playing each other. Either way works. But it needs to show how A leads to B, which then can lead to C or D, etc. Again, this needs to be a full turn or a full level.

Needs to be included, even if no one really reads it:

3. The rulebook. But this isn't a printed game, where the players will have to read the full rules. This is a visual and mobile platform we're talking about. It's different. And this is where Titan fumbled, big-time, at least if the developer ever hopes to attract any newcomers. The full "Law of Titan" is included ... but it doesn't do a damn thing to help anyone actually play the game.
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:28 pm
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Bahimiron wrote:
$8? Sounds like a ripoff.

Call me when it's $.99 and comes with fifty Angry Birds levels!

(The above post may have contained ironic intent.)
Double check... it's $7.99 (The above post may have contained more ironic intent.)
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:39 pm
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Kris Giesing
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CaptainCosmic wrote:
Sorry to day I feel like I just set fire to $8.

This is an app for Titan veterans ... and that's just not me. The AI turns go by far too quickly, there's not nearly enough transparency, and a detailed tutorial is desperately needed. Yes, I see there's the rulebook right there, but that's not the best way to learn things in what is a very visual environment. I'm lost, mystified, frustrated, and unwilling to spend a single minute more trying to solve this puzzle.

Reviews of this app are already breaking down along two lines: Titan veterans are loving it; newcomers are overwhelmed. The developer would do well to recognize that there are a lot of us in that second group.

Deleted.


I'm sorry to hear your initial experience wasn't positive. We definitely do value new players and I think we have more work to do to make the game more approachable.

As the game stands right now, it probably best serves moderately experienced players: people who have played a game or two of the printed version, so generally know how things work, but aren't so experienced that the current AI bores them. Probably not coincidentally, that's the category I am in myself.

The current thinking around the next update is to introduce online multiplayer. However, if we have missed the mark too badly with respect to new players, we can change that to shift more effort towards video intros, tutorials, or better tips.

If it were me running the app store, I would gladly refund your $8, but I don't think that's possible. As it stands I think the best we can do is take your feedback and try to improve the game. Perhaps with some effort we can entice you back to the game, because I truly, honestly believe it is a great one at its core (meaning the original game design by McAllister and crew - I take no credit myself).

Best regards,

- Kris
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:10 pm
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Kris Giesing
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peterb12 wrote:
GeoMan wrote:
Don't forget that there's also a free Java version:

http://colossus.sourceforge.net/



There's really no comparison whatsoever. While I'm glad that Colossus exists, it has nowhere near the level of polish of Titan VG for iPad.


I just had a rather distressing thought. Do people understand that the VG in the name stands for Valley Games, and not Video Game? "Titan Video Game Edition" would mean something completely different.

Note on the name: "Titan" was, of course, already taken (by someone who apparently registered and never published an app, because there doesn't seem to be an app actually posted to the store by that name). We considered "Titan for iPad" but on the App Store that's pretty redundant. So we narrowed it down to "Titan by Valley Games" and "Titan VG Edition", and it was kind of a coin flip between those two.

- Kris
 
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:17 pm
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kgiesing wrote:
If it were me running the app store, I would gladly refund your $8, but I don't think that's possible.

No, no, no — I wouldn't take it, even if it were offered.

I would only ever ask for a refund for a completely broken game, which Titan clearly is not. It looks gorgeous, and it plays very nicely. I've yet to even see a single bug report, too. The game looks and plays just fine ... it's just got a nearly vertical learning curve for newcomers.

But that's not an issue that should involve refunds. It mostly means I should have done more research before downloading.

That said, any improvements for helping us n00bs would be welcome. Slowing down the AI and providing an example of a full turn (see my note above) would be great places to start.
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:18 pm
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In the short term, a video guide/walkthrough on youtube would be very helpful for us noobs.

Very impressed so far. Keep up the good work.
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:22 pm
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CaptainCosmic wrote:
kgiesing wrote:
If it were me running the app store, I would gladly refund your $8, but I don't think that's possible.

No, no, no — I wouldn't take it, even if it were offered.

I would only ever ask for a refund for a completely broken game, which Titan clearly is not. It looks gorgeous, and it plays very nicely. I've yet to even see a single bug report, too. The game looks and plays just fine ... it's just got a nearly vertical learning curve for newcomers.

But that's not an issue that should involve refunds. It mostly means I should have done more research before downloading.

That said, any improvements for helping us n00bs would be welcome. Slowing down the AI and providing an example of a full turn (see my note above) would be great places to start.


I still say the easiest way for us n00bs to learn would be someone posting a video of playing the game on iPad and going over mosto of the game

I would rather see the developers working on mplayer than spending time working on a tutorial when it will only be viewed one or two times and never looked at again

Thx
jonpfl
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:24 pm
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Purchased last night and played several games. My newbie comments:

1. Tutorial video. Look at Neuroshima Hex as an example.
2. Make the game mechanics more transparent to the user. Right now it's very difficult to intuitively appreciate why things are happening, on the master board and in battles. Forcing me to memorize the lightning-speed movements of 5 AIs is a frustrating experience.
3. Zoom. The board is remarkably intricate. Take advantage of the iPad's gesture controls.

That being said, the game is fun! But if I am going to stick with it, these changes would have to be addressed.
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:50 pm
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+1 to zoom feature from ~30 year vet of Titan, and proud owner of app.
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:24 pm
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jonpfl wrote:
I still say the easiest way for us n00bs to learn would be someone posting a video of playing the game on iPad and going over mosto of the game

Gotta disagree ... or at least until some of these gameplay videos start getting a lot more professional. Three-quarters of the ones I've seen are borderline useless.

No, if I buy an app, I want the app to show me how to play. That doesn't sound like too much to ask. No logging on to a website, no horrible production quality ... just press the "tutorial" button. Many, many games already do this very well, but it seems as if there's been a trend lately of developers not including tutorials. It's weird.
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:25 pm
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I'd like the app to wipe my ass after I take a dump, too.
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:05 pm
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The Gray Dog Passes Go
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sleevan wrote:
I'd like the app to wipe my ass after I take a dump, too.

What an excellent contribution to the discussion.
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:27 pm
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The Don de Corazones
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There are trade-offs for everything. Assuming good underlying game, I'd rank my own priorities as:
1. Clean, elegant UI (no navigating through menus for a simple action, or constantly accidentally making the wrong move T&E 1.0 - I'm talking to you) - without this a good game can just be painful
2.async MP - games are much more fun with real humans, especially with chat functions to trash talk
3.Good AI - for those times when people are actually working, rare as that is these days

A tutorial is nice, but low on my list. If generations have learned to play a game and it has become a classic, I'll figure out how to play somehow. Just sayin.
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:42 pm
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Brian Jones
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CaptainCosmic wrote:
The full "Law of Titan" is included ... but it doesn't do a damn thing to help anyone actually play the game.


Sure it does, if you would bother to read the damn thing. Look, I understand where you are coming from, a tutorial is needed and these days is an expected part of game design.

