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Rick's Adventures in Board Gaming

Making note of my life in the hobby. Occasional attempts at humor included.
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The Incredible Rotating Thumb III - Bearing(!) my 23 Peloponnes

Rick Baptist
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Yesterday I had the chance to go to the Orange County Board Gamers monthly event at the Duck Club, which was at one time literally a hangout for hunters to go and share stories about shooting ducks. That we are playing board games in such a setting, in a beautiful building surrounded by gorgeous foliage and such, pleases me. I guess playing with some good people also made it fun. And hey, I got to play lots of new games. Eventually, that dumb dirty thumb of mine started flipping and flopping around, and here's the result of that.


23

Now, if you know me, my gaming tastes does not usually include card games. Give me a board and I'm happy. But when James pulled out 23 and likened it to No Thanks!, my curiosity got the best of me. And it got a big fat thumbs up!

23 is played with a deck of cards numbered 1 to 23, with one "1" card, two "2" cards, and three each of the cards 3-23.. You are then given three green tokens, nine cards, and the game begins. The object is for the group of players to lay down cards starting at one, and work your way up chronologically to 23, ultimately desiring to run out of cards. Sounds boring so far. Well, it's not, because you have some options! First of all, you can lay down doubles or triples of a number if you have it. Also, if a 15 is laid down and you have a 17 and you want to play it, you have to take a purple token. Purple tokens are minus one (like No Thanks!) In the above example, if you had an 18 you could lay it down for two purple tokens, etc. And if you had a big gap, say 15 is showing and you have a 20, you can choose to pass by just taking one token. Okay, where's the fun still? All this gets tied together because of those three green tokens in front of you. Eventually, you're going to get to the point where you all most likely have cards that have been missed along the way. On your turn, you have the option of spending those green tokens to move back through time.

Let's say I have two 15s in my hand that have been skipped by. The pot is at 20. I can spend one green token to move the count back to 15, thereby getting both 15s out of my hand. Of course, if you save these green tokens they are worth +2 in the end to your score, which is a pretty big deal. But any cards left in your hand at the end of the game are -1 each, so it's something to consider if you have a lot of cards. Plus, you get a three-point bonus if you run out of cards by the end! So losing cards is key. Now piggy-backing off the above example, the pot is now at 15. To my left, James has three 13s he wants to desperately get rid of! So he uses his green chip to go back to 13. David is in luck, because he had one 14 that he didn't want to use a chip to go back in time to get rid of, but now can. Ralph is not in luck, as his lowest card is 23, so he takes a minus chip. Now it's back to me again, and lo and behold I had a 14 that I figured I couldn't get rid of!

Turns are fast and there's a lot of tension and wishing going on. The biggest part of the game is trying to gauge when to use your green chips, because no one likes spending points -- but to try and get rid of all your cards for the three-point bonus it's just too enticing. And of course you constantly are desiring for others to use theirs so you don't have to use your own! I've only played two plays of 23 so far, but I'm going to rate it higher than No Thanks! for now. Lord knows that I find No Thanks! tense, as I won the 7 Wonders: Leaders expansion by winning the No Thanks! tournament at Strategicon last year, but I like the game of 23 a bit more. You must try it out! Amigo has a hit with this one and I hope it gets over to the States soon.

(this was posted as a Review on the BGG 23 page, as I saw there wasn't any yet!)


Peloponnes

I'm going to clarify something right from the start: I LIKE THIS GAME. In fact, I like it a lot! But the thumb up/thumb down rating is mostly because you can't find it to buy it, and even if you did you'd have to pay an arm and a leg. For some ungodly reason, this game hasn't been picked up by a major publisher. With all the utter garbage that we get subjected to through the years, I HAVEN'T THE FAINTEST why this game hasn't been picked up and distributed. Anyway, I'm not going to give a full-scale review here because there's already been one done, but you really need to go check this game out and start preaching for it to become available again.

