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On Gamer's Games

Wherein I Discuss Those Games Described As Gamer's Games
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Jesse Dean
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Reviews and Wrapping Up 2011
In case you have not seen my review of the Manhattan Project, Atomic Tempo, is up. As my previous post on worker placement games indicated, I am quite pleased with the game and we have seen enough positive reception for it locally that I expect it will continue to get played for quite a while as a shorter option, though I do wonder how well it will end up competing with all the other great, new releases if I am no longer actively pushing it. It shall be interesting to see regardless.

So now that I have finished reviewing the “big” games of 2011 (Ora et Labora, Mage Knight, and Eclipse) and the two games I recently received review copies for (The Manhattan Project and Mob Ties) I admit I am not sure what game I want to review next. As part of my desire to make sure I experience the best of what 2011 has to offer, I went ahead and purchased BIOS Megafauna, based on some specific recommendations from On Gamer’s Games commenters, and also ordered Cave Evil due to its description over at Fortress: Ameritrash as one of the best thematic games of 2011. I also have a few other 2011 games that I have already played a few times and it would be a simple enough matter to play enough additional times to make writing a review worthwhile including Colonial: Europe’s Empires Overseas, Dungeon Petz, German Railways, and Vanuatu. I will probably just end up reviewing whichever of these games is first able to inspire me to do so, but I am open to suggestions both to as which game I should review as well as other games from 2011 that I may have missed.

Being Wrong
So when I made my “The Best” List for 2012 I included a game that I probably should not have. I had played it once a couple of days earlier and I was in love enough with theme and overall look and feel of the game that I did not give it due diligence before I put it on my list. This game was Warriors & Traders. Now a lot of the basic mechanics and ideas in the game are solid, and had a lot of interesting potential, but the lack of luck, static set-ups, the difficulty of meaningful player interaction, and the brutality of the barbarians combined in such a way that the game probably does not have enough interplay variability for my tastes and while I did not play the game enough to determine this for sure, I would be unsurprised if either the tech trees or the starting positions are imbalanced in rather significant ways. So I made a mistake in including it on my list and will try to avoid that mistake in the future. As it stands, I expect that in about June I will probably make a post giving a broader update on my evolving opinions on the 2011 crop as I play them more and continue to hit the games that I previously missed, both things like BIOS Megafauna and Cave Evil which I intentionally seek out, and things like Kings of Tokyo which I fully expect to play eventually even if I am relatively indifferent to the idea.

Staff Reviewer at 2d6.org
I am being added as one of 2d6.org’s staff reviewers. What does this mean? Mainly that my reviews will be posted on their website in addition to BGG, with the overall goal of making the website an excellent repository of reviews from a pretty broadly different group of reviewers.

I expect that there will also be collaborative works and discussions from the various staff reviewers in the future. If I am involved in any of them, I will be sure to let you know!

On The Table
As can be expected from my recent review, a large proportion of my gaming time in the last week or so has been spent playing The Manhattan Project. Eclipse, Mage Knight, and Ora et Labora have also all seen play, though I admit I am no longer interested in playing it twice a week like some of my the other locals are. I have also been slowly introducing some of older favorites to locals who are unfamiliar to them and Hansa Teutonica, Indonesia, and Race For the Galaxy have all hit the table recently. Unfortunately Indonesia largely flopped but I expect the rest will see plenty of play in the near future.

Two player gaming opportunities remain slim. I would really like to play Sekigahara (and Hellenes: Campaigns of the Peloponnesian War, and Twilight Struggle, and Hannibal, and Command & Colors: Ancients, etc.) more, but in my current game environment that is just not possible. However, I had a glimmer of hope in this respect on Wednesday as it was determined I might be able to have at least semi-regular game nights with a local starting in mid to late February. If that happens I expect to be writing a bit more about Sekigahara, Hellenes, and 1989 (when it comes out).

How has everyone been enjoying your recent plays? Any particular surprises lately?
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Subscribe sub options Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:55 pm
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Lance
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Welcome to 2d6.org buddy!