But to say that the rules don't do a damn thing to help anyone is perhaps overdoing it a bit. I actually still read the rules to all my games, and I always read the rulebooks for video games as well (and actually miss them). Anyone else remember the old CRPG rulebooks?
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  • Posted Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:48 pm
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The Don de Corazones
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I love the old thick manuals and the huge strategy guides for games like MoM. Those were the days!
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:03 am
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bclayj wrote:
But to say that the rules don't do a damn thing to help anyone is perhaps overdoing it a bit.

I'll rephrase, then: it doesn't do a damn thing to help a newcomer to play the game.

Why? Because that person has likely moved on to other things after scrolling through page after page after page to learn about movement, mustering, combat, and on and on, and then finally realizing that he/she still doesn't really know what they're supposed to be doing (and the speed-of-light AI in Titan certainly doesn't help, either). There's too many great boardgame apps out there — most with tutorials/examples of play — to waste too much time trying to swim through an ocean of rules in tiny text.

It's all about the medium. This isn't like a game group getting together with a physical boardgame and the vets helping the n00bs to learn the rules. These are mobile games with a huge visual element that people are playing on their own. A tutorial is an absolute prerequisite for all but the simplest games.

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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:04 am
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To be fair, I'd be the first to agree that the app seems to be an absolute smash hit with veteran players. I've flitted around the web all day and I've yet to see a single legitimate complaint. Nor a bug report. And many are gushing over the presentation.

So VG deserves a lot of praise for that aspect of Titan.
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:12 am
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Dave Mansell
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kgiesing wrote:


The current thinking around the next update is to introduce online multiplayer. However, if we have missed the mark too badly with respect to new players, we can change that to shift more effort towards video intros, tutorials, or better tips.


Kris, I feel like a complex game like this should focus on bringing players unfamiliar to the game into the fold. To that end, I would like to voice a request that your next update focus on delivering a tutorial aimed at newcomers. Obviously you will (and should) do what you feel is best for your sales, so if that's online multiplayer, more power to you. I just wanted to take this opportunity to give my two cents, since my eight dollars are on hold for the time being.

Thank you for developing this game. I hope you have a lot of success, and I will gladly pay for your efforts as soon as a tutorial is added.
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:05 am
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I bought the game last night and I think it's great. $8 well spent.

Here's my feedback for what I would like to see next:

1. Multiplayer via Game Center. I would recommend against pbem or some other method (especially one requiring yet another account, like OpenFeint). Please do it right! Whatever you do, make it so you can chat with your opponent. Tigris and Euphrates came out recently. I love it, but their MP is a bit hindered by the fact that you can't seem to communicate with your opponent at all (at least I haven't seen a way to do it).

2. It would be nice to be able to show all possible move locations without having my finger on the stack. The current mechanic is a little bit of a pain since some of the possible hexes may be behind my finger. I have found that you can work around this by dragging the stack to the edge of the board. You can see all of the hexes and you can drag the stack to the hex you want when you are done.

3. When mustering it would be nice to see the tech tree at the same time as a reference. Other similar cross referencing features would be good (e.g. links during battles for better references as well).

Even without these improvements I think it's a great game. Good job! I am in the "played it a few times" crowd and easily recommend it to anyone else in the same demographic.
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:44 am
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Ryan Full
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CaptainCosmic wrote:

I'll rephrase, then: it doesn't do a damn thing to help a newcomer to play the game.

Why? Because that person has likely moved on to other things after scrolling through page after page after page to learn about movement, mustering, combat, and on and on, and then finally realizing that he/she still doesn't really know what they're supposed to be doing (and the speed-of-light AI in Titan certainly doesn't help, either). There's too many great boardgame apps out there — most with tutorials/examples of play — to waste too much time trying to swim through an ocean of rules in tiny text.

It's all about the medium. This isn't like a game group getting together with a physical boardgame and the vets helping the n00bs to learn the rules. These are mobile games with a huge visual element that people are playing on their own. A tutorial is an absolute prerequisite for all but the simplest games.



I feel like I am constantly quoting you to agree. I think we are just coming from a similar gaming background - but you are spot on.

I love board games. I love playing complex board games with friends when I feel like I am challenging my skills against theirs. However, I despise those learning games when someone is constantly saying, "Well one sec - let me check the rule book" *flip flip flip* That is why when I introduce a new game to my group I know it almost inside and out. When I am learning a brand new game I meet with a couple folks to specifically learn the games and we play through a few turns slowly talking through everything so we all could potentially teach it to the club as a whole.

Working with my friend gives me a feedback loop on what rule makes sense, other ways to look at it, what seems fair in the case of confusion etc. I make judgements and get feedback from someone.

With a video game the only feedback loop is through the AI (or even worse forcing me to only play against a human online who presumably knows the game). Seeing the AI taking a lightning fast turn and obliterate me gives me no useful info other than whatever I thought worked did not in fact work.

I'm also in video game mode. Playing on the iPad I probably have 5-10 minutes to take a few turns. With that little time I have a choice. I can read a rule book to a game and try to understand it. Bearing in mind, with the tabletop version I would have the board and pieces out and be moving them to model the situations described and make sense of everything whereas with a printed rulebook on the iPad I am simply reading text with no real concept or understanding. Or I can take a turn or play a round of the 20 other board games I have on my device.

I currently have 380 played games of Ascension. It is partially because it is so well done and so accessible and partially because it is absolutely perfect for engaging bite size gaming.

Now none of this is a knock on Titan. The game looks awesome and I would probably love it. But the first time I looked at the app on another device I couldn't make sense out of anything. Even reading the rulebook I had no concept for anything: Titans, angels, splitting stacks, choosing an icon. I didn't know what mattered and what was flavor text. I was reading the lingo without knowing what any of it actually meant.

And again, it is competing for my time with other games that can be extremely engaging (Ascension) to a mild diversion (Fruit Ninja) but will satisfy me with no effort for the 10 minutes I have to play.
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:42 am
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Matt Boehland
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I like it, though I'm still a newbie (I own but never played the board game). A question (that I have since figured out) and then my early (after 6 or 7 games) opinions:

Question:
What's the lightning bolt and star symbols on some counters, like the ranger? Its not the ranged attack (bow) symbol or flight (wings) symbol, and those are the only 2 symbols I saw defined anywhere. EDIT: Ah, the lightning bolt is the new symbol for ranged-capable, and star is the new symbol for flyers.

Scattered rambling and opinions:
I like the the battlemaps show what creatures are native, but I'm still trying to remember what each terrain does. At first thought, I thought it'd be nice if a quick summary was on the map (since each map usually only has 1 or 2 special types of land), but I guess until I memorize them, I can get by with just "if youre not native, stay out of that map's special terrain".

While at first it'd be kind of neat to see the hordes of dice being rolled, if I could only have one option, it'd be for them to resolve it the quick way that they do (when in doubt programming, just about any animation that gets used every attack gets tiresome after a while and the option to skip it is huge.. they just got rid of the slower option to begin with ^^ ).