Maybe it's the name? The theme? David & Hannibal, the two guys I played it with, likened it to 7 Wonders as a meatier alternative, and I have to agree there are certainly similarities in theme and game length. But I feel that it stands apart quite well. In Peloponnes, you are building your own civilization (yay!) and dealing with the disasters that are sure to befall it (boo!) There is a bit of In the Year of the Dragon here as you're managing your resources and bidding on tiles to try to avoid these horrible plagues and famines around the corner. It's a bidding game, but it didn't seem as overwhelming as most bidding games do the first time (in fact, our teacher came in last). Scoring was a cinch and it wrapped up in 45 minutes or less. Fantastic game.

Seriously! Again, this is a two-thumb up game and needs to be widely distributed. Slap a name on there people can pronounce and you have a winner. Wish I had my own game company so I could do it! Please go check it out and if you've played it, let me know what you think. I'd be curious to know what you all thought of it, because without David introducing it and trusting his game acumen, I would never have given it a second look.


Bears!

Sometimes I really don't like this section, because I really like the theme, the art, and the company that makes Bears! I even like writing the name Bears! because I like writing lower-case letters after exclamation points. And it looks funny because every time I write the name of the game everyone thinks I'm really excited about it. Bears!

Joking aside, I thought I would like this little filler created by the wife of the designer of Castle Panic, a game our family loves. It's a real-time game, which I have discussed in this blog in the past and I enjoy that mechanic. It's dice-rolling as well, which I overall enjoy. Here's the game: Roll your five dice and the 20 in the middle at the same time. Quickly choose which ones match up with the ones you have to score points. Reroll your own if needed. When all tents or all bears are left, the round ends and you score. There are combos you need to land for positive or negative points. That's it. Let me comment on the game -- the game, itself, is fine. It works, it was fun on the first few rolls. After playing an entire game of 10 minutes, though, I thoroughly doubt I would ever want to pick it up again. This is unfortunate, but true! Even with an exclamation! There's just nothing pulling me back to it.

And the crazy part is, it's marketed with children in mind, but I've never seen a real-time game go over well with children. Adults just have quicker reactions. If you leave the kids to fend for themselves, as long as they're all around the same grade level, sure, it would work. But that's a small window. And that's assuming the kids would play it again, too. So I'm sorry, Bears!, but my love of sticking two punctuations together didn't save you. But a neat idea that perhaps just needed to be fleshed out a bit more.

(I don't usually do this, but I posted this as a Review in the Bears! forum as well. All the reviews there were mostly positive and so I felt I had to dampen the enthusiasm a bit...)

redtraingreentrainbluetrainyellowtrainblacktrainpurpletrain

Lots of fun in store for this little blog in the future. I've been enjoying the 'thumb' series and writing about games in general. Planning for my birthday gameday is coming along very well and after putting in some considerable work, I've been collecting sponsors for the event. You can see the progress of the event at the website at rickcon.webs.com. I am blown away at the friendliness and generosity of the board game industry as a whole and I encourage you to check out the Sponsors page and support them by any means necessary. Their willingness to contribute to a small event like this says a lot about them.

See you next time!
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15 Comments
Subscribe sub options Mon Jan 9, 2012 8:26 pm
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David Etherton
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Rick, I came in last on Sun Sea and Sand, not Peloponnes :-)

Also, the big chips in 23 were green, not red! And I thought the bonus for getting rid of all your cards was only three points?
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  • Edited Mon Jan 9, 2012 8:31 pm
  • Posted Mon Jan 9, 2012 8:29 pm
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Scott Everts
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I agree that Peloponnes is a fantastic light, tile laying, civ building game. It's my favorite civ game right now.

I got all the expansions but had to order everything direct from the publisher and it was a bit expensive. Though it is getting more distribution. I actually saw it in a local game store about a month ago. Though only the base game, not the expansions.

It could probably use a graphic redesign. It's very serviceable but a fresh coat of paint would certainly help!
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  • Edited Mon Jan 9, 2012 8:34 pm
  • Posted Mon Jan 9, 2012 8:32 pm
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David Etherton
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I also don't think $45 (at coolstuffinc) is "an arm and a leg". Granted, it's overpriced as far as the components are concerned (honestly the tiles could be replaced with a deck of cards) relative to other games but it's one of my favorite games (meaty decisions but over quickly) right now for what it is.