I played Dragon Valley the other day - not bad at all...though I wonder how much enjoyment you would get out of it. I think you will enjoy BIOS a lot.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:07 pm
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Eugene
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Quote:
Any particular surprises lately?

Kingdom Builder has rocked my week.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:52 pm
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I'm surprised that Indonesia flopped in your group. Any specific reasons as to why it wasn't well received?
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:54 pm
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Jesse Dean
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buzhannon wrote:
I'm surprised that Indonesia flopped in your group. Any specific reasons as to why it wasn't well received?


I think it was mostly confusion over strategy. We have a number of sharp gamers in our group, but most of them have not played many financial games. Previous iterations of my group have liked it, so it may get another shot, it just went worse then expected.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:02 pm
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Jesse Dean
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garygarison wrote:
Quote:
Any particular surprises lately?

Kingdom Builder has rocked my week.




So you like it?

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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:02 pm
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Eugene
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If you don't, I'm not your friend anymore.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:06 pm
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Jason Waeber
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Indonesia is a hugely frustrating game to play from behind, as you are rarely able to control your own fate when you can't participate meaningfully in bids. I confess I like it despite this, but it certainly doesn't make it easy to enjoy a first game.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:08 pm
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Jesse Dean
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garygarison wrote:
If you don't, I'm not your friend anymore.


I think it is a perfectly fine game, though I played it too much too fast, I am just a little surprised you like it.
 
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:12 pm
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Me too, hence my "lately surprised" reply. It being almost devoid of direct player interaction makes it all the more surprising.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:18 pm
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Kurt R
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jerubbaal wrote:
Indonesia is a hugely frustrating game to play from behind, as you are rarely able to control your own fate when you can't participate meaningfully in bids. I confess I like it despite this, but it certainly doesn't make it easy to enjoy a first game.

Agreed. Just had my first game last weekend with three friends. One of them kinda backed into a shipping strategy that catapulted her to victory over the other while the other two of us were pretty much out of it. Nonetheless, everyone liked it (yay).

Now that I know how to play, I know how I would teach it next time. Teaching this one in a way that helps people succeed is especially important.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:39 pm
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Kurt R
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Quote:
How has everyone been enjoying your recent plays? Any particular surprises lately?

You should try Kingdom of Solomon. It's got some interesting things going on re: worker placement. I don't think it's a game you'd ultimately want to own, but I do think you'd enjoy it for a handful of plays. I've only played 3P games so far, and it was only after my last game that we got the rules straightened out (the rulebook leaves a lot to be desired), but my impression is strong enough to recommend to you as "play" if not "buy."
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:42 pm
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Tim Seitz
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garygarison wrote:
If you don't, I'm not your friend anymore.

If that's a firm condition, then I am sorry to see you go!

It's a perfectly innocuous little game, but it's no shibboleth.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:01 pm
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Eugene
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Fuck you both. I'm gonna go hang out with Tom Vasel.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:24 pm
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Jesse Dean
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Why do you think I would only enjoy it for a few plays?
 
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:35 pm
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Jesse Dean
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garygarison wrote:
Fuck you both. I'm gonna go hang out with Tom Vasel.


Then you should come to the Dice Tower Convention in Orlando in July. He will be there. Then again so will I, so maybe you should not go.
 
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:37 pm
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Claudio Campuzano
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Cary's Kingdom Builder rantings have me very concerned. I'll be seeing him at EGG next week, so I'll check up on him and give you all a status report.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:45 pm
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Claudio Campuzano
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Cary, wanna play Kingdom Builder at EGG?
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:46 pm
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Eugene
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Don't make me fuck you too, Claudio.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:46 pm
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Tim Seitz
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Welcome to the Cult of the New... and Pretty!
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:54 pm
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Patrick Korner
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Surprises? Hmm. I was surprised at how little I ended up liking Power Grid: First Sparks.

I suspect I let the Power Grid part of the title mislead me. You'd think I'd have learned from the Factory Manager Fiasco, although at least this time the core game bore some resemblance to its progenitor.