1 and 2 star AIs are very weak even against beginners (like me), but of course I can't pass judgment until playing against more 3 star ones.

It's *great* that the program lets you know exactly where you'll be able to go and what you'll be able to muster there. Seems like this will be a *huge* help to speeding up multiplayer play. I have the physical boardgame, but that option alone make me think I'd almost rather just hook my ipad up to a tv to play with friends (unless we play it often enough that we start memorizing all that).

I had read the full rulebook from the boardgame anticipating this game's release, so I was mostly good on the rules, but I can see how a tutorial or sample turns would've been nice for others.. But if you're having a problem, it does have the exact same rulebook as the boardgmae included, and that answered every question I had other than the one I posted at the top of this post.

On a side note, I haven't had a very good experience with Valley Games in the past and am a little more hesistant recommending the full boardgame: they ignored my email asking for a replacement rulebook for Titan when my 'new' one's rulebook came stuck together (had to tear the sheets apart at the edges) and creased (and it sounds like many people had that problem and another problem with countersheet damage).. but I guess what I got is still better than paying the cost of the Avalon Hill one before VG reprinted it (or if anyone disagrees and thinks the Avalon Hill one is a better version, let me know why as I think I may start playing the boardgame more often thanks to the iOS one ^^).

Apologies for going a bit off topic there, but at any rate, when it comes to the iOS port (in particular I'm using an iPad 2) I am very happy with this release. It is a tough one to just 'figure out as you go', but if you're patient with learning the rules, I think it is one of the best boardgames on the iPad, with possibly weak AI being made up for by coming with local multiplayer immediately and online in the future.
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  • Edited Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:49 am
  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:01 am
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Kris Giesing
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Hi all,

Reading through the feedback on the thread, as well as the early reviews on the App Store, the need for better new-player learning tools is becoming pretty apparent.

My current thinking is that we create an explicit, narrated tutorial. We then not only include this in the paid version of the game, we also release it separately as a free app. In the description of the paid version, we strongly recommend downloading the free tutorial first for those who aren't sure if the game will suit their tastes.

Releasing it separately has advantages all around: players get to see how the game works before buying it, and we get a free marketing tool we can use to spread information about the game. If done well, it could even serve as a supplement to the physical board game, since new players could choose to run through the tutorial as others sort pieces, gather snacks, etc.

Thoughts?

- Kris
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:29 pm
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I think a tutorial would be a great thing to prioritize, though I could understand people who already own/know how to play wishing that online asynchronous multiplayer be of a greater priority.

Do let us know what you will be focusing a greater effort on for the first update.
 
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  • Edited Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:42 pm
  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:42 pm
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kgiesing wrote:
Hi all,

Reading through the feedback on the thread, as well as the early reviews on the App Store, the need for better new-player learning tools is becoming pretty apparent.

My current thinking is that we create an explicit, narrated tutorial. We then not only include this in the paid version of the game, we also release it separately as a free app. In the description of the paid version, we strongly recommend downloading the free tutorial first for those who aren't sure if the game will suit their tastes.

Releasing it separately has advantages all around: players get to see how the game works before buying it, and we get a free marketing tool we can use to spread information about the game. If done well, it could even serve as a supplement to the physical board game, since new players could choose to run through the tutorial as others sort pieces, gather snacks, etc.

Thoughts?

- Kris


I think it is a GREAT idea as I bought the game since I like to support boardgame to app conversions but have not had the time to sit down and figure it out yet.

If there was a narrated tutorial, that would be an awesome thing for us newbies

Thx
jonpfl
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:43 pm
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kgiesing wrote:
My current thinking is that we create an explicit, narrated tutorial.

This sounds great to me. I appreciate the push in this direction. Hopefully the players already enjoying the game don't mind waiting a little longer for online multiplayer.

As soon as I hear that the tutorial is available, you have my $8 (and likely a favorable review on iTunes.)
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:04 pm
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kgiesing wrote:
I'd be interested to hear if this system is sufficient (potentially with additional or more detailed tips) or if an explicit tutorial would be better.


Speaking as someone who's taught the game, I'd strongly encourage you to include a tutorial video that steps through the game for new players. Titan has more than a few quirks (like not being able to move a legion to a space that currently has a friendly legion, making sequence important) and timing rules (you can summon an angel/archangel into a fight, but only immediately after your first kill as the attacker) that just won't translate as well in the tips. Putting a link to a video that's prominently featured in the "Law of Titan" would be an incredibly good thing.

When I teach Titan FtF, I almost always do it by "playing" 3-5 turns with fixed die rolls so that I can cover that type of stuff, then wrap up with the big things like Titan Teleportation that change the game. That screams "give 'em a video" for an app.

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We also have plans to create more linkages between the main UI and reference material in-context: for example, long touch on a Hazard to bring up reference information on that Hazard, and similarly for Terrain information on the Masterboard.


That would be very good as well, but will be more useful to players once they've got the basic mechanics down.
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:11 pm
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Ken
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kgiesing wrote:
My current thinking is that we create an explicit, narrated tutorial. We then not only include this in the paid version of the game, we also release it separately as a free app. In the description of the paid version, we strongly recommend downloading the free tutorial first for those who aren't sure if the game will suit their tastes.


YouTube could save you the trouble of two different apps. I'd only make a second app if you're also going to make it a functional demo - say limit the game to 15-20 turns of play or don't allow recruitment beyond 2 levels (gets you to rangers/gorgons/behemoths/etc, but doesn't let you get the big boys).

But if it's "only" going to be a tutorial video/walkthrough then YouTube it and link to the video very early in the description on the app store.
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:25 pm
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Kris Giesing
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Wilikai wrote:
kgiesing wrote:
My current thinking is that we create an explicit, narrated tutorial.

This sounds great to me. I appreciate the push in this direction. Hopefully the players already enjoying the game don't mind waiting a little longer for online multiplayer.

As soon as I hear that the tutorial is available, you have my $8 (and likely a favorable review on iTunes.)


One reason to shift the focus a little bit is that online multiplayer is looking like a more serious investment than a tutorial. If we did simple Game Center integration, it wouldn't be too hard, but it's not entirely clear that the Game Center model is right for Titan - among other things it doesn't offer a solution for our eventual Android implementation.

So looking at the sequencing alternatives, it seems better to hold off online multiplayer slightly, than to hold off a tutorial for a significant amount of time.

I sketched out a basic tutorial this morning, which took about 8 minutes to narrate. I'm not sure if I could make it shorter without glossing over too much of the game.

- Kris
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:27 pm
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I will chime in on some of the comments on multiplayer. I'd love to see Game Center support for live online play first, PBEM-like play second. With the number of "interrupts" that go on in the game, PBEM strikes me as being a "nice to have" but less than brilliant for a large number of live players. There are so many decisions that can drag the game down (fight or flee? Summon an angel? Recruit during the fight?) that PBEM with inexperienced players could be brutally long between player turns. Just bouncing back & forth for the different phases in combat alone could take forever.

