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NY Toy Fair 2012: Hobby Becomes Mainstream, and Vice Versa

W. Eric Martin
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On Monday, Feb. 13, 2012, I blazed through New York Toy Fair in seven hours and undoubtedly missed dozens of new games on display at the show. I plan to follow up with the contacts listed on the flyers and catalogs and postcards that I scooped up while whirlwinding through the aisles, and I'll scan Toy Fair's virtual press site again to look for publishers and games not already covered in the 2012 NY Toy Fair Preview that I compiled for BGG.

That said, I'm more interested in discussing two broad subjects related to the U.S. game market, both of which came up in multiple conversations with publishers during NY Toy Fair, than particular games, so let's talk about that first, then get to the games in later posts.

Us 1 :: Them 10,000

Subject #1 is the dichotomy at the heart of the U.S. game industry. No, I'm not talking about the tired Eurogame vs. Ameritrash debate. That topic is trite and meaningless, of interest only to those who bathe in minutiae that's irrelevant and invisible to those outside the hobby.

Instead I'm talking about the division of the market between hobby and mainstream game releases, and consequently the division of gamers into hobbyists and the public at large. Hobbyists follow game release schedules, study designers and publishers and the style of games they release, discuss game trends, and build a mental image of the game industry that includes them as an essential part of it. Joe Public, on the other hand, buys a game, plays it with friends or family, has a good time, then puts it away and doesn't obsess over it.

In case you didn't already know, the number of Joe Publics in the world is vastly more than you could ever imagine.

Hobby, Mainstream or Both?

In late 2011 at Toys R Us, after searching in vain for new Cars diecast figures with my son, I visited the store's game section and was surprised by this selection:

Progress?


To be clear, I was not surprised by either the Jersey Shore Trivia Game or yet another version of Jenga, but rather by the presence of the comparatively meaty Jungle Speed between those foamy pieces of game breading. Jungle Speed in Toys R Us? Neat, I thought. Hope that goes well for Asmodee.

Then shortly afterward I saw Jungle Speed on sale at the mainstream department store Target, then at a different Target, then at multiple Barnes & Noble bookstores, and finally at Walmart. How is this possible, I wondered? This little game – this decade-old design that's been kicking around hobby stores – is suddenly all over the place.

At NY Toy Fair, I asked Stefan Brunell from the U.S. branch of Asmodee about this, and he said that success came after finally realizing that the U.S. market is not like those in France and Germany. In those countries, he explained, games are sold in retail outlets of all sizes, and games percolate up from small stores and tiny print runs to medium-sized, then large retail outlets. Games prove themselves over time, then earn a spot in a larger retail arena, then move up again, and so on. (Many games, of course, never graduate to larger outlets, or they advance a bit but then stagnate.)

The U.S. market, by comparison, has no middle ground; every retailer is either big or tiny, so there's no middle ground by which games can become known over time. "Even something like Funagain," says Brunell, is tiny. Thus, publishers need to recognize this division and pitch their games to the large players directly. Asmodee finally did this with Jungle Speed, and the result is that game appearing in mainstream outlets across the country and more copies being sold in the U.S. in three months than in the previous ten years. (In March 2010 on Boardgame News, I had linked to an article in Air le Mag (via Filosofia) that mentioned annual Jungle Speed sales of 200,000 copies. That total was for worldwide sales; Brunell expects Jungle Speed sales in 2012 in the U.S. alone to far surpass that number.)

That success with Jungle Speed has been mirrored in other mainstream retail outlets with other games. The original Munchkin game was added to two dozen Target stores in April 2011 as a test sales program ten years after the game's original release (and domination of sales charts in hobby stores), and sales went so well that by January 2012 the game was available in nearly all 1,500 Target locations. So as with Jungle Speed, a game once thought of as hobby-specific has gone mainstream in terms of its availability – with nothing being changed in the game play itself.

Barnes & Noble has also become an influencer in the general game market. One publisher at NY Toy Fair mentioned that when B&N picks up a title, it orders a thousand copies in one shot – which is a huge number for publishers used to handling print runs that consist of only a few thousand copies in total. Another publisher explained that B&N requested changes in box size (but not the game play) so that the titles would have more shelf presence in their stores, the goal being to have offerings at multiple price points in each game category it carries.

B&N also carries a handful of different Munchkin standalone games. Matt Morgan at MTV Geek interviewed B&N reps in October 2011 about their approach to game selection, and one said, "I'm continued to be blown away by Munchkin." That same article explained that B&N reps rushed to get Fantasy Flight's Civilization board game on shelves in time for the 2011 holiday season, and the game sold out and was reordered. With "at least 3 copies in each of [the] 'A' stores" and 450 'A' stores in the B&N chain, at least 1,350 copies of a complicated hobby game were sold at MSRP to the public at large. B&N also carries (and presumably sells) Gears of War, Agricola, 7 Wonders, Arkham Horror, Days of Steam, Empire Builder, and other titles normally thought of as fairly involved and designed for hobby gamers.

All of which makes me think that the difference between hobby and mainstream game releases might be less than most gamers perceive it to be. I've long pushed for greater public awareness of designer games; in 2006, for example, I sold a write-up on Reef Encounter to Scuba Diving magazine, sold a review of Primordial Soup to the science magazine Discover, and wrote a regular column on games for the (short-lived) Coffee Magazine. I pitched many more game-related articles to magazines and newspapers in the mid-2000s and had some success, with many, many more rejections. Each success was all about getting the right game in front of the right readership, the right market – although I'd argue that many of the rejections also had the right game for the right market, especially Funny Friends for Rolling Stone. C'mon!

In the end, perhaps the only difference between the majority of hobby and mainstream game releases is where they are sold – and with more outlets carrying more designer games, the line between what's hobby and what's mainstream may continue to blur until the dichotomy has even less meaning than it already does. Whether this will happen or not won't be clear for a couple of years, as those buying Civilization and other "hobby" games via mainstream outlets might have been scared away from buying unfamiliar games – or they might be ready to try something new this holiday season. Time will tell...