On the plus side of the column, I really enjoyed German Railways. I think it might be a steep learning curve in figuring out how to do well in spite of not getting many turns, but I'm looking forward to the task.

Or I'll just do what I did the first game and get at least one turn each round, regardless of how many markers I have in the bag.

pk
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:55 pm
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Jesse Dean
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PatK wrote:
Or I'll just do what I did the first game and get at least one turn each round, regardless of how many markers I have in the bag.

pk


During my first game of German Railways I went three consecutive rounds without a single draw despite being lowest on the income chart. I never quite recovered from that, though I am not sure if it is impossible to recover that or if I simply did not know how.
 
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:59 pm
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Claudio Campuzano
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Quote:
How has everyone been enjoying your recent plays? Any particular surprises lately?

I think I found the worker placement game for me! For those that know me, this is like garygarrison proclaiming his love for Kingdom Builder, but I just played Power Struggle last night. While it is no world beater, it was fun, fast, and quirkily interesting. Adding an element of negotiation to worker placement is a breath of fresh air. Also, the idea that you may not want to head the divisions you need was very cool. I'm no theme junky, but the theme was very entertainingly implemented. I'm a little concerned about the scripting of the nemesis cards; it seems ill-advised to do anything but pursue your three to get the fourth. On the other hand, it does force you to really kick ass in the areas where you compete directly with your nemesis.

Fifth Avenue continues to be something I'm getting to the table and enjoying since I first played it last month. I'm quite certain it is an underrated gem that any devout Winsome fan should give a few plays to. Hint: Don't play with people that think the goal is to get as many businesses next to your buildings as quickly as possible.

In other news, I've fallen in love with The Resistance. We've been closing every gamenight with two or three rounds of this one with 8-10 players. It is gut-splittingly, pants-pissingly entertaining.

And finally, Animal Upon Animal has been a go-to filler of late. I normally wouln't give a shout out for fillers or kids games, but there aren't many games where you can yell about the injustice of someone's erect snake not leaving any room for your sheep.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:04 pm
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PatK wrote:
On the plus side of the column, I really enjoyed German Railways. I think it might be a steep learning curve in figuring out how to do well in spite of not getting many turns, but I'm looking forward to the task.

We played this last night. Great game. Just buy the right shares for the right price at the right time. Consider getting turns to be just an unexpected bonus.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:06 pm
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Jesse Dean
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Claudio, I hate to break it to you but I don't think Power Struggle is a worker placement game in any way, shape, or form. It is an area majority game.

I really need to make it out to Portland again one of these days. It is entertaining to see how your tastes have evolved since we last met.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:07 pm
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claudio212 wrote:
In other news, I've fallen in love with The Resistance.

This is the one that scares me. We've got some devoted Resistance players locally, always cajoling me into playing with them. I've...resisted for the most part.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:08 pm
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Claudio Campuzano
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doubtofbuddha wrote:
Claudio, I hate to break it to you but I don't think Power Struggle is a worker placement game in any way, shape, or form. It is an area majority game.

I really need to make it out to Portland again one of these days. It is entertaining to see how your tastes have evolved since we last met.


Not a worker placement! No wonder I liked it! But... I have workers... I place them... Managers too...

I suppose you are right. There is no 'put your dude there, get the stuff' mechanism. I guess it is in keeping with the theme of the game that there are workers that don't actually produce anything.

And yes, my tastes have changed - or better, broadened - but I still enjoy me some train games. I eagerly look forward to a P-O match with Cary next week. I also still have a healthy loathing for a lot of games so don't let the new open-minded me fool you.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:43 pm
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doubtofbuddha wrote:
Why do you think I would only enjoy it for a few plays?

Well, in general, for you to own a game it needs to have the depth of 20/30/40+(?) plays. I'm not sure Kingdom of Solomon has that but I think it certainly has enough for you to enjoy it for a few plays due to the novelty of the experience.