It'd also be brilliant if you could somehow support tournaments & ladders. Which, of course, contradicts the above because it screams for PBEM play since arranging ladder play if it's "live only" would be pretty difficult. But I'd certainly love the chance to face off against players that I know are quite good to see how I stack up.
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:31 pm
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kgiesing wrote:
Wilikai wrote:
kgiesing wrote:
My current thinking is that we create an explicit, narrated tutorial.

This sounds great to me. I appreciate the push in this direction. Hopefully the players already enjoying the game don't mind waiting a little longer for online multiplayer.

As soon as I hear that the tutorial is available, you have my $8 (and likely a favorable review on iTunes.)


One reason to shift the focus a little bit is that online multiplayer is looking like a more serious investment than a tutorial. If we did simple Game Center integration, it wouldn't be too hard, but it's not entirely clear that the Game Center model is right for Titan - among other things it doesn't offer a solution for our eventual Android implementation.

So looking at the sequencing alternatives, it seems better to hold off online multiplayer slightly, than to hold off a tutorial for a significant amount of time.

I sketched out a basic tutorial this morning, which took about 8 minutes to narrate. I'm not sure if I could make it shorter without glossing over too much of the game.

- Kris


Any chance you could put it on youtube so us newbies can get an idea how to play for the xmas weekend? :-)

Thx
jonpfl
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:06 pm
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Nadine Deymann
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I'm very interested in Titan since i knew that it comes to iOS, i didn't know the Game before, but then i had a Look at colossus, it had also no tutorial, but learning by doing helped more, i think, than a tutorial. The tip impletation might be the better Way to get into the game.
I will buy it tomorrow, because i get an itunes gift.
Happy Christmas to all.
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:08 pm
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Dave Howe
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Kris,

Good idea about the stand-along tutorial, if developing this as a separate app, it would be faster to produce than a reworking of the Titan app. Ideally, this should be included as part of the whole app, so that people can reference it as needed, without having to quit the Titan app.

For a stand-along tutorial app, Bohnanza did a similar thing, which helped to introduce people to the game, and allowed them to play a game against AI as well. And yes, I'm sure it will help as a marketing tool as well.


Dave
 
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  • Edited Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:22 pm
  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:21 pm
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Kris Giesing
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jonpfl wrote:
kgiesing wrote:
I sketched out a basic tutorial this morning, which took about 8 minutes to narrate. I'm not sure if I could make it shorter without glossing over too much of the game.

- Kris


Any chance you could put it on youtube so us newbies can get an idea how to play for the xmas weekend? :-)

Thx
jonpfl


I knew that comment would get me in trouble...

All I did was write down the text I thought was required, and read it back to myself while timing it. I haven't actually done any of the programming yet (and it does need to be programmed, not just "filmed", because the gameplay elements have to be revealed in a specific order). I honestly don't know how long that will take me so I don't want to make any promises.

- Kris
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:58 pm
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Andy Van Zandt
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The title reminded me of the old flash "Windows RG edition" thing- though I'm sure that's not the parallel they were intending to draw
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:10 pm
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Kris,

Kudos for being active on this thread. However, trying to meet every demand of BGG users may quickly drive you insane.

I have paid the $8.49 Australian and downloaded your game simply due to the fact that you have decided to invest significant time and resources into releasing and supporting a more traditional heavier board game on the iPad for less than the cost of two cups of coffee.

Ok - maybe you were insane to begin with
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  • Posted Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:08 pm
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FranklinTV wrote:
Kris,

Kudos for being active on this thread. However, trying to meet every demand of BGG users may quickly drive you insane.

I have paid the $8.49 Australian and downloaded your game simply due to the fact that you have decided to invest significant time and resources into releasing and supporting a more traditional heavier board game on the iPad for less than the cost of two cups of coffee.

Ok - maybe you were insane to begin with


Well put. VG obviously cared about the product and the rough patches will be smoothed over eventually. Which is why you should put the app on sale for 50% right now and reward early adopters!
 
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  • Posted Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:58 am
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Dr. Awkward
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kgiesing wrote:
Wilikai wrote:
kgiesing wrote:
My current thinking is that we create an explicit, narrated tutorial.

This sounds great to me. I appreciate the push in this direction. Hopefully the players already enjoying the game don't mind waiting a little longer for online multiplayer.

As soon as I hear that the tutorial is available, you have my $8 (and likely a favorable review on iTunes.)


One reason to shift the focus a little bit is that online multiplayer is looking like a more serious investment than a tutorial. If we did simple Game Center integration, it wouldn't be too hard, but it's not entirely clear that the Game Center model is right for Titan - among other things it doesn't offer a solution for our eventual Android implementation.

So looking at the sequencing alternatives, it seems better to hold off online multiplayer slightly, than to hold off a tutorial for a significant amount of time.

I sketched out a basic tutorial this morning, which took about 8 minutes to narrate. I'm not sure if I could make it shorter without glossing over too much of the game.

- Kris


Really not a fan of non-Game Center multiplayer. It's a real pain when every developer has their own solution, and then you have 27 different sets of user ids, passwords, and friends. PLEASE USE GAME CENTER!
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  • Posted Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:02 am
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Martin
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kgiesing wrote:
our eventual Android implementation


Those are very happy words!
 
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  • Posted Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:30 am
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Kris Giesing
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p0pcult wrote:
Really not a fan of non-Game Center multiplayer. It's a real pain when every developer has their own solution, and then you have 27 different sets of user ids, passwords, and friends. PLEASE USE GAME CENTER!


Any solution we implement will support links to existing accounts, such as Game Center, and not force people to create new usernames and passwords from scratch. Non-GC account types would be supported through Open ID (Facebook, Gmail, Yahoo, etc).

Out of curiosity, how do you typically engage in multiplayer through Game Center? I myself have not had much luck with it, because I don't have an established friend base*, and the random match feature of Game Center seems to involve long waits with little feedback.

One of the things I would prefer to have in an online multiplayer environment is social interaction like chat in between games. Servers like IGS (the Internet Go Server) support this. There are huge issues with trying to do something like that, though, not least of which is moderating poor behavior.

So it's a little unclear to me what the best way is to serve the Titan community. Stock Game Center may well be the best "bang for the buck", at least in the short term. I'll try to keep everyone informed as our plans mature.

In the meantime the tutorial serves a pretty clear purpose and should be a fairly straightforward process to implement (though again, I don't have a firm estimate on when it would be available).

I will probably go quiet on this thread for a little while as family obligations for the holidays are upcoming. I do want to thank everyone for the feedback they've given, both positive and negative - it really helps us to understand how to improve the game.