Kicking Game Sales into the Mainstream

The other subject under discussion at NY Toy Fair was the emergence – or rather, the growing presence – of Kickstarter as a vehicle for game sales for publishers both large and small. While I've backed a number of Kickstarter projects, I've always held reservations about the Kickstarter process itself for three reasons:

• The risk-shifting involved in the publication process, with a publisher not fronting the money to produce a game but rather using funds from customers to do so. At some level, I want to know that a publisher has invested itself in the success of a game and is putting itself financially at risk so that it is, in a sense, saying, "This is how much trust we have in this game. If it weren't as good as we think it is, we would never have brought it to market?" Yes, I know publishers that use their own funds can deliver terrible games as easily as those using Kickstarter – and however you buy a game, you're at risk of not getting something you like – but still that mental discomfort persists.

• The ease with which awful projects rub shoulders with good ones. I know this shouldn't bother me since a project's awfulness says more about the sponsor than about anyone involved in the gaming community, but I still hate to have others furthering the notion that a slapped-together roll-and-move activity – one intended more for delivering eyeballs to sponsors than for delivering game play to buyers – is what I'm talking about when I talk about games. I'm interested in games as a creative pursuit, as an artistic medium, and while I agree that the primary purpose of a game is to play it, I still enjoy seeing what others create and present as objects unto themselves.

• The knowledge that some day a publisher will take the money and run, delivering nothing to buyers and tainting future possibilities for those who want backing for projects of their own.

All that said, talks with a number of publishers at NY Toy Fair had me thinking about Kickstarter from three new angles, one being from the hobby/mainstream angle that I discussed above. I knew from previous discussions with game industry personnel that game publication projects on Kickstarter attract buyers far beyond the BGG audience – but what I didn't know was how large that mainstream audience is. One publisher estimated that the percentage of supporters not coming to a project through BGG, Tric Trac or other hobby-specific media was 60-80%. One way or another, those outside the normal confines of what we think of as the game hobby are finding out about these projects and backing them – and as I stated above every such purchase blurs the difference between hobby and mainstream games.

Another angle to Kickstarter relates to the risk-shifting I mentioned above. Yes, a publisher using Kickstarter benefits by raising funds to cover the cost of game production – but a related and possibly even more important factor is that the publisher has some way to estimate sales for the game in the marketplace at large and can adjust the print run accordingly. If a game barely clears its funding goal, the publisher can cut publication numbers to cover what's needed for the project and basically wash its hands of the game, forgetting about long-term profit to satisfy its immediate obligations, then move on. If a game has more support than anticipated – or support from unexpected locations – the publisher can figure that it underestimated the game's potential and boost the print run accordingly.

Why is this practice important? Because game retailers – both brick-and-mortar stores and online sellers – have traditionally been terrible at placing preorders, leaving publishers in the dark as to how many games to produce.

Asmodee's Stefan Brunell mentioned this during our talk. In late 2011 Asmodee brought it roughly two thousand copies of Eclipse, despite not having preorders to justify that amount, and blew through all the copies immediately. Now Asmodee has an Eclipse reprint of 5,000 copies scheduled for release in the U.S. in May 2012. Brunell says that his bosses balked initially because retailers and distributors still weren't placing reserve orders to justify a print run that large, but he convinced them to do it anyway. What's changed in the intervening weeks between the time that reprint order was placed and today? Eclipse has hit large, everyone wants it, retailers and distributors have finally placed preorders – and now those 5,000 copies are already sold out at the publisher level, with another reprint in the works. If retailers and distributors had done their homework when the game debuted at Spiel 2011 in October and placed orders accordingly, both the initial shipment and the reprint would be larger, and everyone would have a better chance of getting the game. (That said, gamers also tend to be negligent when it comes to placing preorders, and their preorders drive those of retailers and others down the line.)

The third angle relevant to Kickstarter taking on a bigger role for publishers relates to the Kickstarter projects being relatively inexpensive marketing for the games themselves. An active project gets people talking about a game, reading the rules, asking questions, looking for artwork, and so on – all of which brings games to the attention of retailers and distributors, in addition to those who would buy the game directly. One publisher at NY Toy Fair said that while you might think that distributors would be upset by sales lost directly to Kickstarter buyers, they are instead happy that Kickstarter advertises the game more effectively than a sell sheet or a description in their catalog, thereby getting gamers excited about the game and retailers eager to support something that already has a presence in the market. Kickstarter does the work that a distributor might otherwise need to do – or might not do at all, which would leave the game gasping for air among a crowd of indifferent retailers.

Like it or not, more publishers will be using Kickstarter for more games in the years to come, both for off-the-wall projects that might have a seemingly small audience and for otherwise "normal" games that you'd expect to see available through all the regular outlets anyway. As for what those titles will be, watch this space for details!
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Joel Eddy
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Awesome run down of "Where We Are"!
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  • Posted Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:18 pm
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Brian Leet
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Terrific report and musings Eric. It is informative to hear how established players are viewing Kickstarter.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:23 pm
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Eric, this is your best article yet, and you have many great ones.
Thanks for all the time and effort you put into these!
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  • Posted Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:58 pm
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Derek Thompson
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Eric, not only is this a really informative article, I just wanted to add that I really like your writing style in general. It's very witty and classy, without being verbose. Keep it up.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:02 pm
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Andrew Meredith
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This is a really good article, and one more reason why we can consider Kickstarter. Whether Kickstarter is an "interim technology" that will lead to a bigger or better thing (As Myspace did before Facebook) the future will tell. In the meantime, good ideas can be used there until that day comes.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:22 pm
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Alan Kaiser
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Quote:
Why is this practice important? Because game retailers – both brick-and-mortar stores and online sellers – have traditionally been terrible at placing preorders, leaving publishers in the dark as to how many games to produce.

Asmodee's Stefan Brunell mentioned this during our talk. In late 2011 Asmodee brought it roughly two thousand copies of Eclipse, despite not having preorders to justify that amount, and blew through all the copies immediately. Now Asmodee has an Eclipse reprint of 5,000 copies scheduled for release in the U.S. in May 2012. Brunell says that his bosses balked initially because retailers and distributors still weren't placing reserve orders to justify a print run that large, but he convinced them to do it anyway. What's changed in the intervening weeks between the time that reprint order was placed and today? Eclipse has hit large, everyone wants it, retailers and distributors have finally placed preorders – and now those 5,000 copies are already sold out at the publisher level, with another reprint in the works. If retailers and distributors had done their homework when the game debuted at Spiel 2011 in October and placed orders accordingly, both the initial shipment and the reprint would be larger, and everyone would have a better chance of getting the game. (That said, gamers also tend to be negligent when it comes to placing preorders, and their preorders drive those of retailers and others down the line.)