-Dave
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  • Posted Mon Jan 9, 2012 8:36 pm
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Rick Baptist
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etherton wrote:
Rick, I came in last on Sun Sea and Sand, not Peloponnes :-)

Also, the big chips in 23 were green, not red! And I thought the bonus for getting rid of all your cards was only three points?


Sorry David, it got lost in the gaming "ether". Get it?

And a multitude of thanks for pointing out that I got the color wrong, thereby causing me to waste several minutes of my life correcting the colors in the post! You know, you were there -- you don't have to read what happened!



You're right, it is available for $45 at CoolStuff. I will have to settle with playing your copy until a cooler-looking and cheaper version comes out with both expansions included. I'm such a headache.
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  • Posted Mon Jan 9, 2012 8:44 pm
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David Etherton
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SlikkRikk wrote:
You're right, it is available for $45 at CoolStuff. I will have to settle with playing your copy until a cooler-looking and cheaper version comes out with both expansions included. I'm such a headache.


Don't worry, I'd probably buy it again if that happened.

The first expansion adds six player support (meh) but a lot of people play with six tiles per round anyway (Scott does IIRC) which gives people more choices. It also adds Sea tiles which are worth prestige points and also lower your food requirement by one.

The second expansion adds three new civilizations, and a ninth round with some pretty different tiles (one makes your people worth 4 points each, another gives you a prestige point for every two coins instead of three, another kills a bunch of your people but then lets you use the *larger* of your population and prestige scores). That ninth round includes *another* feeding round, which seems pretty brutal in a game that's already pretty brutal, so I'm not convinced the game really needs expanding.

I hope and expect Scott to disagree with me :-)

-Dave
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  • Posted Mon Jan 9, 2012 9:12 pm
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David Etherton
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SlikkRikk wrote:
[q="etherton"]And a multitude of thanks for pointing out that I got the color wrong, thereby causing me to waste several minutes of my life correcting the colors in the post! You know, you were there -- you don't have to read what happened!


Glad I could be of service! :-) You'll want to fix the review you posted too :-)
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  • Posted Mon Jan 9, 2012 9:13 pm
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Kevin B. Smith
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etherton wrote:
I also don't think $45 (at coolstuffinc) is "an arm and a leg".

For quite a while, it was not available at any US retailer that I could fine. It seems CSI got a shipment in, and has them for $45. Oddly, another LGS here also got a copy in recently. But neither offers any of the expansions. The good news is that shipping on the expansions (from Europe) would be less than on the whole game.

It is one of my favorite games right now, too. The bidding is fierce, but very rarely nasty. I agree that it is surprisingly first-timer friendly, for an auction game. Tracking resources is slightly fiddly, and it's not "gateway easy" to teach. I would love to see it picked up by a bigger publisher.

I haven't played with the Sea tiles or Athens yet, but the other expansion doesn't seem absolutely necessary to me (unless you need to play with 6 players).
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  • Posted Mon Jan 9, 2012 9:22 pm
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David Etherton
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Rick, remind me to bring Walnut Grove next time, you might like it too. It has some superficial similarities to Peloponnes (eight turns long, building a small civilization of sorts) but is a little quicker and a little more relaxing while still having interesting decisions.

It's also becoming more widely available here in the states.

In a nutshell: There are eight turns. Each turn consists of four phases. The first phase, you draw several land tiles and keep and place 1 (sometimes 2). Second phase, you place your workers on regions of land to produce resources; a region produces resources equal to the number of tiles in that region. Tiles have multiple region types on them so there is a bit of a puzzle/Carcasonne aspect to this part of the game. Third phase is the only directly interactive part of the game, and it's essentially a "worker placement meets rondel" where you can buy improvements, hire workers, get resources, sell resources, etc. Finally you have to heat your homes and feed your workers.

I meant to bring it yesterday, but in the rush to get out the door I forgot to throw it in my trunk.

-Dave

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  • Posted Mon Jan 9, 2012 9:25 pm
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Scott Everts
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etherton wrote:
SlikkRikk wrote:
You're right, it is available for $45 at CoolStuff. I will have to settle with playing your copy until a cooler-looking and cheaper version comes out with both expansions included. I'm such a headache.