What I find interesting, specifically, is:

- When placing workers, you choose between resource spaces and action spaces. There are a few super action spaces that are quite powerful and attractive but you must place your remaining workers there
- One of those super action spaces adjusts the turn order, and as this happens after resources are collected but before the building phase, it has huge implications
- There's a slight spatial element in that you can create resource regions whereby you place one worker and collect for all resource spaces connected via your roads.
- When building, you can choose to construct a building which will give you VPs and a unique action space for your workers OR to build part of the temple which gives you the choice of VPs or a temple token. Temple tokens give you the power of the High Priest and allow you to break a placement rule once per turn (and gives you 20 endgame VPs).
- You can buy or sell to the market. All transactions are done with VPs

Anticipating other player's actions is a big part of the game as you can see what resources they have and figure out which building they're gunning for and/or if they are building part of the temple (a la going to the castle in Caylus). Turn order is huge so you have to sacrifice multiple workers in order to take that super action space.

In my last game, we thought the player who controlled the High Priest had it locked up due to his 20VP bonus, but I was able to block him from buying a building, extend the game one more turn, and use the market to dump a bunch of excess resources for VPs to pull out the victory. The buildings could use more variety IMO but they're varied enough that you can use them to try different approaches with their powers (e.g., accumulate certain resources, get bonus cards, get VPs).

Overall, I think it delivers in terms of tension (placing your workers) and ways to go about getting points as your opponents block you.

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  • Edited Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:34 pm
  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:32 pm
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claudio212 wrote:
I think I found the worker placement game for me! For those that know me, this is like garygarrison proclaiming his love for Kingdom Builder, but I just played Power Struggle last night. While it is no world beater, it was fun, fast, and quirkily interesting. Adding an element of negotiation to worker placement is a breath of fresh air. Also, the idea that you may not want to head the divisions you need was very cool. I'm no theme junky, but the theme was very entertainingly implemented. I'm a little concerned about the scripting of the nemesis cards; it seems ill-advised to do anything but pursue your three to get the fourth. On the other hand, it does force you to really kick ass in the areas where you compete directly with your nemesis.

Power Struggle is as awesome as it is unique.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:37 pm
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James Mathe
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claudio212 wrote:
Power Struggle is as awesome as it is unique.


Then why have 2 copies of this game sat in my store for over a year unsold? Give me some sales pitches.

James
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:00 pm
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My biggest recent surprise is that I am starting to enjoy Quarriors!, even playing with the published culling rules rather than the designer's preferred method. :-)
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:23 pm
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Oh, and congrats on the recognition and added visibility/responsibility at 2d6.org -- you've earned it.
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:27 pm
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Morganza wrote:
Oh, and congrats on the recognition and added visibility/responsibility at 2d6.org -- you've earned it.

+1
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  • Posted Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:39 pm
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Dave Eisen
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I was not super impressed with my one play of Kingdom of Solomon at BGG.CON. I had been looking forward to it.

Yes, it's worker placement, with economic growth and building and a geometric board component. All very nice. The way the market works is good, if a little slow given the "one buy/sell at a time" mechanic which was so annoying in Wealth of Nations.

But the buildings were not very interesting. I did not like the "steal a resource from another player" action. And fundamentally the game just felt flat and dragged a little.

This is apart from really poor printed rules: we figured out what was intended and ended up playing correctly.
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:39 am
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Bryan Maxwell
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Not really a surprise, but Stephenson's Rocket has been gaining traction here. I'm really digging it, it has that "simple rules/tough decisions" thing I love so much. It packs a lot of game into 60 minutes.
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:04 am
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Claudio Campuzano
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Mr_Nuts wrote:
Not really a surprise, but Stephenson's Rocket has been gaining traction here. I'm really digging it, it has that "simple rules/tough decisions" thing I love so much. It packs a lot of game into 60 minutes.

I've been getting that one it a bunch too recently. I really dig it.
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:27 am
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J C Lawrence
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It is one of the few games that plays equally well across the entire player range.
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:35 am
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Mikko Saari
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I was very surprised to enjoy Kings of Mithril, considering how awful Atlantic Triangle was and how luck-heavy the game is in theory.
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:00 am
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Buz
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doubtofbuddha wrote:
buzhannon wrote:
I'm surprised that Indonesia flopped in your group. Any specific reasons as to why it wasn't well received?