Those damn FLGS attempting to undermine the entire hobby game market for their own selfish reasons! Blame it on the retailers. Seriously! I can't believe you wrote this! Are the retailers supposed to preorder every game?? All retailers have to go on is generally a little blurb in a catalog from their distributor or from a phone call from their distributor. They don't have time to dig through BGG to figure out what might be a hot game months in advance of a release. I'd put the blame squarely on the publishers. They provide no meaningful information to the retail chain that would allow them to make good choices as to what to stock for their customers. All they say is 'put this on your shelf, it's great'. No sneak peak, no demo, no nothing. And the retailer says:

What shelf?? My shelves are full of mediocre games that my customers don't really want. All the ones that they do want are OOP because the publishers didn't make enough copies! I'm losing money because I can't get copies of games my customers want.

I hear this over and over from the owner of my FLGS.

Onto Eclipse. If the retailers and distributors had done their homework!! Honestly. How are they supposed to do that?? Eclipse pretty much came out of nowhere and by the time people started finding out how good it was it was sold out! I told my FLGS about the game about a month and a half ago. They couldn't get any. And now they have to wait until May.

That's the other problem retailers have. They find out a game is good but it's OOP. It won't be available for 4 months. In 4 months the next "hot" game is out. Is there still demand for the previous hot game?? Do they forgo putting the current available hot game on the shelf so they make sure they have room for all the previous "hot" games that they have on pre-order from their distributor?? They only have so much room and so much available capital.

So there you have it, classic chicken and egg syndrome. Publishers wait for preorders from distributors. Distributors wait for preorders from retailers and retailers wait for preorders from customers. No one has a clue about how good the game is so they are ALL waiting for someone else to make the first move. But when someone does finally make a move the system is way to slow to react. Everyone ends up standing around with no game in their hands. If there ever was an example of a disfunctional supply chain, this is it!
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:14 am
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Charles Bishop
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Hi,

Great article. We are running a Toy and Game Expo in Australia www.toyandgameexpo.com.au . We think Kick Starter is great and we will potentially for 2013 setup a kickstarter booth. Just to be clear, we are not a retailer as core business - others will handle that at the Expo.

The idea we have is that we invest at a reasonable financial level in some of the games that send you say 10-20 copies. If we do this with four different games, we can cover the cost of our investment, have a booth at our expo for Australian players to try games they may not see anywhere else and support game publishers to get their games up.

The main issue is we will need to invest in games which have a production time that completes in a safe margin to ship games to Australia.

Seems a win win to me.

Thanks,

Charles
 
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:15 am
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M. S.
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Like it or not, more publishers will be using Kickstarter for more games in the years to come, both for off-the-wall projects that might have a seemingly small audience and for otherwise "normal" games that you'd expect to see available through all the regular outlets anyway. As for what those titles will be, watch this space for details!


I'm all for established publishers using Kick Starter as their pre-order system or to augment their pre-order sales.. as long as they offer a discount for pre-ordering. None of this Joe Schmoo selling you Homebrew: The Hype at MSRP or more and he'll even throw in limited edition a T-shirt.. pass.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:15 am
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Ryan Jones
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So, instead of (or even in addition to) foisting the risk of producing a game onto the customers, the publisher is also foisting the "responsibility" of pre-ordering "enough" copies onto the customers instead of the distributors and retailers? Neither of these make kick-starter "bad", but I still won't pay for a game I cannot have unless condition X, Y, and Z are met, where I don't have control over any of them. But then I get "punished" because I didn't commit beforehand, or didn't commit enough beforehand, by not receiving the KS only promotions.

KS presents pros and cons, and what those pros and cons are different based on what your role is in the release process of that game. I used kick-starter for D-Day Dice, but a most other projects, I just feel like "let me know when release is imminent, then I'll consider spending".
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:16 am
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B&N also carries a handful of different Munchkin standalone games. Matt Morgan at MTV Geek interviewed B&N reps in October 2011 about their approach to game selection, and one said, "I'm continued to be blown away by Munchkin." That same article explained that B&N reps rushed to get Fantasy Flight's Civilization board game on shelves in time for the 2011 holiday season, and the game sold out and was reordered. With "at least 3 copies in each of [the] 'A' stores" and 450 'A' stores in the B&N chain, at least 1,350 copies of a complicated hobby game were sold at MSRP to the public at large. B&N also carries (and presumably sells) Gears of War, Agricola, 7 Wonders, Arkham Horror, Days of Steam, Empire Builder, and other titles normally thought of as fairly involved and designed for hobby gamers.


Whoever is doing the ordering for B&N is doing their homework and bringing the niche into the mainstream. It appears what sells well for the niche is also good for big box stores which may be why Target is starting to carry more non pedestrian titles (Though I beleive that because Target is a Minneapolis based retail chain they are a bit biased and carry a few FFG titles to test the waters more)..

I am not sure if this is typical for all B&N across the country, but in the Twin Cities area you see far more selection than those you have listed above.

Agricola, gears of war, mansions of madness, Survive escape from atlantis, Dixit, etc. are frequently seen at the B&N here to name a few.
I no longer see many if any queen games releases though. I recall everyone and their brothers taking those 50% off coupons and buying games from B&N and I heard that Queen Games were not supposed to be part of that but many got sold in that anyways.

Perhaps Queen games pulled a "Games Workshop" ("We dont do sales as we are the porsche of our niche industry") and no longer allows B&N to carry their items? I used to see Alhambra and Fresco among a few others there.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:45 am
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Was in the local Target store and found they had the following games on its shelves:

Settlers of Catan: Gallery Edition
Rune Age
Lord of the Rings
Deadwood
Zooloretto
Munchkin
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:08 am
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Daniel Kearns
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[q="LordHellfury"]
Quote:

Agricola, gears of war, mansions of madness, Survive escape from atlantis, Dixit, etc. are frequently seen at the B&N here to name a few.


I saw all of these titles in our B&N Bloomington, IN.

Mansions of Madness? Agricola? I was like, where am I?
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:24 am
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Travis Worthington
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Eric - great write up.

I know for me that the interest expressed in the kickstarter for Flash Point: Fire Rescue not only meant I dramatically increased the print run quantity over my initial plans but I was also able to professionally print an expansion (Flash Point: Fire Rescue Urban Structures) at the same time.