Best,

- Kris

* A significant number of my gaming friends don't own iPads, so we haven't really made an effort to network through Game Center. Titan will probably be the first strong reason we have to try to connect for online multiplayer in whatever form.
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  • Posted Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:46 am
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Peter B
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The gold standard for multiplayer on iOS devices is "play a turn, quit the app, and then when you opponent plays his turn, you get a notification." This means that you don't really need a 'live' chat server, just a message stream. See how the Carcassonne app does it, for instance, or Words With Friends. Titan has so much downtime that I can't imagine people really imagine most people wanting to stay in the app and kibbitz.

Regarding online play and your Android port, the one thing I would caution you about is restricting one platform's features based on the limitations of the other platform (in either direction). That way lies apps that suck (and you can see examples within the past week discussed here on BGG). Just treat them as two separate products with separate codebases, and be done with it.
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  • Posted Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:06 pm
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Quick reply...

I've set up a poll on the Facebook page to try to gauge expectations for multiplayer.

www.facebook.com/titanforipad

Happy holidays everyone, and I'll be back in touch sometime next week.

Best,

- Kris
 
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  • Posted Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:26 pm
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Shawn Woods
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I always wanted to play this boardgame. I would highly consider buying it... but I only have an Android tablet.
 
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  • Posted Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:16 pm
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James Ludlow
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GeoMan wrote:
Don't forget that there's also a free Java version:

http://colossus.sourceforge.net/


How is this remotely relevant in a thread about iOS gaming?

 
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  • Posted Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:59 pm
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Michael Black
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All other board game app developers can just quit now. Just kidding.


titan is ranked 309 or something like that so there are many, many more games to be made.

Also, $7.99? No. Feel free to try again though.
 
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  • Posted Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:12 pm
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Michael Black
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"Titan HD" would have worked.

kgiesing wrote:
"Titan" was, of course, already taken
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  • Posted Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:26 pm
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Rob Doupe
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CaptainCosmic wrote:


3. The rulebook. But this isn't a printed game, where the players will have to read the full rules. This is a visual and mobile platform we're talking about. It's different. And this is where Titan fumbled, big-time, at least if the developer ever hopes to attract any newcomers. The full "Law of Titan" is included ... but it doesn't do a damn thing to help anyone actually play the game.


I'm curious why you're less willing to read a rulebook when playing a videogame, than playing a boardgame. It's not as though reading text isn't a primary function of tablets. So many people enjoy reading on tablets, in fact, that the publishing industry is worried dead tree books are on their way out.

Personally, I find it disappointing that videogames these days don't come with hard copy manuals. For example, I've had a lot of frustration playing Skyrim and coming across situations where I had refer to a online wiki to figure out what I need to do (who knew you could use torches? And how the heck am I supposed to figure out alchemy on my own?). I find it way easier to have a comprehensive printed manual I can peruse while I'm eating breakfast.

So in short, I don't see why the medium changes the way I want to learn the rules. I like to learn how to play a game up-front, before I start.

But maybe videogames attract more people who flat-out dislike reading.
 
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  • Posted Mon Dec 26, 2011 4:41 pm
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Jason Miller
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ptdnet wrote:
Quote:
All other board game app developers can just quit now. Just kidding.


titan is ranked 309 or something like that so there are many, many more games to be made.

Also, $7.99? No. Feel free to try again though.


I don't have an iPad, but from what I hear on this thread, $8 sounds like a great price for this game. Have you tried it, or seen it in play?
 
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  • Posted Mon Dec 26, 2011 5:41 pm
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Commander Shran


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I have been in the beta testing and I think that $8 is very reasonable for the game.

As far as the new players are concerned, I would recommend that you just "slug it out" with the one star AI players. Play against one or two of them. I first started playing Titan when the Avalon Hill pink box was released. I was about 12 years old and played at the on base rec club with my Dad and a bunch of airmen. Getting obliterated is how you learn. Thirty years later, I now enjoy obliterating others.

The AI does seem a little gung-ho, but that's ok. It will teach you to play defensive. Most of my games are over within 30-50 turns because it ends up jumping me with its Titan. I had gotten used to being lazy because I play with my kids most of the time now and just go through the motions most of the time. Multi-player should be interesting.

@Kris, thanks for all of your hard work on this.
 
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  • Edited Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:38 pm
  • Posted Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:34 pm
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The Gray Dog Passes Go
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Rob Doupe wrote:
I'm curious why you're less willing to read a rulebook when playing a videogame, than playing a boardgame.

Because it's not taking advantage of the medium. I learned how to play Ascension and Neuroshima Hex on iOS within minutes, for instance, just because the tutorials were so good. I was able to set aside the rules, knowing they would be there later to help with trickier situations (Ascension's tie-breaker rule, as an example).

Then, just playing those games essentially taught me the rules. Again, it helps that both of these games have such good iOS versions. But I was able to become an expert-level player in both with hardly a glance at the actual rulebooks. That is taking advantage of the medium; that's two developers smart enough to know that physical games and digital games are two different beasties.

Rob Doupe wrote:
It's not as though reading text isn't a primary function of tablets.

Apples and oranges. It is enjoyable to read a professionally-produced book on the iPad; it is much less so to slog through some iOS rulebooks, which are clearly an afterthought the developer wishes it could avoid. And when I see that the Titan rules include things like "dice rolling into ashtrays," I realize that the developer has put zero effort into converting its rulebook to an iOS format. If they can't be bothered to try, why should I?

I'd also argue about reading being a "primary function" for tablets. On a Kindle, sure ... on the iPad, I'm much less convinced. The iPad is such a good movie-player, game-player, comics-reader, web-surfer, has so many other interesting non-gaming apps, etc., etc., that I'm not sure I'd list "reading" with it as a high priority for most users. It is for me, personally, but every time I've checked out another person's iPad, they've either had very few books or none at all.

Rob Doupe wrote:
But maybe videogames attract more people who flat-out dislike reading.

Lawl! I can't speak for anyone else, but if that was shot at me, you're dead wrong. With the exception of a former college roommate, I read more than any other person I've ever met.

 
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  • Posted Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:39 pm
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Bad time for my wife to acquire an iPad. Also the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
 
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  • Posted Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:54 pm
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Could anyone tell me how to summon an angel. I get the icon when it is possible to summon an angel, tap it, get the main map, select a legion with an angel, select the angel, tap done. From there it doesn't do anything to return to the battleground map. When I hit "main", it slides the battleground map back over but I am without the angel.

Thanks!
Todd
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  • Posted Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:04 pm
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Jon Quinn
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toddwag wrote:
Could anyone tell me how to summon an angel. I get the icon when it is possible to summon an angel, tap it, get the main map, select a legion with an angel, select the angel, tap done. From there it doesn't do anything to return to the battleground map. When I hit "main", it slides the battleground map back over but I am without the angel.

Thanks!
Todd


That happened to me once too. But I have also successfully summoned angels as well, and have no idea what I did differently when it worked. I have not played enough games yet to really investigate and make sure I did not just leave out a step when the summoning failed.
 
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  • Posted Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:51 pm
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Dr. Awkward
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CaptainCosmic wrote:

Rob Doupe wrote:
But maybe videogames attract more people who flat-out dislike reading.