I think it was mostly confusion over strategy. We have a number of sharp gamers in our group, but most of them have not played many financial games. Previous iterations of my group have liked it, so it may get another shot, it just went worse then expected.


This incident has just about burst my bubble. I visualize your gaming group as this idyllic Utopia of wise gamers, playing all the games I wish I could but for which I don't have time or treasure to spare. If they don't enjoy a gem like Indonesia, they they're clearly not perfect.

Maybe close to, but not perfect.
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:50 am
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Dwarf Bashful the 6th
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So what actually happened with W&T?
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:43 am
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Jesse Dean
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buzhannon wrote:


This incident has just about burst my bubble. I visualize your gaming group as this idyllic Utopia of wise gamers, playing all the games I wish I could but for which I don't have time or treasure to spare. If they don't enjoy a gem like Indonesia, they they're clearly not perfect.

Maybe close to, but not perfect.


Would it help if I pointed out that my larger "group" (i.e. those I play with at least semi-regularly) of gamers actually has about 10 or so people in it and that the other part of it not involved in this game likes Indonesia, 18XX, and the like quite a bit. I just tried to introduce it to the less financially-focused set of my group and it did not work quite as well except for with the player who has played 18XX (coincidentally he also won).

If you are curious about my group, some of them are on BGG:
Will Pirnasch
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Remedy
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There are some others on BGG but they do not actually do anything with their accounts so...

I think only Mike and Remedy look at my blog.
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  • Edited Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:53 pm
  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:52 pm
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Jesse Dean
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agnieszkaemilia wrote:
So what actually happened with W&T?


I will address this in a future post.
 
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  • Edited Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:52 pm
  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:52 pm
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Tim Seitz
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Glen Allen
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Kurt, your description here sounds almost exactly like Caylus.
enzo622 wrote:
What I find interesting, specifically, is:

- When placing workers, you choose between resource spaces and action spaces.

Like Caylus, soem spots give resources, some spots allow you to do things, build buildings, trade, buy, mess with provost, get favors, etc.

Quote:
- One of those super action spaces adjusts the turn order, and as this happens after resources are collected but before the building phase, it has huge implications

Caylus has a turn order spot, but it affects the next turn. Difference is that it only takes one worker. There are no super spaces.

Quote:
- There's a slight spatial element in that you can create resource regions whereby you place one worker and collect for all resource spaces connected via your roads.

Difference it seems.

Quote:
- When building, you can choose to construct a building which will give you VPs and a unique action space for your workers OR to build part of the temple which gives you the choice of VPs or a temple token.

In Caylus, you can build a building down the road or part of the castle, which gives you a favor.

Quote:
- You can buy or sell to the market.

Caylus has market/peddler locations that can be built

Quote:
All transactions are done with VPs

Different here as Caylus uses VP and money.

So based on that, maybe I would like it!

So, other than the roads and high priest, are there other ways it is different?
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:14 pm
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Kurt R
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out4blood wrote:
So, other than the roads and high priest, are there other ways it is different?

The market is different b/c you can sell resources straight out for VPs, but in doing so, you might give your opponent access to that missing piece of stone they need to build something (the market is only loaded with what players sell).

Also, there's some take-that in the game. As Dave said above, not everyone likes the Thief space which allows you to steal a resource from another player. It can lead people to feel picked on, but I'm OK with it b/c you can see it coming and you can plan for it. If you need gold, make sure you get two this turn b/c one will be stolen or take that space yourself. I think it's a balancing mechanism and while I didn't like it at first, I just accommodate it into my resource gathering plans. Then there are bonus cards that give you resources/VPs or make others discard some of theirs (taxation). I used one of these to keep players from being able to build and catapulted from third to first. Of course, Caylus has the Provost so ...
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:41 pm
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Michael Reneer
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doubtofbuddha wrote:
I think only Mike and Remedy look at my blog.


Only when it suits me
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  • Posted Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:35 am
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