I would add a fourth benefit of Kickstarter - the higher margin direct sales allow publishers to invest in marketing, not just on BGG but in more mainstream outlets like facebook and others. My marketing attracted the attention of big stores, and as a result both Flash Point and The Resistance have been in the hands of the B&N and Target game buyers - who by the way are very knowledgeable about the industry and focused on providing good gaming experiences for their customers.

Toy Fair certainly had a buzz for games breaking into more mainstream retail in 2012. Ultimately will need the sales figures in these stores for the trend to continue.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:28 am
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I was in a B&N (standing next to a copy of Sid Meier's Civilization: The Board Game and asked two sales people if they had any other board games. The responses - "we don't sell board games." Likely a one off, but....

Thanks for this article.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:46 am
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Asmodee finally did this with Jungle Speed, and the result is that game appearing in mainstream outlets across the country and more copies being sold in the U.S. in three months than in the previous ten years.

Hearing things like this always disturbs me... I guess it's partly that the big retailers have so much influence, and partly that products like hobby games are so unknown to the general public. It just always amazes me that the best advertising is merely being placed on a store shelf!
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:02 am
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Labyrinth: The War On Terror is historically inaccurate & politically biased. It's the one popular game that violates BGG's requirements to keep politics out of gen. discussion. And yet it receives special treatment =US-centric views of this site.
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Orangemoose wrote:
I was in a B&N (standing next to a copy of Sid Meier's Civilization: The Board Game and asked two sales people if they had any other board games. The responses - "we don't sell board games." Likely a one off, but....

Thanks for this article.


More a statement about book store clerks in today's retail environment than a statement about B&N's approach to board games.

In the 90s I worked for a small independent book store. We were expected to read Publisher's Weekly during slow periods and study up on what was coming out. We had to know not just books of all kinds, but also about the ones soon to be released.

In the 80s I worked in the electronics department of Service Merchandise. We'd actually be tested on our knowledge of the cameras, stereos, etc.

Today I walk into a book store or a store like Best Buy and I know more than the clerks. Not that it's that hard!

It's a reflection of what the consumers wanted - lowest price. Service went out the window. Retailers need warm bodies now. Brains are extra and they can't afford to pay for them.
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  • Edited Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:17 am
  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:16 am
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What did you do with the proceeds from the Revolutionary Lemonade Stand?
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LordHellfury wrote:
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B&N also carries a handful of different Munchkin standalone games. Matt Morgan at MTV Geek interviewed B&N reps in October 2011 about their approach to game selection, and one said, "I'm continued to be blown away by Munchkin." That same article explained that B&N reps rushed to get Fantasy Flight's Civilization board game on shelves in time for the 2011 holiday season, and the game sold out and was reordered. With "at least 3 copies in each of [the] 'A' stores" and 450 'A' stores in the B&N chain, at least 1,350 copies of a complicated hobby game were sold at MSRP to the public at large. B&N also carries (and presumably sells) Gears of War, Agricola, 7 Wonders, Arkham Horror, Days of Steam, Empire Builder, and other titles normally thought of as fairly involved and designed for hobby gamers.


Whoever is doing the ordering for B&N is doing their homework and bringing the niche into the mainstream. It appears what sells well for the niche is also good for big box stores which may be why Target is starting to carry more non pedestrian titles (Though I beleive that because Target is a Minneapolis based retail chain they are a bit biased and carry a few FFG titles to test the waters more)..


Isn't this really back to the future? I seem to remember lots of hobby games in big retail establishments in the 1970s and early 1980s.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:28 am
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soosy wrote:
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Asmodee finally did this with Jungle Speed, and the result is that game appearing in mainstream outlets across the country and more copies being sold in the U.S. in three months than in the previous ten years.

Hearing things like this always disturbs me... I guess it's partly that the big retailers have so much influence, and partly that products like hobby games are so unknown to the general public. It just always amazes me that the best advertising is merely being placed on a store shelf!


The best advertising is games being played.

The second best is boxes on shelves.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:10 am
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This was a great read. I love seeing more mainstream games hit traditional big retail establishments. And I absolutely agree with your 3 Kickstarter fears.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:38 am
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Those damn FLGS attempting to undermine the entire hobby game market for their own selfish reasons! Blame it on the retailers. Seriously! I can't believe you wrote this! Are the retailers supposed to preorder every game?? All retailers have to go on is generally a little blurb in a catalog from their distributor or from a phone call from their distributor. They don't have time to dig through BGG to figure out what might be a hot game months in advance of a release. I'd put the blame squarely on the publishers. They provide no meaningful information to the retail chain that would allow them to make good choices as to what to stock for their customers. All they say is 'put this on your shelf, it's great'. No sneak peak, no demo, no nothing.


We talked for about an hour, there's nowhere we say it's the fault of anybody, or if it is, it's the fault of everyone. It's just the way it is, nothing bad and we all have to live with the situation. Everybody have restriction on different levels, money, timing, space, staff...and everybody have to take risk on different levels too.

I really think it's only the starts of something bigger for our hobby, and lets be honest, our side of the industry (speciality board games) is pretty new compare to the rest of the industry. So we all need to improve on every aspect.

Who knows, maybe next time Eric will wrote about how it's hard for stores on another subject. And again, it won't be the fault of anybody, or everybody at the same time. And it won't be that bad, just the way it is at the moment.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:03 am
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One of the highlights of this article for me was it gave me a reason to look up the Jersey Shore Trivia Game entry here at BGG. Along with one rating (a 1) and no comments, there was a lone post in its forum, inquiring whether the game would be at Essen and what promos it would offer. I laughed.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:05 am
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Blue Steel wrote:
One of the highlights of this article for me was it gave me a reason to look up the Jersey Shore Trivia Game entry here at BGG.

Hotness, here we come!

aldaryn wrote:
Eric, not only is this a really informative article, I just wanted to add that I really like your writing style in general. It's very witty and classy, without being verbose. Keep it up.

Thanks much, Derek and others, for the kind words.

alkaiser wrote:
Those damn FLGS attempting to undermine the entire hobby game market for their own selfish reasons! Blame it on the retailers. Seriously! I can't believe you wrote this! Are the retailers supposed to preorder every game?? All retailers have to go on is generally a little blurb in a catalog from their distributor or from a phone call from their distributor. They don't have time to dig through BGG to figure out what might be a hot game months in advance of a release. I'd put the blame squarely on the publishers. They provide no meaningful information to the retail chain that would allow them to make good choices as to what to stock for their customers.