Lawl! I can't speak for anyone else, but if that was shot at me, you're dead wrong. With the exception of a former college roommate, I read more than any other person I've ever met.



Anecdotal evidence: the gold standard in online argumentation!
 
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  • Posted Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:38 pm
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Rob Doupe wrote:
[q="CaptainCosmic"]

3. The rulebook. But this isn't a printed game, where the players will have to read the full rules. This is a visual and mobile platform we're talking about. It's different. And this is where Titan fumbled, big-time, at least if the developer ever hopes to attract any newcomers. The full "Law of Titan" is included ... but it doesn't do a damn thing to help anyone actually play the game.

Rob Doupe wrote:
I'm curious why you're less willing to read a rulebook when playing a videogame, than playing a boardgame. It's not as though reading text isn't a primary function of tablets. So many people enjoy reading on tablets, in fact, that the publishing industry is worried dead tree books are on their way out.


Having interacgtive demos of how to play the game nd use it's interface is often easier than reading a rulebook.

For example, if someone's teaching a group how to play Carcassonne, that person can just read out of the rulebook like a teacher or professor, but by actually drawing tiles out of tlthe bag, pointing out what the features look like, how they match/examples of where they doN'T match, and scoring examples (especially farms) has made things easier for people to learn and pick up mechanics.


Rob Doupe wrote:
Personally, I find it disappointing that videogames these days don't come with hard copy manuals. For example, I've had a lot of frustration playing Skyrim and coming across situations where I had refer to a online wiki to figure out what I need to do (who knew you could use torches? And how the heck am I supposed to figure out alchemy on my own?). I find it way easier to have a comprehensive printed manual I can peruse while I'm eating breakfast.
I liked having manuals in video games too. For me, they were everyu much a collectible and "functional" as the video game itself. However,;I'd gander that people weren't bothering with them. For the vid game manufacturers, they could stand to save the $$ then I suppose.

Rob Doupe wrote:
So in short, I don't see why the medium changes the way I want to learn the rules. I like to learn how to play a game up-front, before I start.

But maybe videogames attract more people who flat-out dislike reading.
Well, of course it's impractical to include a physical manual with a good that's completely digital.
 
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  • Posted Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:34 pm
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p0pcult wrote:
Anecdotal evidence: the gold standard in online argumentation!

Adding nothing to the conversation: both lame and lazy.
 
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  • Posted Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:23 am
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No Gard


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ackmondual wrote:


For example, if someone's teaching a group how to play Carcassonne, that person can just read out of the rulebook like a teacher or professor,...


Good teacher/professor never just read out of the book!
 
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  • Posted Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:01 am
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I just finished my 10th-ish game, and while a tutorial would've been nice, I don't feel it is all that necessary to jump into this app. FWIW...

I'm not a new gamer by any stretch, but the app was my first time playing Titan. The tips system I found to be enough, with out being intrusive, and I can look up additional rules or get clarifications by hitting the Rules button mid-game. I won my third game, maybe through luck, but with all the other losses, I was able to hit 'Continue' and watch the AI slug it out. I've been picking up pointers this way through observation - much like how I learned plenty about Warhammer by quietly observing more experienced players.

By looking at it, you know it's not Candy Land. I think that as a new player, you need to know that there is a learning curve, and some patience is needed at the beginning...unless you are recklessly bum-rushed by a Titan stack (as was observed in an earlier post).

As for the price, I think it is fair and worth every cent. I have purchased many $0.99 disposable apps, and they don't satisfy like this title does. I also don't mind giving my money for the app because I will probably never by the physical game, due to the fact the no one in my gaming circles has ever had interest in it. I am happy that I can finally learn and play Titan, even if it is only in app form.
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  • Posted Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:29 am
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kgiesing wrote:
Hi all,

I'm very pleased that we were able to release the game in time for Christmas.

I know the game is not perfect; if we'd tried to make it perfect before releasing, it wouldn't be out until sometime next year (assuming you think "perfect" is even achievable ). I'm very interested to hear feedback on how to improve gameplay, particularly for new players, who I hope will find the game more approachable in this form.

There are multiple ways to give feedback. iTunes App Store reviews will be the most visible, accessible to all players. Feedback on BoardGameGeek might be easier for us to miss, but of course the BGG community is a valuable resource and we'll try to monitor discussions here as well as we can. Finally, there is a feedback link in-game (in the About or Info panel accessible from the main screen) which you can use to send us direct emails.

I hope you enjoy the game, and I look forward to making it even better with your help!

Thanks,

- Kris


Kris,

just bought TITAN last night from the App Store, but for some reason it is not running on my iPad (version 3.2.2). This is annoying enough, as you can easily undestand, but what is really bad is that there is no client support whatsoever! I don't think this is acceptable for an app as expensive as TITAN. Please try to fix the issue ASAP.
Thanks.

Burnt
 
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  • Posted Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:41 am
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BurntNorton wrote:

Kris,

just bought TITAN last night from the App Store, but for some reason it is not running on my iPad (version 3.2.2). This is annoying enough, as you can easily undestand, but what is really bad is that there is no client support whatsoever! I don't think this is acceptable for an app as expensive as TITAN. Please try to fix the issue ASAP.
Thanks.

Burnt


Hi Burnt,

The fact that the application can be installed on iOS 3.2 is a mistake in our application distribution. The audio system that we use only became available in iOS 4 and later.

Is there a reason not to upgrade to iOS 4? The industry metrics I've seen seem to indicate there are very few iPad users who are still on iOS 3.x.

You're right that the support route for Titan isn't complete yet. There is a feedback link from within the app but of course that doesn't help if you can't launch the app... Valley Games needs to update their website to include a page specifically for Titan support, which includes the official email address for support:

titan-support@dauba-dauba.net

I'll talk to the Valley Games people tomorrow to straighten this part out.

Best regards,

- Kris
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  • Posted Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:06 am
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Burnt Norton


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kgiesing wrote:
BurntNorton wrote:

Kris,

just bought TITAN last night from the App Store, but for some reason it is not running on my iPad (version 3.2.2). This is annoying enough, as you can easily undestand, but what is really bad is that there is no client support whatsoever! I don't think this is acceptable for an app as expensive as TITAN. Please try to fix the issue ASAP.
Thanks.

Burnt


Hi Burnt,

The fact that the application can be installed on iOS 3.2 is a mistake in our application distribution. The audio system that we use only became available in iOS 4 and later.

Is there a reason not to upgrade to iOS 4? The industry metrics I've seen seem to indicate there are very few iPad users who are still on iOS 3.x.

You're right that the support route for Titan isn't complete yet. There is a feedback link from within the app but of course that doesn't help if you can't launch the app... Valley Games needs to update their website to include a page specifically for Titan support, which includes the official email address for support:

titan-support@dauba-dauba.net

I'll talk to the Valley Games people tomorrow to straighten this part out.