Don't worry, I'd probably buy it again if that happened.

The first expansion adds six player support (meh) but a lot of people play with six tiles per round anyway (Scott does IIRC) which gives people more choices. It also adds Sea tiles which are worth prestige points and also lower your food requirement by one.

The second expansion adds three new civilizations, and a ninth round with some pretty different tiles (one makes your people worth 4 points each, another gives you a prestige point for every two coins instead of three, another kills a bunch of your people but then lets you use the *larger* of your population and prestige scores). That ninth round includes *another* feeding round, which seems pretty brutal in a game that's already pretty brutal, so I'm not convinced the game really needs expanding.

I hope and expect Scott to disagree with me :-)

-Dave

I like playing with 6 tiles but it does lower the cutthroat aspect a bit. The main reason is you can play with all the expansion tiles. Normally you only play with all of them if you have 6 players. Many of them are pretty cool so like to have them out since we have never done 6 players.

With the expansions there's a lot more disaster protection tiles so players have more opportunities to protect themselves from 1 or 2 disasters. This can be huge.

I agree that the 9th round in expansion 2 can be brutal. I think if you play with 6 tiles it cuts down on the problem since there's more opportunities to grab a good tile and not be "locked out" as much.

If you want a cutthroat game, play 5 tiles and 9th round. If you want a friendly game, 6 tiles and no 9th round. My preference is 6 tiles and 9th which is kind of in the middle but I really like the new tiles!

Oh, and there is the Athens mini-expansion too which shakes up the game even more! One tile is assigned to Athens which you can pick up for free! But have to miss buying a tile next round (still get 3 money). And there's a big negative if you use Athens on the last turn.
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  • Posted Mon Jan 9, 2012 9:27 pm
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Bruce Murphy
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While I think Peloponnes is cute and fun (and have since I played it at its debut Essen), it can feel as if the events almost drive the game more than player choices.

B>
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  • Posted Mon Jan 9, 2012 10:35 pm
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Scott Everts
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thepackrat wrote:
While I think Peloponnes is cute and fun (and have since I played it at its debut Essen), it can feel as if the events almost drive the game more than player choices.

B>

Certainly in the base game that is true. But I think with the expansions, they add a lot more choices on buildings and ways to protect yourself. Our first game way back when I got it was the base game. Then we didn't play it for over a year and I reintroduced it with both expansions. The general comments were much better since there seemed to be a lot more tough decisions on choosing the right things to purchase. That's probably why I like to put out 6 tiles at a time. You get the Athens one which is a tough choice, then 5 more to agonize over. And depending on player number, some of those are Conquest tiles.

It's light of course, but I like its speedy play and player interaction. There's always alot of laughing and cursing as tiles are picked.
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  • Posted Mon Jan 9, 2012 10:42 pm
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Great meeting you and Dave yesterday, and I'm glad you liked 23! I really like it too, even though I did terribly in those last couple of hands I'm gonna give it another go 2-player with my wife, but I suspect that more players is better. And yeah, that Duck Club is such a nice venue!

James
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  • Posted Mon Jan 9, 2012 11:00 pm
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Scott Everts
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Bummed I missed Duck Club this month! Sounds like you guys had a great time. Hopefully next time.
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  • Posted Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:13 am
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EXTRA AVOCADO!
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etherton wrote:
Rick, I came in last on Sun Sea and Sand, not Peloponnes :-)


That would be me- 27 people score... 20 in prestige.
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  • Posted Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:22 am
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Haden turner
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Re: Peloponnes
I was lucky enough to pick this little gem up at my flgs.. its great,the fact that it plays so well solo makes it even better.
Some nice tight decisions and it ramps up nicely.
I even find the graphic design charming and that it lends to the coziness of the game, sure it would be great if it looked like Agricola or 7 wonders but then it would'nt be Peloponnes.An all round great production.

...MMMmm.....expansions...

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  • Edited Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:51 am
  • Posted Thu Jan 19, 2012 3:48 am
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