I agree that publishers could certainly provide better and more detailed information on their upcoming games, especially to those who cover game releases on sites like this one. Ideally all publishers would submit game listings themselves so that the information is as accurate and complete as possible. Maybe someday. That said....

alkaiser wrote:
Onto Eclipse. If the retailers and distributors had done their homework!! Honestly. How are they supposed to do that?? Eclipse pretty much came out of nowhere and by the time people started finding out how good it was it was sold out! I told my FLGS about the game about a month and a half ago. They couldn't get any. And now they have to wait until May.

There's this site you might have heard about – an online game database that allows people to thumb upcoming games, a database that compiles a preview of titles appearing at the giant and influential annual game convention in Essen, Germany, a preview on which Eclipse gathered more thumbs than any other title.

Some FLGS owners do indeed use this site to research upcoming releases and anticipate interest. I hate to pull out Myriad Games yet again as the primo example of such stores, but owner Dan Yarrington is on top of everything, gets stuff that's hard to find, deeply stocks titles that he anticipates will be tough to find in the long run, contacts customers to find out whether they want this upcoming expansion or that game by a designer whom the customer likes, and otherwise does everything possible to stay on top of the market. (While visiting friends near my old home in New Hampshire this week, I picked up Hanabi & Ikebana at Myriad's Salem location. Two copies left in stock!)

By comparison, in December 2011 at one local store near my new home near Raleigh, North Carolina I emailed them to preorder Hawaii and Nefarious. (Forgot to buy Nefarious at Spiel – oops!) The store responded that it couldn't find out anything about Nefarious and Hawaii wasn't out yet. I responded, "Duh! That's why I'm preordering Hawaii. It's not out yet! As for Nefarious, here's the link on BGG and here's the situation with the game."

Essentially I had to tell this store about these games and force my preorders on it. Too many stores function this same way – making the customers do the work for themselves. Ideally retailers would make customers aware of upcoming games and solicit preorders from them ahead of time, perhaps offering a discount for cash up front to insure good cash flow while also getting an idea of what other customers might want. This order model is standard in comic book stores, with customers reserving books ahead of time to receive a discount on those books, but almost unheard of in game stores, as far as I know.

And speaking of preorders:

bitva wrote:
So, instead of (or even in addition to) foisting the risk of producing a game onto the customers, the publisher is also foisting the "responsibility" of pre-ordering "enough" copies onto the customers instead of the distributors and retailers?

Not at all. A publisher will use Kickstarter sales information to determine how many copies of a game to produce. As you suggest, you might be "punished" by the game not being available later, but that's the risk you as a potential buyer take by not committing to something ahead of time. Publishers (and distributors and retailers) take a risk when they produce (buy) games because they might not sell what they have in stock. No one is wrong for being conservative in what they preorder/produce/buy, but everyone needs to accept the possible outcomes of their actions, one of which is, in Alan Kaiser's words, "Everyone ... standing around with no game in their hands."

Well, yeah, that's what happens in retail everywhere with hot toys, hot books, hot electronic products, and many other items. If you as a gamer don't want to take that risk for game A, you need to preorder. If you as a publisher/retailer/distributor don't want to take that risk, you need to figure out a way to solicit preorders from customers. (Or you can be Target, Walmart, etc. and have oodles of cash to fund the acquisition of games without worrying about whether they turn over in a month or two. Okay, you probably can't be Walmart.)

T Worthington wrote:
I know for me that the interest expressed in the kickstarter for Flash Point: Fire Rescue not only meant I dramatically increased the print run quantity over my initial plans but I was also able to professionally print an expansion (Flash Point: Fire Rescue Urban Structures) at the same time.

I would add a fourth benefit of Kickstarter - the higher margin direct sales allow publishers to invest in marketing, not just on BGG but in more mainstream outlets like facebook and others. My marketing attracted the attention of big stores, and as a result both Flash Point and The Resistance have been in the hands of the B&N and Target game buyers - who by the way are very knowledgeable about the industry and focused on providing good gaming experiences for their customers.

Thanks for the additional data point, Travis!

soosy wrote:
Quote:
Asmodee finally did this with Jungle Speed, and the result is that game appearing in mainstream outlets across the country and more copies being sold in the U.S. in three months than in the previous ten years.

Hearing things like this always disturbs me... I guess it's partly that the big retailers have so much influence, and partly that products like hobby games are so unknown to the general public. It just always amazes me that the best advertising is merely being placed on a store shelf!

And yet why wouldn't that be the best advertising (after personal experience and direct recommendation from a friend)? If people don't see it, why would they ever suspect it exists? I got that reaction all the time when random attendees to a game meetup would walk into my old game room. "Are these all games? I had no idea so many games even existed!" Sure, these games are all listed for sale at online stores, but only fanatics tend to visit them. If you want Joe Public to know about something, you have to put it where he's going to look for such a thing (which was on clearance at B&N after the 2011 holidays – alas, not every game will find its audience).
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:57 am
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While I think the latest sets of previews have potentially made it possible to gauge the Hotness of a given title - it's really ridiculously hard to dissect and analyze the whole list to figure out what to buy. We generated 200 videos from Spiel 2011 and I still can't keep all the new releases straight - oh yeah and there was 150 videos from 2010, not to mention the 100 or so from Nuremberg.

If a person runs a store - they couldspend a significant amount of time to try and figure out what to order, but in the end they are gonna get busy and maybe give up on researching what *might* sell and just order more of the stuff that already sells.

After all my rambling - I think the Gone Cardboard lists and Previews and GeekBuzz need some more visibility during the appropriate times so that some more educated guesses can be made during order time.
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  • Edited Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:25 am
  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:23 am
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Stephen Avery
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Good article. Well researched and written.

Thanks!

Steve"multiple Monikers"Avery
 
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:38 am
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First simply an amazing article Eric. Great points on all. It's amazing how we get so much loyalty to the FLGS and scour them for our games and yet we forget the vast selection that B&N often has (Although generally a bit overpriced for those of us who buy entirely too many games--- Thank the maker for those semi-frequent 50% off coupons)

As for Kickstarter, I think it will be an interesting story to keep an eye on for the foreseeable future b/c when something is so successful there is no telling where the business heads will take it. We could very well see more big companies using it for more mainstream games and I just wonder what will happen to the little guy. And will the perks for over funding still be as big (and widely used) when a huge company gets involved?