Best regards,

- Kris


Kris, thank you for your prompt reply. I had the suspicion that the problem was the iOS system, and I will try to update to iOS 4. In any case, I think that the mistake made by the distributor must be immediately addressed, and that the final responsibility in case of misleading information should fall on the developers, who must check this kind of things. I hope I can sort out the problem on my own, otherwise I will go directly to Valley Games.

Thanks for your cooperation and my best whishes for a Happy New Year's Eve.

Regards,

Burnt
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:01 am
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Jim bo
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Firstly congratulations on a very good implementation of the board game. In answer to your questions here's my take:

kgiesing wrote:
Out of curiosity, how do you typically engage in multiplayer through Game Center? I myself have not had much luck with it, because I don't have an established friend base*, and the random match feature of Game Center seems to involve long waits with little feedback.

I tend to play a mixture. I haven't had many issues with the random match feature but then again I normally expect that they will be played as async games. If I want to play a real time game then I'll pre arrange that with an established friend because I can't assume a random player has an hour or so spare right now to play real time.

kgiesing wrote:
One of the things I would prefer to have in an online multiplayer environment is social interaction like chat in between games. Servers like IGS (the Internet Go Server) support this. There are huge issues with trying to do something like that, though, not least of which is moderating poor behavior.

In game chat is a must for online muliplayer.

Codito made the mistake of lauching their Tigris & Euphrates online version without the chat feature and players were quick to point this out as a big gap. They too were concerned about the issues around moderating poor behavior but I and many players feel this is a very minor issue when it comes to board gamers who tend to be a more mature audience.

Also if the majority of games are with friends then this becomes a non issue. It's certainly a non issue with Coding Monkey's Carcassonne.

kgiesing wrote:
So it's a little unclear to me what the best way is to serve the Titan community. Stock Game Center may well be the best "bang for the buck", at least in the short term. I'll try to keep everyone informed as our plans mature.

Game Center would be the natural starting point but I would suggest looking closely at how Carcassonne handles multiplayer as they have it pretty much spot on. In game chat, last moves displayed, quick play real time game mode vs async game mode, push notifications, ELO ratings.

Regarding general feedback I agree with other posters in this thread so without restating the details I'll just bullet point them, in no particular order:

- Tutorial
- Pinch zoom
- Options to set speed of AI move playback
- Options to toggle show opponent legion marker / last muster
- Change tactical battle orientation so player's forces enter at the bottom
- Improve tactical AI. Strategic is generally ok but during a tactical battle the AI will expose his Titan to uncessary risks which can spoil a game. I see this a quite a serious issue for single player.
- Allow any number of AI players at each level rather than having an arbitrary 2 AI player maximum.
- Option to toggle single tap on a legion to highlight possible moves then second tap on a space to move rather than hold and drag.

One last request that I'm not sure has been mentioned. I'd like to see more help features available which would be especially useful for inexperienced players.

For example, tapping on land space on the game board would bring up a cut down version of the muster chart so players can quickly see which creatures can be mustered and are native to that land type rather than having to consult the full muster chart.

Tapping on a hex on a battleboard to bring up the terrain information for that terrain type as another example.

Essentially having the full rules and info sheets is good but they aren't always available (in the middle of a tactical battle for example) and getting stripped down information specific to the item you're enquiring on makes the UI more intuitive which gives the game a more polished feel.

Lastly appreciate the developer interaction on these forums. Great work!
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  • Posted Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:58 am
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Kris Giesing
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BurntNorton wrote:

Kris, thank you for your prompt reply. I had the suspicion that the problem was the iOS system, and I will try to update to iOS 4. In any case, I think that the mistake made by the distributor must be immediately addressed, and that the final responsibility in case of misleading information should fall on the developers, who must check this kind of things. I hope I can sort out the problem on my own, otherwise I will go directly to Valley Games.

Thanks for your cooperation and my best whishes for a Happy New Year's Eve.

Regards,

Burnt


Hi Burnt,

Yes, you are spot on that these issues are the developers' responsibility. The application distribution issue is a mistake in our application configuration, so also our responsibility. I'll be working to correct these issues ASAP.

Best regards,

- Kris
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:45 pm
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Kris Giesing
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Yojimbo252 wrote:
Regarding general feedback...


Thanks for the thoughts! I'm tracking these for prioritizing into our upcoming releases.

Best,

- Kris
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:47 pm
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Willard Zelvis
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toddwag wrote:
Could anyone tell me how to summon an angel. I get the icon when it is possible to summon an angel, tap it, get the main map, select a legion with an angel, select the angel, tap done. From there it doesn't do anything to return to the battleground map. When I hit "main", it slides the battleground map back over but I am without the angel.

Thanks!
Todd


This has been happening to me too, consistently.
 
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  • Posted Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:25 am
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Kris Giesing
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SpaceGhost wrote:
toddwag wrote:
Could anyone tell me how to summon an angel. I get the icon when it is possible to summon an angel, tap it, get the main map, select a legion with an angel, select the angel, tap done. From there it doesn't do anything to return to the battleground map. When I hit "main", it slides the battleground map back over but I am without the angel.

Thanks!
Todd


This has been happening to me too, consistently.


When you hit "done", does the dialog disappear or stay on screen? If it disappears, is it possible to tap the angel's legion again to re-try the summons?

It might be helpful, once someone is in this state, to send us feedback via the "Send Feedback" link in the Info dialog on the main screen. The feedback will automatically include the game-state for the current game in progress (if any). That might help us track this down.

Thanks,

- Kris
 
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  • Posted Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:01 am
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Kris Giesing
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kgiesing wrote:
SpaceGhost wrote:
toddwag wrote:
Could anyone tell me how to summon an angel. I get the icon when it is possible to summon an angel, tap it, get the main map, select a legion with an angel, select the angel, tap done. From there it doesn't do anything to return to the battleground map. When I hit "main", it slides the battleground map back over but I am without the angel.

Thanks!
Todd


This has been happening to me too, consistently.


When you hit "done", does the dialog disappear or stay on screen? If it disappears, is it possible to tap the angel's legion again to re-try the summons?

It might be helpful, once someone is in this state, to send us feedback via the "Send Feedback" link in the Info dialog on the main screen. The feedback will automatically include the game-state for the current game in progress (if any). That might help us track this down.

Thanks,

- Kris


Actually, I think I've identified the problem (ironically, perhaps, it was preventing the tutorial from working correctly).

I honestly don't know why this behavior is nondeterministic - it seems like it should either succeed for all cases, or fail for all cases (depending on how event ordering is defined to occur). But our specific summons tests are passing while the tutorial was failing before I coded a fix.

Anyway, thanks to everyone for surfacing this issue. The fix will be included in the next patch release of Titan.

Best,

- Kris
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  • Posted Sun Jan 1, 2012 2:52 am
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Martin Gallo
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Have played four games now, and only won one of them.

So far the bugs I have seen are:

Several battles where 2 Ogres beat three Centaurs every time - usually with only one or two hits on the Ogres (there have been too many strings of 'bad luck' to count).