Aging One wrote:
Was in the local Target store and found they had the following games on its shelves:

Settlers of Catan: Gallery Edition
Rune Age
Lord of the Rings
Deadwood
Zooloretto
Munchkin


I was at Target last night and saw all of these and the Settlers Card game.

Quite amazed at how main stream the hobby has/is becoming. But I think that's a good thing for the industry/hobby as a whole.
 
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:41 am
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Isn't there a vast difference between joe public and hobby gamers that is playing games?

Joe Public might by a few thousand copies of Civ or Jungle Speed, but how many will just get played once and put on the shelf or never played at all?

I guess Eric touches on this by saying they don't obsess and whether they'll be scared off next year.

Nice article Eric.
 
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:35 pm
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LordHellfury wrote:


Whoever is doing the ordering for B&N is doing their homework and bringing the niche into the mainstream.


I'm not 100% certain in my memory, but I could have sworn in my B&N at least one of the games had a note on the shelf about it being ranked #whatever on BGG. It was good to see a call out to a great resource for games information.
 
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:49 pm
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alkaiser wrote:
So there you have it, classic chicken and egg syndrome. Publishers wait for preorders from distributors. Distributors wait for preorders from retailers and retailers wait for preorders from customers. No one has a clue about how good the game is so they are ALL waiting for someone else to make the first move. But when someone does finally make a move the system is way to slow to react. Everyone ends up standing around with no game in their hands.


It all starts with the customers then, yes? If we preorder, then the stores pass those on to the distributors and it all starts working.

So who can preorder? Not the general public. They have enough trouble knowing about games which have existed for years, they certainly will not be aware of games that do not exist yet. So, it must fall to the gamers.

Gamers have the opposite problem. We may know things are coming out, but we want GOOD games. Until there are reviews, a lot of us won't open our wallets. There are exceptions, when a game is from a well known designer for instance we are more willing, but it still reduces the numbers. Most of us want to wait and see, because there are a ton of games and out budgets won't allow us to get all the ones we want, so buying a stinker not only leaves us out of money but also we have missed the good game we COULD have bought instead.

This is where, to me, Kickstarter has its biggest problem. I'm more than happy to support a project if you can guarantee me that it's going to be a good game. But whereas "normal" release games are more likely to have reviews before the game is available due to debuting at a well known game show, etc... the Kickstarter games are often lacking in good ways for us to judge their quality. Many don't even post a rulebook. Let's see... Unknown designer, near total lack of information, seems like a high chance of being crap to me. The supporter perks don't help, they're just an obvious attempt to trick me into buying your crap game (just like they often are in the video game world). But then, if the game turns out to be good after all - by the time I find out and want to throw money at you, NOW I cannot have the bonus stuff anymore? Screw you, Kickstarter guy! First you want to rob me, now you won't sell to me. Have a nice life, I'm going over here to buy known-good games from a store.


We really need a better system than this.

There are only two ways out of the supply-chain problem.
1. Someone takes the risk of ordering games
2. Make a pre-order system that works

Nobody wants to be the one taking the risk. I feel that the stores are the natural ones to do this, but that requires them to know about upcoming games. Distributors are more aware of what's coming up, but maybe have less motive. Overall, prospects don't look good.

So how do we make a preorder system that works?

The only way it's going to work is if it can demonstrate the value of the product - ie, show us that it's a good game. Do that, make my investment in your game secure, and the money will appear. Seriously, it's as simple as that. As long as I know with very high certainty that I'm getting a good game, I have no no further reservations about buying your game with an up-front pledge.

So how do you do that? Reviews and open information, my friend. Post your rules, let me read them. Send copies out to people who will write reviews or do video reviews. Chicken Caesar is a good example of this, they took the step of sending a copy to Tom Vasel and getting him to do a video review. Now I know a ton more about the game and how it works than I ever would have gotten from a typical Kickstarter project.

Secondly, before I can know your game is any good, I need to know your game exists. Can't buy what I'm not aware of. This will also help solve the problem of not hearing about a project until too late and missing out on any bonus stuff. We need a better way to track boardgames on Kickstarter. That not only includes finding them and being aware when something new is listed, but also some way of separating the wheat from the chaff efficiently. Does something exist for that? If so, it needs to be better known too.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:53 pm
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Great read!

Talking about Jungle Speed... my six-year-old grand-daughter came over a couple weeks ago and I asked if she wanted to play a game. "Sure, GrandDougie", she replied. So we went to the game closet and she say Jungle Speed and asked for it by name, all excited.

In shock, I asked her where she heard the name... "TV", she replied. I broke the game out and she started telling me how to play the game! I asked if she had ever played it before and she said, "Nope, learned to play from TV".

So, Jungle Speed must also be getting mainstream advertisments during children's shows on TV.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:07 pm
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lfisher wrote:
Isn't there a vast difference between joe public and hobby gamers that is playing games?

Joe Public might by a few thousand copies of Civ or Jungle Speed, but how many will just get played once and put on the shelf or never played at all?


The geeks are the ones who play something once then move onto the next hotness. Joe Public will get more plays out of it since they only have a few games.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:03 pm
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Aldie wrote:
While I think the latest sets of previews have potentially made it possible to gauge the Hotness of a given title - it's really ridiculously hard to dissect and analyze the whole list to figure out what to buy. We generated 200 videos from Spiel 2011 and I still can't keep all the new releases straight - oh yeah and there was 150 videos from 2010, not to mention the 100 or so from Nuremberg.

If a person runs a store - they couldspend a significant amount of time to try and figure out what to order, but in the end they are gonna get busy and maybe give up on researching what *might* sell and just order more of the stuff that already sells.

After all my rambling - I think the Gone Cardboard lists and Previews and GeekBuzz need some more visibility during the appropriate times so that some more educated guesses can be made during order time.


I think what you're saying is:

1. The data is here to predict (before their release) which games may be hot
2. The data isn't organized in a way that makes that easy to see

Sounds like a great potential BGG feature - an algorithm to determine popularity very early, to help with ordering (and print run size). You could even charge retailers/publishers for access to that data, to help with the work of developing and maintaining it.

Hmmmmm, maybe you could even put the development of that feature on kickstarter - anyone who funds $20 and above gets a year of access to the new "hotness predictor".
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:23 pm
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Aldie wrote:
While I think the latest sets of previews have potentially made it possible to gauge the Hotness of a given title - it's really ridiculously hard to dissect and analyze the whole list to figure out what to buy. We generated 200 videos from Spiel 2011 and I still can't keep all the new releases straight - oh yeah and there was 150 videos from 2010, not to mention the 100 or so from Nuremberg.

If a person runs a store - they couldspend a significant amount of time to try and figure out what to order, but in the end they are gonna get busy and maybe give up on researching what *might* sell and just order more of the stuff that already sells.


I agree that this is what happens, but (with all due respect, as I've never run a business myself) this sounds like a horrible business model to me. Historically, companies that rest on their laurels fade away.

Yes, there are a lot of games out there. But many people need to be experts on a lot of items. I work for a medical device manufacturer, primarily developing error codes. We have over 20,000 on one machine, and we have probably about 100 employees who could tell you roughly what each one means just from its 6 character designation - some even could tell you how to fix it just from the code. 200 videos a year is a lot, but if your livelihood depended on it, it's not insurmountable. (And I do realize to whom I'm responding, here, but BGG's situation is very different from a retailer's.)

As for Eclipse...I think you could sell at least 1 or 2 copies of that in just about any FLGS even if the game was terrible. It's a space-themed 4X game that's allegedly playable in 3 hours, with good buzz from Essen, and a ton of plastic. SOMEONE is going to buy that if you put it in the front of the store (shelf space as advertising again). One LGS had a bunch of games on clearance around the holidays, including modern classics like Samurai and relatively new hotness like Luna and Olympos. I assume some of that is not knowing your own market, but if can armchair quarterback the store, I think a lot of it is their layout. Even the employees have a hard time finding specific games when I ask them, and they're located in a mall, so I would think (for example) a display toward the front with some kind of "as seen in the App Store" tie-in would move things like Samurai.

Now, my FLGS seems to be doing well at this. They had Eclipse available, at least a few copies, in December (so, first printing, right?) They treat their customers well and have been in business a very long time (their ownership changed fairly recently as well, but the new owners seem to understand the business side well).

As far as picturing demand...I used to work in a small call center, and the CFO used to be able to reliably predict, often with a single-digit margin of error, the number of calls we'd get in a day. Why? He understood that part of the industry and had a lot of data available. There are a LOT of data on the board game industry online.

So, yes, it's a lot of work. Yes, it's time consuming. And that's exactly why I've chosen not to stake my livelihood on running a business in this industry. But, for those who have, I'm often left scratching my head at how little it seems they understand their own line of work, or generally business sense.
 
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  • Posted Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:43 pm
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dboeren wrote:

So how do we make a preorder system that works?


There was a system that had potential. Tasty Minstrel had a neat offer when they released Eminent Domain. Stores could sign up for a demo copy package that included one copy of the game and however many copies of the game you wanted to preorder. When the game was published they air shipped the demo copies to the stores that had signed up. The rest of the games took the slow boat from China. So the stores had this great way of showing off the game and then taking preorders. I signed up this store for the program and ran the demos. We sold the 6 copies that we had preordered in one day when I demoed the game at a con. Sounds like a wonderful system right?? Well, that's where the entire thing fell apart. Tasty Minstrel dropped the ball. The games didn't arrive for MONTHS. By the time the games came in and the preorder customers were contacted they had either already purchased the game elsewhere or were no longer interested. All of the preorders were no cash up front because the store had no idea when the games would arrive and didn't feel like removing cash from their customers for an indefinite amount of time. So, a great idea that ultimately failed because of poor execution. Guess how likely this store is to participate in a similar program now?!?!



As to using BGG to research good games . . . now why didn't I think of that!! Because it's not that simple. Most game stores don't have a customer base that consists entirely of BGG regulars. Most BGG regulars buy their games online not at game stores. This store regularly gets the comment 'why don't you always have the top 20 games at BGG in stock?'. The simple answer is - they don't sell. Some of them sell but certainly not all of them. BGG can help but it's not the entire answer and for stores like this it doesn't even get you half way there. Any retail store has to serve the customers that walk in the door. Not some theoretical customers that could potentially come in and buy a product but the actual people that shop at the store.



Next we have time. Aldie is right, there's too much info out there for the average game store owner to digest. Let's use 200 videos as an example. Let's assume 15 minutes a pop. That's 50 hours of videos right there. Just videos! Two a day, six days a week - that's an entire month right there and that doesn't count keeping track of OOP games, release dates, preorders etc. Game stores don't have lots of extra money floating around, they are run fairly lean. All this extra research takes time and that means you either cut the time employees are doing things like running events and helping customers (i.e. the things that actually bring in money) and shift them to doing research which may or may not bring in more dollars because that research may or may not apply to your customer base.
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  • Posted Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:41 am
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When this gamer is "being negligent" about placing preorders, it's because I haven't had a chance to play the game, yet. I am reluctant to plop down money on a high-cost game like Eclipse if I haven't played it yet. I guess some guys take the gamble and then trade or sell them away, but that's not my mindset.

I think if publishers could find ways to get gamers playing their games in advance of the release date, it would go a long way towards meaningful preorder numbers. I know, it's kind of a chicken-and-egg problem.

Oh well, like a lot of others, I sit and wait for the next printing shake

I just read the post above mine. Now that is an excellent way to help game sales!--if they can get the follow-through right. Although it doesn't help them compute their print-run sizes.
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  • Edited Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:18 pm
  • Posted Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:21 am
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Jeremy Wolford
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alkaiser wrote:
As to using BGG to research good games . . . now why didn't I think of that!! Because it's not that simple. Most game stores don't have a customer base that consists entirely of BGG regulars. Most BGG regulars buy their games online not at game stores. This store regularly gets the comment 'why don't you always have the top 20 games at BGG in stock?'. The simple answer is - they don't sell. Some of them sell but certainly not all of them. BGG can help but it's not the entire answer and for stores like this it doesn't even get you half way there. Any retail store has to serve the customers that walk in the door. Not some theoretical customers that could potentially come in and buy a product but the actual people that shop at the store.