I have also lost a Legion (of 5 creatures) to a Legion (of 4 creatures) without being given an option to fight (I did not know there was an Ambush option!).

I have won two fight initiated by the AI that then refuses to fight. The first was 5 AI cyclops against my titan and an Angel. The second was an AI Titan and some others against my lone Titan (although in defense of the AI in the second example the AI did attack my Titan on the last round of the battle, but with its Titan and only one of its four creatures). That is an obvious AI bug.

I occasionally not make a Rangestrike, despite having the ability in the battle. Very frustrating to line up two Warlocks against an Angel two hexes away and not be able to Rangestrike!

I have seen an enemy Legion split into a 5 and a two and then have the size 5 Legion Recruit back to 7.

Other than that I like the game. I do have some UI feedback, of course.

I have lost my Legions in the colors of the map and other Legions. Would it be possible to brighten the colors or 'pulse' the active player's Legions? Maybe making the quantity badge red for Legions that still have something to do (move/recruit) as well as having to do something (split)? I 'lose' the current blue/green border scheme.

I would like the option of tapping my Legions to see all their movement options. The current method of holding a finger on them obscures the map.

It would be nice to have an easy reference to which lands muster which creatures. The current 'Beasts' reference is useful but does not summarize which terrain muster which creatures. I am talking about adding the same information in a different presentation, similar to how the boardgame handles it. The Beasts reference IS useful but sometimes it is nice to be able to see the data in different forms.

Is there a way to leave the dice 'on the table' so the player can see what was actually rolled? There have been a couple of situations when things actually happened too fast to follow how it happened. Note that I really like the speed of the AI in most circumstances. In fact I am mostly very impressed with the game!

I would like to see a countdown counter on the funny little icon thingy on the left of the player activity box. This would help an old guy like me know whether all of my Legions have acted.

There is an inconsistency in how the various actions are displayed (The 'next box' appears automatically when Recruiting but not when splitting, for example). It is 'easy' to lose track of who is doing what.
 
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  • Posted Mon Jan 2, 2012 3:55 am
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Kris Giesing
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Thanks for the feedback!

With respect to the bugs, it would be very helpful to send us the game-state with a bug report at the point where it happens. You can do this by returning to the main screen, then using the "Send Feedback" link in the Info screen. This will pop up an email control with the current game-state already included.

Best,

- Kris
 
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  • Posted Mon Jan 2, 2012 5:53 am
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Brian Williams
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I have played this game several times now. Although familiarity is making things a little better, I still find myself squinting (or using a magnifying glass) to identify units, legion markers and map areas (they are the easiest being colour coded). Not being able to zoom in is a bad oversight. My failing eyesight is a real annoyance when trying to play. I have fewer problems with other converted board games.

I have just tried to split a legion into three, but I can't see how. Is there a way?

I am sure I would love this implementation if only I could see what I was doing.

 
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  • Posted Mon Jan 2, 2012 4:55 pm
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Kris Giesing
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seacook wrote:
I have played this game several times now. Although familiarity is making things a little better, I still find myself squinting (or using a magnifying glass) to identify units, legion markers and map areas (they are the easiest being colour coded). Not being able to zoom in is a bad oversight. My failing eyesight is a real annoyance when trying to play. I have fewer problems with other converted board games.

I have just tried to split a legion into three, but I can't see how. Is there a way?

I am sure I would love this implementation if only I could see what I was doing.



Hi Brian,

Zooming on the Masterboard has been a very common request and we'll be implementing it soon. The bottleneck there is actually not so much the zoom feature itself, but preparing the graphics at a higher resolution so that zooming will be useful. I foolishly did the original graphics treatment at the resolution you see. (I do have the original boardgame art at very high resolution, but there's more to it than that... Long story.)

There's currently no way to do a three-way split. Is there a compelling reason to add that? This is one of the two board-game features that we deliberately dropped from the iPad implementation (the other is negotiation). When I went to WBC I talked to players there about these two features, and it seemed that there were so few cases where they mattered that our time would be better spent elsewhere.

Best,

- Kris
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  • Posted Mon Jan 2, 2012 7:18 pm
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Brian Williams
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kgiesing wrote:
seacook wrote:
I have played this game several times now. Although familiarity is making things a little better, I still find myself squinting (or using a magnifying glass) to identify units, legion markers and map areas (they are the easiest being colour coded). Not being able to zoom in is a bad oversight. My failing eyesight is a real annoyance when trying to play. I have fewer problems with other converted board games.

I have just tried to split a legion into three, but I can't see how. Is there a way?

I am sure I would love this implementation if only I could see what I was doing.



Hi Brian,

Zooming on the Masterboard has been a very common request and we'll be implementing it soon. The bottleneck there is actually not so much the zoom feature itself, but preparing the graphics at a higher resolution so that zooming will be useful. I foolishly did the original graphics treatment at the resolution you see. (I do have the original boardgame art at very high resolution, but there's more to it than that... Long story.)

There's currently no way to do a three-way split. Is there a compelling reason to add that? This is one of the two board-game features that we deliberately dropped from the iPad implementation (the other is negotiation). When I went to WBC I talked to players there about these two features, and it seemed that there were so few cases where they mattered that our time would be better spent elsewhere.

Best,

- Kris


That's good news Kris.

The three-way split is in the rules, which is why I asked - it's usually not the brightest thing to do. Perhaps you might alter the text of the Law of Titan to make it explicit.

Thanks,

Brian
 
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  • Posted Mon Jan 2, 2012 7:48 pm
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Anyone knows if it will be available for Iphone?

Thanks,
 
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  • Posted Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:41 am
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Kris Giesing
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Akeold wrote:
Anyone knows if it will be available for Iphone?

Thanks,


Titan has a very complex board. Even with zooming and the other visibility improvements we're planning to make, I'm somewhat skeptical that the game can be played effectively on iPhone screen sizes. So Android tablet and desktop support are currently higher priorities.

- Kris
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  • Posted Tue Jan 3, 2012 9:06 am
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Jim bo
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I can appreciate those being higher priorities than making the app Universal for the iPhone but with zooming I feel it would still be playable.

If I can use Battle for Wesnoth as an example, that was one of the first strategy games ported to the iPhone which can have very large map sizes and that has been very well received.

If players enjoy the game enough (and there's no reason why your version of Titan wouldn't fall into that category, especially with the inclusion of multiplayer) they will be prepared to scroll and zoom and accept the shortcomings of a smaller screen.

Being able to play (albeit on a small screen) is better than not being able to play at all.
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  • Posted Tue Jan 3, 2012 10:09 am
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Kris Giesing
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Hi all,

Quick note that we're planning on changing the name of the app in the app store from "Titan VG Edition" (which is kind of a mouthful) to "Titan HD". I hope you all agree that the new name is simpler and I'd like to do the name change sooner rather than later to minimize confusion.

Many thanks to Michael Black for the suggestion in this very thread

Best,

- Kris
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  • Posted Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:36 am
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