Of course. I know you're not only responding to me, but I indicated that it'd be problematic for stores to only order the new BGG hotness. What BGG does have is a ton of information ABOUT the games. If your customers don't like heavy Euros, don't order Ora et Labora. If they don't like big box, heavily themed expensive games, don't order Eclipse. Unless you have no idea what type of things your customers want (at which point I would argue THAT'S your problem), you should be able to make a judgement call and be right more often than not (not 100% of the time, of course).

alkaiser wrote:
Next we have time. Aldie is right, there's too much info out there for the average game store owner to digest. Let's use 200 videos as an example. Let's assume 15 minutes a pop. That's 50 hours of videos right there. Just videos! Two a day, six days a week - that's an entire month right there and that doesn't count keeping track of OOP games, release dates, preorders etc. Game stores don't have lots of extra money floating around, they are run fairly lean. All this extra research takes time and that means you either cut the time employees are doing things like running events and helping customers (i.e. the things that actually bring in money) and shift them to doing research which may or may not bring in more dollars because that research may or may not apply to your customer base.


Again, you don't have to actually watch them all. If it were me, I'd look at a GeekList (or something equivalent) with the games that were featured at whatever event. From those 200 games, pick X that look like they'd be a hit with my customer base, where X is derived from the amount of time I have to research. For those, then, I might watch the videos, or look at other materials, or divide them up among my employees to look into during their downtime (every game store I've ever been in has had some downtime...if a customer comes in, you pause the video or stop reading for a few minutes and help them), or something.

Even just being that knowledgeable about your stock should help your sales. I literally had this phone call once from a friend:

"Hey, should I buy Stone Age?"

"Um...well, I've never played it, but you'd probably like it. I think it's like a less complicated Caylus, but with dice. It's supposed to be good."

"OK, sounds good."

He did like it, quite a bit, and ended up buying a copy for his brother later. He trusts me to make recommendations for him because I spend too much time on here and I know a lot about games. This goes back to what a poster above was saying about B&N employees not knowing anything about their inventory...I've honestly found that I know more about games than most (not all) LGS clerks I've met as well. When I first got into the hobby, I asked for recommendations at a few places, and didn't get any from some people, others said Carcassonne: Hunters and Gatherers when I said I liked Carcassonne, and the one guy who did give me anything talked for about 20 minutes (continued rattling in great detail even after we'd picked up a game and said "this one sounds good"), prompting my wife to vow never to walk into that store again. A lot of the employees at my FLGS do have relationships with regular customers since they host weekly board game meetups - if they did put in the legwork (or someone did it for them, and gave them a "cheat sheet"), they could recommend games for customers based on what they like. Win-win.

It's not easy, but running a business is a LOT of work, whether it's a board game store or anything else. Almost every business owner I know works 70-80 hours a week - usually because they need to stay ahead of the market in whatever their field is. Munchkin expansions and Ticket to Ride will only sustain you indefinitely if you have a good system for perpetually attracting new customers, but now that those are starting to appear in places like B&N, I think if you run a game store, you have to start looking at how you can better stock things for your existing customers.
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  • Posted Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:37 pm
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Eric Sokolowsky
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I was one of those who bought Civilization from Barnes and Noble, though I didn't pay MSRP for it (I had a coupon and a gift card).
 
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  • Posted Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:18 am
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Tim Roediger
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Quote:
Hi,

Great article. We are running a Toy and Game Expo in Australia www.toyandgameexpo.com.au . We think Kick Starter is great and we will potentially for 2013 setup a kickstarter booth. Just to be clear, we are not a retailer as core business - others will handle that at the Expo.

The idea we have is that we invest at a reasonable financial level in some of the games that send you say 10-20 copies. If we do this with four different games, we can cover the cost of our investment, have a booth at our expo for Australian players to try games they may not see anywhere else and support game publishers to get their games up.

The main issue is we will need to invest in games which have a production time that completes in a safe margin to ship games to Australia.

Seems a win win to me.

Thanks,

Charles


Hey Charles,

I've been toying around with ideas for Kickstarter, but it is US only at present. Pozible is the Australian version, but I'm not sure there will be many backers for a game project on pozible.com when people have never heard of the platform before.

Hmmm.

Tim
 
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  • Posted Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:26 am
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Darrell Hanning
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Mr Skeletor wrote:
lfisher wrote:
Isn't there a vast difference between joe public and hobby gamers that is playing games?

Joe Public might by a few thousand copies of Civ or Jungle Speed, but how many will just get played once and put on the shelf or never played at all?


The geeks are the ones who play something once then move onto the next hotness. Joe Public will get more plays out of it since they only have a few games.


On average, I think I'd have to disagree.

Joe Public - on average - is going to take one look at the rules for Civ, and sell the game at Joe's next garage sale, unplayed. If Joe's younger children get hold of the game, the pieces will all get punched out, and a good number will get lost, before the game goes up at the garage sale.

Will one in twenty Joe Publics actually learn the game, enjoy it, and keep it? Yes, but probably only one in twenty.

This is where getting heavier games into the mainline distribution system looks to promise great rewards - just as it did with wargames in the seventies and early eighties - only to have it die on the vine within five or so years. Retail outlets have bean-counters pulling the strings, and shelf-life is a huge no-no in that model.
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  • Edited Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:08 pm
  • Posted Tue Feb 21, 2012 3:59 pm
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Mark Montgomery
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Hear, hear!
I want to find a good resource for finding release dates for board games, in a centralized structure. I liked the Gone Cardboard list back on boardgamenews.com, before it folded (I may have been influenced by my love of the old Gone Gold website and the Gone Console [now Gaming Trend] sub-site I used to work with). If BGG has continued Gone Cardboard, I don't know where to find it...it should be available in the drop-down menus at the top of the page (in my opinion).

Thanks, Eric, for a great article with insightful information about why game companies tend to be so cautious in their print runs.
--Aahz
 
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  • Posted Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:38 am
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Alan Kaiser
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Aahz wrote:
If BGG has continued Gone Cardboard, I don't know where to find it...


http://www.boardgamegeek.com/gonecardboard
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  • Posted Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:48 am
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Steve Duff
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Aahz wrote:
If BGG has continued Gone Cardboard, I don't know where to find it...it should be available in the drop-down menus at the top of the page (in my opinion).


It is. "Browse".
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  • Posted Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:11 pm
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Mark Montgomery
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Thanks for pointing out what I've missed

Enjoy!
--Aahz
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:52 am
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